Boat Pole

[magnetman]

No, no, go on, go on.....

I really miss chris w. seriously.

[Big Steve]

Could you tell me which modern glue will make an Ash laminate have a higher inter-laminar shear strength than a solid piece?

 

Not right well up on inter laminar shear, but would think it's the shear strength of the whole pole that mattered.

 

Even good old cascamite would make a joint stronger than the wood. I've broken one and the glue didn't give way. These days I use polyurethane wood glue, the 5 minute versions too quick, the 30 minute about right. I'd like to see the figures that show a laminated shaft using this stuff isn't has strong has an unlaminated one, but then, as you're carlt, you'll have them to hand no doubt.

 

Having said that, I was only suggesting two bits stuck together because I have the 1 1/4" thick in the garage. If it didn't involve a 30 mile trip to get 2 1/4" thick, than that's what I'd use. Polyurethane glue is bloody messy too, always use gloves. It doesn't matter how careful or small the job is you will get it on your hands. It takes a week to wear off, it won't wash off. (it bonds to the skin, so only comes clean when the skin's worn/scrubbed/sanded away)

 

Stop getting so bloody technical, it's what happens in practise that matters . Steve

[DHutch]

It takes a week to wear off, it won't wash off.

Acetone.

 

But on the topic of the BT/Pole debate, we have both.

- The pole gets used about three or four times as day on a lotof canal, depending on whos stearing, and has yet to fail us.

- The bow thruster gets used three of four times a year, and usally only has a about a once in five success rate at atachving the required goal.

 

Also ontop of the greatly diffreing intial price, the bow thruster has cost around £150 and to days work in maintainance in the last 17 years operation, and the boat pole around 6minutes and 0.01pence. (I painted wooden ends as a way of cleaning the brush out a bit last year while painting the cabin).

 

 

Daniel

[John Orentas]

Find a very posh timber yard and buy the best piece of Ash pole they have, doesn't matter what it costs 'we can't put a price on safety can we'..

 

That's the fashionable view, in practise, sensible people buy a length of 50mm banister rail, the stuff is perfectly adequate as long as you use it in compression and don't go levering things with it, cut it to a reasonable length a 15 foot pole is completely unmanageable, cut it down to what you can manage, 10 or 12 ft is more than adequate.

 

Yes it will rot away if you don't look after it, paint it every year or two, my last one was 12 years old.

 

Fit a couple of self adhesive heat shrink ends on it to protect the end-grain.

Edited July 30, 2008 by John Orentas

[blackrose]

Find a very posh timber yard and buy the best piece of Ash pole they have, doesn't matter what it costs 'we can't put a price on safety can we'..

 

That's the fashionable view, in practise, sensible people buy a length of 50mm banister rail, the stuff is perfectly adequate as long as you use it in compression and don't go levering things with it, cut it to a reasonable length a 15 foot pole is completely unmanageable, cut it down to what you can manage, 10 or 12 ft is more than adequate.

 

Yes it will rot away if you don't look after it, paint it every year or two, my last one was 12 years old.

 

Fit a couple of self adhesive heat shrink ends on it to protect the end-grain.

 

Really?

 

I think you've recommended this before on the forum, so at the risk repeating myself, I tested this theory at my local B&Q. I put a 50mm dia pine bannister rail in the corner of a shelving unit and put my weight on it. I'm not a big bloke but I was shocked at how easily the rail just buckled. There was no leverage used, just compression as you say. Pine bannister rails are designed to sit on top of bannisters not to push boats. A snapped bannister rail could mean 1 boater in the water, possibly with the sharp end of the snapped rail through his/her chest.

 

DON'T DO IT!

Edited July 30, 2008 by blackrose

[DHutch]

I dont really feel like scare mongering, and a bit of bannister is a sight better than nothing at all, but it really depends what you want to do.

- We end up on the bottom a fair bit, infact espcailly if we have a less experenced helm taking turns, several times every day on the right waterway. And that needs a lot of pushing at time. Compaired to moving a floating boat about, say to get out of a marina.

 

I very deffonatly posted it before, and its a poor picture, but this shows the sort of thing we use ours for frequently.

 

Boating in Brum, corner very much cut (did i mention inexperenced stearers), 22tonnes of boat on the gravel, push!!!

*The boat as ballested correctly as well, and returned to leval when in came off!

 

 

Daniel

[carlt]

Find a very posh timber yard and buy the best piece of Ash pole they have, doesn't matter what it costs 'we can't put a price on safety can we'..

 

That's the fashionable view, in practise, sensible people buy a length of 50mm banister rail, the stuff is perfectly adequate as long as you use it in compression and don't go levering things with it, cut it to a reasonable length a 15 foot pole is completely unmanageable, cut it down to what you can manage, 10 or 12 ft is more than adequate.

 

Yes it will rot away if you don't look after it, paint it every year or two, my last one was 12 years old.

 

Fit a couple of self adhesive heat shrink ends on it to protect the end-grain.

If the pine bannister rail fails, whilst being used as a lever, the broken ends, with their sharp points, will at least be heading away from you and you'll probably just get wet.

 

If the pine bannister rail fails in compression, then you'll get speared. This happened to my friend and he was lucky it only went through his hand.

 

The difference in price is not very much. The difference in quality is huge.

 

There is nothing sensible about using lower grade materials for a potentially lethal tool.

 

Ash has been the wood of choice for poles, shafts and quants for hundreds of years....hardly fashionable.

[Tim Doran]

I use... shock horror ... a long hazel pole. I cut it green and will replace it every now and again. I must admit that the sourcing of the pole was not with out incedent. My non-boating friend was 'helping' and was carrying the axe and some how managed to cut his hand.

 

For those on a tight budget it cost nothing bar the plaster for said hand.

 

Tim

[RLWP]

The difference in price is not very much. The difference in quality is huge.

 

Yes, here we are again having a huge debate over a few pounds. I was pleasantly surprised by the price of our ash pole from Midland Chandlers. They are on their website for £33.45 at the moment Here. Admittedly the B&Q one is from the Richard Burbidge range but theirs is £28.37 Here

 

If you handle them the difference in quality (closeness and straightness of grain, fexibility, weight) is light years apart.

 

Richard

 

You can always plane a flat on the side if you really want one.

[Larkboy]

I have 12' long 2" diameter aluminium one which I made at work by welding a cap on each end... Nice and light, very strong and it floats, oh, and good to paint too.

[jelunga]

I use a bayonet

 

Would that be from a First WW Lee Enfield SMLE, which is more like a short sword, or the pig sticker from the 2WW Lee Enfield no 4?

[magnetman]

Would that be from a First WW Lee Enfield SMLE, which is more like a short sword, or the pig sticker from the 2WW Lee Enfield no 4?

not sure, but its quite long and round with a pointy end and I found it with the magnet.

[Smelly]

I use... shock horror ... a long hazel pole. I cut it green and will replace it every now and again. I must admit that the sourcing of the pole was not with out incedent. My non-boating friend was 'helping' and was carrying the axe and some how managed to cut his hand.

 

For those on a tight budget it cost nothing bar the plaster for said hand.

 

Tim

 

Although being an old bender builder I like the idea of using hazel, wouldn't it be a bit flexi under compression?

[carlt]

Although being an old bender builder I like the idea of using hazel, wouldn't it be a bit flexi under compression?

I think the way hazel splinters, on failure, would be a minor concern, but the actual point of failure, of a 3" Hazel pole, would involve so much force (and the pole would be bent double) that being catapulted into the next parish would be the greater worry.

[Bones]

Lower Heyford of Oxfordshire Narrowboats do the poles and I asked them about their prices:

 

We can offer 14ft or 16ft in Ash, either as is (ex stock) £38/£44, and they do do them primered or glossed at a fee.

 

They said the aliminium ones depend on how long is required and when ordered as to price.

[Alistair]

Wouldn't an aluminium scaffold tube with a couple of end caps do the job?

[carlt]

Wouldn't an aluminium scaffold tube with a couple of end caps do the job?

Yes

[Tim Lewis]

Wouldn't an aluminium scaffold tube with a couple of end caps do the job?

 

 

They dont float and can't be picked up with a magnet (Speaks from experience) THINKS - the one we have doesn't have end caps - not sure if it would float if it did.

 

Tim

[carlt]

They dont float and can't be picked up with a magnet (Speaks from experience) THINKS - the one we have doesn't have end caps - not sure if it would float if it did.

 

Tim

They do float, when capped but there is no way I'd have one on my boat.

[bottle]

They do float, when capped but there is no way I'd have one on my boat.

 

You..........you.........traditionalist.

[carlt]

You..........you.........traditionalist.

Well that and the fact that I don't like cold hands.

[Grace and Favour]

Well that and the fact that I don't like cold hands.

 

 

That all depends upon which part of you the cold hands are holding - (and whom they belong to )- surely???

[Tim Lewis]

They do float, when capped but there is no way I'd have one on my boat.

 

 

We carry a short aluminium pole as we found a useful trick when really stuck at the stern in jamming the pole between the bank and the boat at approx the engine room then pulling the bow into the bank. This gives a massive leverage which will normally pull the back off (at which point the aluminium pole falls in the water!).

 

Tim

 

Wouldn't an aluminium scaffold tube with a couple of end caps do the job?

 

Would note that aluminium scaffold poles, having to have thicker metal than the equivalent steel ones to achieve the same strength, are not that light.

 

Tim

Edited July 31, 2008 by Tim Lewis

[John Orentas]

There is some very strange arithmetic at work here, about 90% of forum members seem to recommend an ash or aluminium pole, yet 90% of all boats on the system have a length of banister rail on the roof, it's all very odd..

[Bones]

There is some very strange arithmetic at work here, about 90% of forum members seem to recommend an ash or aluminium pole, yet 90% of all boats on the system have a length of banister rail on the roof, it's all very odd..

 

numbers such as 9 are odd, as are your stats, and the majority of boaters. Math is odd too, as is your research, how do you know the 90% wit the banister on their roof don't use it as an example to others (they may be on tour to show the difference) and who says that actually use it - perhaps they are using the boat to transport their new banister rail home?

 

I have a banister rail on my boat. And two broken poles, and two not broken poles... I also work with a pole, but she wouldn't be any use on my roof.