Which engine?

[Boatgypsy]

I'm looking at fitting out a new boat and I'm thinking about what powerplant to use. Indeed I'm weighing up the pros and cons of an off the shelf marine engine or marinising an auto engine.

 

The boat will be a 60' trad with a rear mounted engine.

 

I'm sure there are lots of you out there with views to profer, so go on, please give me some more ideas.

[Troll]

Barrus Shire say 45 to 50 seems most popular these days

[robkg]

I'm looking at fitting out a new boat and I'm thinking about what powerplant to use. Indeed I'm weighing up the pros and cons of an off the shelf marine engine or marinising an auto engine.

 

The boat will be a 60' trad with a rear mounted engine.

 

I'm sure there are lots of you out there with views to profer, so go on, please give me some more ideas.

I'm biased but I recommend vintage in engine room. Sounds nice, quieter than a modern one roaring away under your feet, looks nice and if you have the skills to restore and marinise one (which it sounds like you do), can be reasonably cheap. My first boat was fitted with a Ruston 2VSO which cost me £220 to buy (in 1992) and about £1000 to restore and marinise (including gearbox). It ran trouble free for the 10 years I owned the boat.

[Gary Peacock]

Unfortunately a CE compliant new boat will equal new boat plus compliant engine and that normally equates to a modern factory marinised engine.

 

A few builders of the good old washer joshers etc were made aware of the legal position recently resulting in much choking on and spitting of the real ale!

 

Of course if CE compliance isn't an important issue and the boat is not placed on the market you can fit whatever you fancy.

[Proper Job]

If you're looking for an engine to marinise yourself, I would agree with robkg

 

If you're looking for a modern unit, I would go down the route of a new 'marine' unit. It's probably not that cost effective to marinise a transit engine (other auto lumps are available ) anymore.

Edited November 19, 2008 by Proper Job

[Tony Brooks]

I'm looking at fitting out a new boat and I'm thinking about what powerplant to use. Indeed I'm weighing up the pros and cons of an off the shelf marine engine or marinising an auto engine.

 

The boat will be a 60' trad with a rear mounted engine.

 

I'm sure there are lots of you out there with views to profer, so go on, please give me some more ideas.

 

 

Any modern automotive unit you get hold of today will probably use an idiot timing belt. This is fine as long as you can get to the front of the engine to change it when either its hours are up or it gets covered in oily bilge water - as long as you know how, one slip and its probably several hundreds of pounds to put right. You also have the problem of sourcing or making the parts required to marinise it.

 

Now to open up myself up to incoming! Personally I would fit a Beta (Kubota based) but if one was not available at a suitable price I would fit an Isuzu. I can see nothing wrong with a rebuilt BMC from Calcutt but it might be a bit underpowered for river work on 60 ft. When I looked into all this for a magazine article I concluded that any of the modern engines (apart from those using a timing belt) are more than adequate so it all comes down to the service & spares availability form the local agent and the colour you like.

[Denis R]

I've got a Beta and it's a good solid engine. The only PITA is that it doesn't have 'marine friendly' single-side servicing, the oil filter's down in the bilge on the opposite side to the fuel filter so you need access all-round.

[Boatgypsy]

I'm aware of the issues around CE compliance and to be honest I might be looking at selling this boat within five years, so yes, it would need to be compliant really.

 

I'd love to get hold of a nice single or twin vintage engine, but the downside for me would be the extra time spent on a rebuild and the possible difficulties in getting hold of spares.

 

My current boat has a Land Rover 2.5, which although not a smooth or quiet engine is fairly bombproof and spares are easily found - I've even managed to source coreplugs from a local farmer after one failed in the middle of nowhere.

 

I have seen one company offering Peugeot XUD engines fully marinised. I've had very good experiences with these engines in cars, but for a CE compliant one you are looking at £3k+.

 

It is looking like a remanufactured BMC marine unit might be the best compromise between cost, ruggedness and ease of fitting.

 

Thanks for all the ideas.

[bottle]

Hi

 

Another biased opinion (having one fitted to my new boat) Beat Marine 43 (pdf document).

 

Reasons for choice, their head office was near my house, very scientific, but also from snippets picked up over the last few years.

 

My boat is also a 60' and will make regular trips on the Severn and Bets said it would be suitable.

 

I also believe that they have re-designed the layout, so that, oil, air, fuel filters are all on the same side. Drawing PDF

 

Brochure here http://www.betamarine.co.uk/newsite/downlo...201710%20v3.pdf WARNING, this is a large file.

[Boatgypsy]

Hi

 

Another biased opinion (having one fitted to my new boat) Beat Marine 43 (pdf document).

 

Reasons for choice, their head office was near my house, very scientific, but also from snippets picked up over the last few years.

 

My boat is also a 60' and will make regular trips on the Severn and Bets said it would be suitable.

 

I also believe that they have re-designed the layout, so that, oil, air, fuel filters are all on the same side. Drawing PDF

 

Brochure here http://www.betamarine.co.uk/newsite/downlo...201710%20v3.pdf WARNING, this is a large file.

 

Any idea of a rough price for a new Beta 43? I've been looking at these but not found any prices yet.

Ian

[Denis R]

I also believe that they have re-designed the layout, so that, oil, air, fuel filters are all on the same side.

That's a much more sensible layout to mine - a Beta 35 and I see on the 35 they've now moved the sump pump to a much more logical place compared to mine, although the oil filter's still down low on the 'wrong' side. Not that they can do anything about that easily though.

Based on the drawing and for your length boat, I'd definitely recommend the Beta 43.

[bottle]

Probably the easiest way to found out would be to phone Beta, O1452-723492 but reading your post #8 I think they will be a lot more than £3,000.

 

Haven't priced mine as boat builder is arranging that.

 

 

00)1452 723492)1452 723492

Edited November 19, 2008 by bottle

[Tony Brooks]

I'm aware of the issues around CE compliance and to be honest I might be looking at selling this boat within five years, so yes, it would need to be compliant really.

 

I'd love to get hold of a nice single or twin vintage engine, but the downside for me would be the extra time spent on a rebuild and the possible difficulties in getting hold of spares.

 

My current boat has a Land Rover 2.5, which although not a smooth or quiet engine is fairly bombproof and spares are easily found - I've even managed to source coreplugs from a local farmer after one failed in the middle of nowhere.

 

I have seen one company offering Peugeot XUD engines fully marinised. I've had very good experiences with these engines in cars, but for a CE compliant one you are looking at £3k+.

 

It is looking like a remanufactured BMC marine unit might be the best compromise between cost, ruggedness and ease of fitting.

 

Thanks for all the ideas.

 

 

If CE marking is required I doubt the BMC option is open to you. I am sure Calcutt are capable of importing new BMCs of both persuasions but the fact they now only offer rebuilts may need looking into.

 

Tony Brooks

[PaddingtonBear]

Surely another issue, if as you say, you are going to sell it within 5 years (not withstanding all the issues that Gary has raised) is the effect of fitting a 'mickey mouse' engine/marinisation on the resale value. You (still) do not get something for nothing and your Peugeot option seems to me to be too cheap to be any good and is a totally unsuitable base engine in any event. Tony knows about these things and it would be wise to try and follow his advice. If you are trying to do the job 'on the cheap' perhaps a good quality, second hand engine might be a better option but if you are doing this to make money, don't try, it has been tried before many, many times and almost always ends in failure. BTW I don't have any of the engines mentioned so I have no axe to grind but don't waste your time 'dreaming' about a proper engine either as 'right' ones are almost impossible to get hold of in any state and cost a lot of time and money to restore properly.

[alan_fincher]

If CE marking is required I doubt the BMC option is open to you. I am sure Calcutt are capable of importing new BMCs of both persuasions but the fact they now only offer rebuilts may need looking into.

 

Tony Brooks

Just a thought, but how are Calcutt still able to use BMCs in the new build ("Clipper class") boats that they market ?

 

Worth talking to them, I guess.

 

Alan

[Athy]

Our local boatbuilder usually installs Ford engines. The boats are often used on rivers so I guess they have the necessary power. Plus I should think that, with the many thousands of Ford diesel engines and hundreds of competent mechanics around, you're guaranteed cheap spare parts and servicing for life!

[madcat]

The cam belt issue is one Iam familiar with, our escorts have this bit of maintainance done ie belt changed when its hours are up. well at the reccommended mileage interval or slightly before. So so far we have not had a busted belt wrecked engine event. However I know of 3 failed belts and damaged engines at least all due to not changing the belt when its time is up. Choosing an engine well that is hard for an unknown person but I have a great deal of respect for the good old BMC. Otherwise maybe ask around and see what gets fitted in plant and farm machinery. Should be tough and reliable.When you fit it allow good access for maintainance and repair in the future. Good Luck

[Machpoint005]

Surely (as regards modern engines) anything based on the Kubota 4-cyl is going to be a good bet? The base engine isn't meant for road work, but rather for day in, day out constant speeds in an agricultural or construction machine. That's the closest you're going to get.

 

With the best will in the world, the so-called BMC is getting a bit long in the tooth these days, unless efficiency and reduced emissions are not an issue - I happen to think they are! So Beta, Nanni, Barrus etc are the places to look. Like other posters, I'd be very wary (as a buyer) of a home-brew marinated engine, when there are so many professional versions available.

[alan_fincher]

Even though we have one, I'd struggle to make a real case for the BMC, certainly not on "emissions" anyway!

 

However, as far as efficiency goes, I see nothing to suggest that the newer Japanese engines are significantly more fuel efficient.

 

From what people have quoted, our consumption of around 1.3 litres per hour seems close to that of a newer unit.

 

(That figure is based on pushing along fairly fast, when conditions allow).

 

Alan

[Smelly]

I've got an Isuzu 35 in a 58ft boat. The installation was a bit shonky but that wasn't the engine's fault and, despite a lot of people saying it was impossible, it seems that, having been re-machined for some reason, the cone end bush sprung a bit of a leak, at least, there was a leak that; when a gasket was put between flange and flywheel, stopped.

 

It pushed the boat along relatively well when fighting a rising Severn earlier this year, although after about 7 hours pushing 2200 revs it smelled rather hot...

 

It's got about 2500 hours on it in 2 1/2 years or so and no probs so far that have been the plant's fault. It's getting a bit manky when cold starting though...

 

edit... missed a 0 off the hours

Edited November 19, 2008 by Smelly

[Nickhlx]

I believe the Beta 43 is about £5400 depending on options - not sure if that is VAT inclusive or not

 

Nick

[Chris-B]

Or a Lister Canalstar 40 £5k inc delivery and vat ..

 

Chris