Waterscape maps

[adam1uk]

What on earth has happened to the canal maps on waterscape.com?

 

Before, they were excellent, highlighting the relevant waterway, allowing you to check locks and bridge numbers, and showing all sorts of useful information. Now, there's just a Google map which hardly shows the canal, let alone anything else. They surely can't think this is an improvement, can they?

Edited March 3, 2009 by adam1uk

[bottle]

Adam

 

Link, to the ones I think you want. http://www.waterscape.com/canals-and-rivers

 

Edit: when you have chosen the canal you require look for 'boaters guides' in the right hand column.

Edited March 3, 2009 by bottle

[kerching]

The new map is not a patch on the old one.

[nipper]

What on earth has happened to the canal maps on waterscape.com?

 

Before, they were excellent, highlighting the relevant waterway, allowing you to check locks and bridge numbers, and showing all sorts of useful information. Now, there's just a Google map which hardly shows the canal, let alone anything else. They surely can't think this is an improvement, can they?

 

 

http://www.waterscape.com/map/

 

Oh dear! Why do they have to change something that worked and was so good at doing it's job!

Probably somebody trying to improve his pension!

[MaryP]

I sent an email of complaint this morning! The boaters guide still doesn't show bridge numbers. These new maps do, but only when you get really close in. If you get really close in, the locks are floating midstream, and don't give the direction anymore.

 

I don't like it!

[paulmorgan]

http://www.waterscape.com/map/

 

Oh dear! Why do they have to change something that worked and was so good at doing it's job!

Probably somebody trying to improve his pension!

 

hi,

Not quite. We are changing and adding various parts as we go. I will be working on the waterways shortly and would like to add improvements incrementally. For instance, showing the flow from the head of the waterway and correctly indicating a waterway so it is is easier to see which waterway is which, when there are several in the viewport. I'd also like to render them in sections when zoomed in and at some point link them to stoppages so you'll be able to see when a stoppage has been called on a section, or at a functional location like a bridge or lock. These are just some ideas, if you have any then please do send them through.

 

With this version, if you hover or click on each structure when you zoom in, we display the functional location of that structure to help reference queries that come in from the public or within BW. We also show more services and attractions related to the waterways and fisheries, which didn't function very well in the older version. We also display different pieces of information at different zoom levels just as the old maps did - I used that as the basis for this implementation. We also now use the maps in different contexts such as on service providers pages, fishery and places to go pages so people can have a visual context to where something is located, and again, we'll be rolling them out on events pages where we can plot them from a postcode or easting / northing. We could then plot them onto the wider maps to give visitors more information. I guess you may want to have the map/satellite/terrain buttons so you can view areas differently?

 

We've also moved away from Flash as the delivery platform as we had backwards compatibility problems now that v.10 has been released. We can currently use the waterways plotted on the googlemap tiles in the same way that we did on the older versions - the older versions did plot the waterways where BW had geographical data of the chosen waterway of interest e.g. Oxford Canal or Grand Union Canal, but other waterways were those actually rendered onto the tiles supplied by the O/S. For area searches, waterways were rendered, but not labelled and the highlighted waterway was (according to feedback) confusing to people.

 

This implementation has only just been launched yesterday and I have a list of other people interested in the maps and give me feedback / criticism and suggestions for where to improve things for different groups e.g. boaters, cyclists and anglers. Please feel free to contact me and tell me where we're going wrong or suggestions that should be included on the maps - paul<dot>morgan<at>waterscape<dot>com

 

thanks,

paul

[paulmorgan]

I sent an email of complaint this morning! The boaters guide still doesn't show bridge numbers. These new maps do, but only when you get really close in. If you get really close in, the locks are floating midstream, and don't give the direction anymore.

 

I don't like it!

 

hi,

I'll ask the editor in the morning if they received it. The boaters guide uses the old system and the code that generates those is quite old now. It will be updated in time as well.

 

WRT to the locks. I guess we could resize the icons dependent upon zoom level to fill the waterway? There are other locks and bridges which plot just off the line of the waterway on the tiles. Once the waterways are rendered these may plot correctly over the waterway... or they may not, it depends upon the accuracy of the data that BW has collected. Either way, we could then look for really errant ones and fix any of those first.

 

The lock icon is something that could be looked at again. I need something that will work for both boaters and non boaters alike.

 

Thanks for the feedback.

Paul

[stickleback]

Just checked the maps near my marina. They've got Blisworth Marina labelled as "Armfield Marina", bridge 48 at Gayton Junction on the GU correctly identified, and around the corner on the Northampton Arm where there is a BW elsan point, toilets and a private boatyard, it is labelled as the New Boat Co - which is at Blisworth Marina already mentioned. This one is also marked on the wrong side of the road which is actually Arm Farm (super free range eggs here...)

 

These are the only ones I've looked at so far, but it comes out at 30% accurate - no doubt good enough to get an A* in the new dumbed down A levels, but not a huge help to boaters I'd think!

 

Stickleback

[adam1uk]

hi,

Not quite. We are changing and adding various parts as we go.

 

snip

 

thanks,

paul

 

I'm afraid I didn't understand most of that. What I do know is that the interactive maps used to be fantastic. The canal was highlighted, you could hover over bridges and it would tell you the number, and all the locks were shown.

 

Now, if there's a river alongside the canal (as there often is), you can't even tell which is which. The only bridges shown are the ones with roads over them, and there appear to be no locks at all on any waterway.

 

Just as an example, have a look at this map of the Coventry Canal. I defy anyone to tell where the canal goes.

 

[Machpoint005]

The Google Maps are quite simply not up to the standard of the previous OS maps, IMO. Just as an example, Hardings Wood Junction, even at the largest scale, has the Macc leaving the T&M as a T junction to the north, whereas the last time I was there, there was a T to the south then a crossover aqueduct. Nicholsons describes the junction as 'exciting and unusual' but the casual observer would look at the Waterscape map and wonder what all the fuss was about.

 

I can't help wondering if the switch from Ordnance Survey was financially motivated (ie Google was cheaper) but if so, it's a prime example of getting what you pay for. Google Maps plainly were not drawn with waterways in mind at all, whereas OS maps show everything.

[bottle]

Just had a look at Gloucester Docks (Gloucester, Sharpnesss Canal)

 

Did not recognise it. (well almost didn't)

[Nine of Hearts]

Adam

 

Link, to the ones I think you want. http://www.waterscape.com/canals-and-rivers

 

Edit: when you have chosen the canal you require look for 'boaters guides' in the right hand column.

 

Thank the lord for that, I thought for a while that these had gone. Whilst I can see what they're trying to do with the new maps, they're hardly the kind of thing you could use whilst actually navigating. Perhaps they should name one lot ,"Armchair guides" to differentiate between those and the "Boater's". To get the kind of scale where the individual locks etc . become clear on the new maps, you need to zoom in so far that even a narrowboat would be off the page in under in a minute. Phylis would get RSI.

[dor]

I too find the A4 PDF boaters guides useful and was concerned these had gone.

 

In my modest opinion I think the interactive maps are a complete waste of time as far as boaters are concerned. To see any relevant information the area covered is too small, and the symbols often overlap. The maps are basically road maps; all other information is just there to fill up the white bits.

 

Waterscape would be better spending their time in improving the Boaters guides, which still include a number of inaccuracies, e.g. misplaced winding holes and services.

 

I wonder at times who the Waterscape site is aimed at; boaters seem well down the list.

[welshmike]

What I use to like about the old maps was that the canals were highlighted on every scale of zoom. Cities and roads were secondary. Just told Paul Morgan so in an email.

[alan_fincher]

Yes,

 

These new maps are hardly accurate!

 

Tring summit has 3 official winding holes, for instance, (one at each end, and one near Bulbourne bridge).

 

None is shown.

 

Although curiously the highly unofficial one that BW staff (part!) dredged out near Tring station bridge, so they didn't have to take their workboats to one end or the other to turn, IS shown.

 

Looking at the maps, I really don't get who they are aimed at.

[Canalwatcher]

Yes,

 

These new maps are hardly accurate!

 

Tring summit has 3 official winding holes, for instance, (one at each end, and one near Bulbourne bridge).

 

None is shown.

 

Although curiously the highly unofficial one that BW staff (part!) dredged out near Tring station bridge, so they didn't have to take their workboats to one end or the other to turn, IS shown.

 

Looking at the maps, I really don't get who they are aimed at.

But as Bottle pointed out, at least you can still access the old maps via canal and rivers boaters guides Tring appears on pages 5 and 6 of the GU guide and shows the three official winding holes:

 

http://www.waterscape.com/things-to-do/boa...4fdaf5ec4385bf1

 

Mick

[Richard Fairhurst]

I'd be interested if feedback were posted here rather than just directly to Paul, for the benefit of anyone else who might be considering doing some online waterway mapping...

 

Richard (who created the old version of the Waterscape maps)

Edited March 4, 2009 by Richard Fairhurst

[fender]

I wonder at times who the Waterscape site is aimed at; boaters seem well down the list.

 

Waterscape is a nasty, confusing network of internet pages thats a nightmare to navigate through. Its too contrasty and full of lurid colours. I cant see why they have to make the experience so much worse with these crap new maps? Perhaps the site's aimed at users who are high on drugs?

 

(PS I love the River Stort pdf map! It shows the river climbing from Bishops Stortford to a summit at Hallingbury then falls down to the Lee!)

Edited March 4, 2009 by fender

[Canalwatcher]

Waterscape is a nasty, confusing network of internet pages thats a nightmare to navigate through. Its too contrasty and full of lurid colours. I cant see why they have to make the experience so much worse with these crap new maps? Perhaps the site's aimed at users who are high on drugs?

 

(PS I love the River Stort pdf map! It shows the river climbing from Bishops Stortford to a summit at Hallingbury then falls down to the Lee!)

But, as my post 15 at least you can still access the old Stort Map via boaters guides - tasteful monochrome too!

 

http://www.waterscape.com/things-to-do/boa...f99e2b6f4d7923b

 

This still shows a Hallingbury summit though

 

Mick

Edited March 4, 2009 by zodiak

[adam1uk]

But as Bottle pointed out, at least you can still access the old maps via canal and rivers boaters guides Tring appears on pages 5 and 6 of the GU guide and shows the three official winding holes:

 

http://www.waterscape.com/things-to-do/boa...4fdaf5ec4385bf1

 

Mick

 

The boaters guides are not the same thing as the old interactive maps. They're not interactive, for a start.

[welshmike]

This is my feedback:

 

Hi Paul,

 

I've been reading the comments on www.canalworld.net about the new maps.

 

I'm another person who prefers the old maps. What was great was that it highlighted the waterways first, rather than cities and roads.

 

I'm planning a trip around the Leicester Loop this summer and could see the route of the canal first and then zoom in on a particular area. On Google maps I don't know where to start the zoom (also the old zoom was one click and very quick.) The scale of the zoom, although set, was perfect and the OS maps far more accurate in placing locks and bridges etc.

 

Using canalplanAC, I would double check exact locations given (locks, bridges etc) very quickly by using the Waterscape map to see if any visitor moorings would be close-by. Now it would take me a lot longer to do this. Would this be possible if you are going to stay using Google maps?

 

Regards,

 

Mike

[Canalwatcher]

The boaters guides are not the same thing as the old interactive maps. They're not interactive, for a start.

 

Agreed

 

Mick

[paulmorgan]

Just checked the maps near my marina. They've got Blisworth Marina labelled as "Armfield Marina", bridge 48 at Gayton Junction on the GU correctly identified, and around the corner on the Northampton Arm where there is a BW elsan point, toilets and a private boatyard, it is labelled as the New Boat Co - which is at Blisworth Marina already mentioned. This one is also marked on the wrong side of the road which is actually Arm Farm (super free range eggs here...)

 

These are the only ones I've looked at so far, but it comes out at 30% accurate - no doubt good enough to get an A* in the new dumbed down A levels, but not a huge help to boaters I'd think!

 

Stickleback

Ok, that's interesting to me. The data we get is from BW's own GIS data source or sometimes where it has been supplied by a owner (say of a marina). Would you mind clicking on the offending structures and replying back with the functional locations of the structures and where you think they should be. I can then pass it back to the GIS team and they can validate it.

 

Paul

 

I'd be interested if feedback were posted here rather than just directly to Paul, for the benefit of anyone else who might be considering doing some online waterway mapping...

 

Richard (who created the old version of the Waterscape maps)

 

Yes, that seems a good idea.

I'll still respond if people email me, but putting the feedback here might also help stimulate ideas and requests, and pass useful information around.

 

Paul

[fender]

The boaters guides are not the same thing as the old interactive maps. They're not interactive, for a start.

 

yes agreed but there's a world of difference between simple and clear, interactive and downright confusing, which is where the new maps have gone. Interactive is a term that's meant to describe some sort of inter-activity (aka virtual realism?) but its a stupid term (just as VR is) and it cannot really be used in the sense it is meant until we actually have things something similar to the holodecks on the Enterprise. So please can Waterscape just stick to the simple things and not try to hide behind current technology in order to deliver goods that are at best a complete sham.

 

(edited to remove double posting)

Edited March 4, 2009 by fender

[adam1uk]

yes agreed but there's a world of difference between simple and clear, interactive and downright confusing, which is where the new maps have gone. Interactive is a term that's meant to describe some sort of inter-activity (aka virtual realism?) but its a stupid term (just as VR is) and it cannot really be used in the sense it is meant until we actually have things something similar to the holodecks on the Enterprise. So please can Waterscape just stick to the simple things and not try to hide behind current technology in order to deliver goods that are at best a complete sham.

 

Quite, but if you remember, the whole reason I started this thread was because the old maps were interactive in a good way, and the new ones aren't. Maybe you never used them.