Waterscape maps

[welshmike]

I used them all the time to plan trips etc in conjunction with canal plan AC. The zoom function was easy to use and once at OS level it was easy to drag and scroll along a selected canal.

[MartinClark]

I'd be interested if feedback were posted here rather than just directly to Paul, for the benefit of anyone else who might be considering doing some online waterway mapping...

Good idea! That would make a useful addition to the Waterways World web site, Richard!

[fender]

Quite, but if you remember, the whole reason I started this thread was because the old maps were interactive in a good way, and the new ones aren't. Maybe you never used them.

 

I prefer the old maps. Simple. It doesnt mean that I appreciate the use of the word interactive its just a term to describe something that isnt what it is made out to be. Interactivity has to be better than what is being propounded at the moment, and if Waterscape wants to have interactivity they'd be best waiting until the technology is more reliable and can deliver a greater sense of realism with a more realistic level of information.

 

In my personal view, despite their rather primitive presentation, there's infintely more fun in using Google Satelite to explore the canals. It would be so much better if this and Google streets and other data could be used to merge information and be able to bring up details, plus a multi-directional VR machine to see whats exactly there at ground level (or boater's eye level) including going into chandleries to see whats on offer, shops or supermarkets to see where particular products are located (and in fact to inspect and possibly order products and have them ready for when I get there!) to see where the elsan station, the pump out or the water points are exactly. Yes I've gone off the point but as I've been designing & running websites since 1997 I should know where I am coming from.

[stickleback]

Ok, that's interesting to me. The data we get is from BW's own GIS data source or sometimes where it has been supplied by a owner (say of a marina). Would you mind clicking on the offending structures and replying back with the functional locations of the structures and where you think they should be. I can then pass it back to the GIS team and they can validate it.

 

Paul

 

 

 

Hi. I've sent you a message about this - hope it helps!

[MaryP]

Yes, that seems a good idea.

I'll still respond if people email me, but putting the feedback here might also help stimulate ideas and requests, and pass useful information around.

 

Paul

 

Do I assume from this comment that the google maps are here to stay, and there is no chance of going back to OS? It sounds like the majority of us prefer OS (those that have commented that is!).

[Machpoint005]

OS maps are probably the best all-round maps for anything involving making progress at walking pace (for those of us who can actually read maps, of course). That's probably why they are more expensive to license for specific uses. It would be interesting if BW could confirm that's the reason for the change, though.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Theoretically British Waterways, as a Government body, should get OS maps for free.

 

In the early days of Waterscape, when the site was selling (not many) holidays and (not much) advertising, OS classed it as "commercial" and therefore required payment. But now that side of things has sensibly been removed, the maps should be free again.

[paulmorgan]

@Mary. Yes, but I have had a look and it seems that you can apply custom tiles sets to the maps .i.e. we could look to overlay OS map tiles for the areas that we coverage (the UK). I will do some more investigation on this, but this might be the solution.

 

If we enable the satellite maps as well then that would be those supplied by google / teleatlas. Is there a demand for these?

 

@Mach

Not really a major driver, a small consideration. However, we also use the codepoint product (to tie postcodes to an easting / northing) so we would still be charged by the OS. If the tile overlays are viable then we should look to enable these as soon as we can resource time to do it. The bigger problem was that of backward compatibility with flash. In version 10 which has been released for a while now, the functionality that drove the maps, breaks. We were receiving complaints that the maps had disappeared for some reason from those that had already upgraded - also map users like yourselves. Both myself and Richard had investigated some of the other problems with the old maps and had not found a satisfactory answer and then this occurred. Additionally, we also get the benefit, if we wanted it, of the other map types(e.g. satellite and terrain) and the continued feature development of the library that drives google maps rather than having to support one ourselves.

 

@Richard

I should hopefully be meeting the person responsible within BW for the pan govt. agreement with the OS. They still have us a commercial entity - AIUI. So, if we can get this corrected, it would be a step in the right direction.

 

Paul

[dor]

If you want to look at OS maps (at 1:50K), the whole country can be viewed here:

 

http://maps.the-hug.net/index.php

 

One advantage of this over many of the map viewers is that you can see the map almost full screen. You can print them out as well. Not sure how this site gets round the OS licencing!

Edited March 5, 2009 by dor

[magpie patrick]

I have resisted wading in as I don't use waterscape that much but as a professional who uses, ney is dependent on good mapping to do my job I would be cautious of google maps. The number of staff who come to me with reports that are factually incorrect and the error can be traced back to the use of google maps is rather worrying. Yes the OS occasionally get it wrong but the worst I've seen is an obviously wrong road number. whereas Google Maps can quite literally lead you down a blind alley in some urban areas. The Feeder canal is missing in Bristol for example, yet it is the main waterway in to the floating harbour.

 

I'd be very cautious about using Google maps for this sort of application, the errors may be minor on a global scale, but some poor sod will get off a boat or out of a car and be stuffed.

[Machpoint005]

@Mary. Yes, but I have had a look and it seems that you can apply custom tiles sets to the maps .i.e. we could look to overlay OS map tiles for the areas that we coverage (the UK). I will do some more investigation on this, but this might be the solution.

 

If we enable the satellite maps as well then that would be those supplied by google / teleatlas. Is there a demand for these?

 

@Mach

Not really a major driver, a small consideration. However, we also use the codepoint product (to tie postcodes to an easting / northing) so we would still be charged by the OS. If the tile overlays are viable then we should look to enable these as soon as we can resource time to do it. The bigger problem was that of backward compatibility with flash. In version 10 which has been released for a while now, the functionality that drove the maps, breaks. We were receiving complaints that the maps had disappeared for some reason from those that had already upgraded - also map users like yourselves. Both myself and Richard had investigated some of the other problems with the old maps and had not found a satisfactory answer and then this occurred. Additionally, we also get the benefit, if we wanted it, of the other map types(e.g. satellite and terrain) and the continued feature development of the library that drives google maps rather than having to support one ourselves.

 

@Richard

I should hopefully be meeting the person responsible within BW for the pan govt. agreement with the OS. They still have us a commercial entity - AIUI. So, if we can get this corrected, it would be a step in the right direction.

 

Paul

 

Fairy Nuff, Paul. Thanks for the explanations.

[adam1uk]

Google Maps can quite literally lead you down a blind alley in some urban areas. The Feeder canal is missing in Bristol for example, yet it is the main waterway in to the floating harbour.

 

I'd be very cautious about using Google maps for this sort of application, the errors may be minor on a global scale, but some poor sod will get off a boat or out of a car and be stuffed.

 

The Lapworth Link is also missing, which makes it a bit difficult getting between the GU and the Stratford.

[MartinClark]

If you want to look at OS maps (at 1:50K), the whole country can be viewed here:

 

http://maps.the-hug.net/index.php

 

One advantage of this over many of the map viewers is that you can see the map almost full screen. You can print them out as well. Not sure how this site gets round the OS licencing!

There is some sort of map demo here: www.maptasm.com where you can see the map at even nearer to full screen.

 

By using the wheel mouse, you can zoom in or out using various levels of mapping (up to 1:50000). So, although it starts off centred on West London, you can quickly zoom out, re-centre by dragging the mouse and zoom in again. It's amazingly quick compared with some other map sites.

 

[Edited to add: Maptasm.com also has a sort of street atlas mapping at a closer scale than 1:50000.]

Edited March 5, 2009 by MartinClark

[Richard Fairhurst]

Paul - switching between Ordnance Survey and Google tiles isn't a trivial matter. You'll have to reproject the OS tiles from the National Grid projection to the "spherical Mercator" that Google (and Yahoo, Microsoft, OpenStreetMap etc.) use. But I can show you how to do this, using a wondrous piece of software called GDAL - I had to do it for the New Popular Edition tiles in OpenStreetMap. You know my address.

 

It'd be excellent if Waterscape let you switch between reprojected Ordnance Survey and OpenStreetMap - and Google Maps if you must, though if you have OS and OSM, I wouldn't really see the need! Better to use OpenLayers for that than the Google Maps API, though, and I guess you're already wedded to the latter.

 

Martin - heh, yes, I know the chap (Nick Black) who did maptasm.com. It's a very simple application of Ordnance Survey's OpenSpace API - essentially just like Google Maps for your own site, but from the OS. The lovely fast code behind it is a slightly adapted version of OpenLayers, a JavaScript library for embedding maps on websites. Unfortunately it (as with most OS products) comes hedged with licensing restrictions and isn't available for commercial use, or Governmental, or for anything above a very strict tile access limit.

Edited March 5, 2009 by Richard Fairhurst

[stickleback]

There is some sort of map demo here: www.maptasm.com where you can see the map at even nearer to full screen.

 

By using the wheel mouse, you can zoom in or out using various levels of mapping (up to 1:50000). So, although it starts off centred on West London, you can quickly zoom out, re-centre by dragging the mouse and zoom in again. It's amazingly quick compared with some other map sites.

 

 

Thanks for this one - I've added it to favourites!

 

Stickleback

[paulmorgan]

@Richard. Very kind of you. Thanks for the heads up and I'm sure I'll be in touch about this.

I / we are not wedded to google per se, as you know when we have spoken previously, I think using mapstraction is the ultimate way to go, so we can eventually sub-in different map types. But you also know that time is at a premium here. I guess OSM for the cycling routes?

 

We did look at the O/S offering as well, and yes it would be good, except for the permissions as you rightly identify... it just seems so messed up that not even those already in a pan govt agreement cannot use the product.. aaargh!

 

WRT to the middle wheel scrolling, that can be enabled easily in the google API if there's a demand for it. I spoke with Mike (welshMike?) who also wanted to be able to click and center from wherever you clicked on a map. Again, doable, I'd just need to check what other events get fired on a mouseclick.

 

thanks,

paul

[MartinClark]

@Richard.

 

You've been spending too much time on Twitter!

[stuart]

Theres always the maps that my website publishes !

 

http://www.waterexplorer.co.uk/gmaps/inter...vecanalmap.aspx

[kerching]

Theres always the maps that my website publishes !

 

http://www.waterexplorer.co.uk/gmaps/inter...vecanalmap.aspx

 

Very good.

 

Consider yourself bookmarked young feller mi lad.

[stewey]

Theres always the maps that my website publishes !

 

http://www.waterexplorer.co.uk/gmaps/inter...vecanalmap.aspx

Well done, Stuart

 

The site has been bookmarked with great speed!

 

Keep up the good work.

 

Stewey