Red diesel side effects

[Chertsey]

Just a tiny point that may have been lost among the cost implications of the ending of the derogation on diesel duty for propulsion. My understanding (from reading Canal Boat) is that in future when we buy red diesel we will have to make a declaration to the seller as to what proportion of it is for propulsion, and what for heating, electricity generation etc. The seller will have to keep a record of this to show that they're paying the correct duty.

 

What this means is that every time we buy fuel, our boat details and location will have to be recorded. Anyone else bothered by this further little creep of the surveillance society?

 

I'd rather pay the full duty on the lot frankly (easy for me as I don't have diesel heating). Hope they won't have to take our details if we do that.

[NB Alnwick]

I'd rather pay the full duty on the lot frankly (easy for me as I don't have diesel heating). Hope they won't have to take our details if we do that.

 

Oh yes they will

[grahoom]

What this means is that every time we buy fuel, our boat details and location will have to be recorded. Anyone else bothered by this further little creep of the surveillance society?

 

 

 

i recall when i first saw these posters in the mid/late 90's ... i didn't smile ....

[NB Alnwick]

i recall when i first saw these posters in the mid/late 90's ... i didn't smile ....

 

These days most of us have been persuaded to carry mobile tracking devices and have them with us at all times. What's the problem.

[Chertsey]

 

i recall when i first saw these posters in the mid/late 90's ... i didn't smile ....

Yes, there's something really smug and creepy about that isn't there.

For a while I thought the waterways were the one place we could escape it....

[grahoom]

These days most of us have been persuaded to carry mobile tracking devices and have them with us at all times. What's the problem.

 

indeed - what is the problem?

 

Edited April 14, 2008 by grahoom

[Chertsey]

indeed - what is the problem?

 

Crikey, is that for real?

 

The state wanting constant surveillance is worrying enough.

When we start to accept and even welcome it then it's time to despair.

[grahoom]

Crikey, is that for real?

 

The state wanting constant surveillance is worrying enough.

When we start to accept and even welcome it then it's time to despair.

 

yes these posters were around in 2002.

[Yoda]

We have had tracking devices since the 1980's. They are called cell phones and they know where they are.

 

Something that most people do not know is that all the time that they are switched on and linked to a cell, they can transmit any sound or voice just sitting there. It was a feature that the government didn't want known as with the triangulation of position of the 'phone. It makes survailance so easy.

[Chertsey]

We have had tracking devices since the 1980's. They are called cell phones and they know where they are.

 

Something that most people do not know is that all the time that they are switched on and linked to a cell, they can transmit any sound or voice just sitting there. It was a feature that the government didn't want known as with the triangulation of position of the 'phone. It makes survailance so easy.

Is that right? I'm surprised I haven't heard that before, being the paranoid sort that I am.

But the difference with phones is that they ARE voluntary, they can be untraceable if you don't register them, and you can turn them off.

[grahoom]

But the difference with phones is that they ARE voluntary, they can be untraceable if you don't register them, and you can turn them off.

 

exactly, the individual decides if they want to use a mobile phone. We are not (yet) forced to have a radio transmitter implanted into us.

 

I just find it a little concerning that the UK has the most surveillance than any other country.

 

There are more CCTV's in Croydon than the whole of New York State. ah well - least we're safe.

[NB Alnwick]

We have had tracking devices since the 1980's. They are called cell phones and they know where they are.

 

Something that most people do not know is that all the time that they are switched on and linked to a cell, they can transmit any sound or voice just sitting there. It was a feature that the government didn't want known as with the triangulation of position of the 'phone. It makes survailance so easy.

 

I remember about ten years ago one of the so called quality newspapers published a story on 1st April about how the government were investing in a new breed of surveillance cameras with body heat imaging capability so they could see what people were doing in their own homes. They even added that, where the construction of the building was such that this would be ineffective, small cameras would be installed inside the homes but they would be quite discrete so as to cause little inconvenience - sadly this April Fools trick backfired because almost everyone who read it, believed it and the paper were inundated with letters of protestation!

[grahoom]

I remember about ten years ago one of the so called quality newspapers published a story on 1st April about how the government were investing in a new breed of surveillance cameras with body heat imaging capability so they could see what people were doing in their own homes. They even added that, where the construction of the building was such that this would be ineffective, small cameras would be installed inside the homes but they would be quite discrete so as to cause little inconvenience - sadly this April Fools trick backfired because almost everyone who read it, believed it and the paper were inundated with letters of protestation!

 

 

although the Police do use Camera's that track Body heat imaging, in Helicopters especially.

 

http://www.derbyshire.police.uk/youngspace/31.html

 

This camera can record in full colour during the day. At night, it records by thermal imaging - which means it records images by picking up the different sources of heat.

 

sure it was an April fools?

[magnetman]

We have had tracking devices since the 1980's. They are called cell phones and they know where they are.

 

Something that most people do not know is that all the time that they are switched on and linked to a cell, they can transmit any sound or voice just sitting there. It was a feature that the government didn't want known as with the triangulation of position of the 'phone. It makes survailance so easy.

 

TV and computer screens are built with internal cameras

 

You are being watched

[BlueStringPudding]

There are more CCTV's in Croydon than the whole of New York State. ah well - least we're safe.

 

Yeah - thanks to all that CCTV Croydon's the safest place on the planet. You never hear in Croydon of muggings, fights, stabbings, drunken violence....

 

 

But the difference with phones is that they ARE voluntary, they can be untraceable if you don't register them, and you can turn them off.

 

If you want to go abroad to have to have a passport. And they now have nice little coily bits of wire in the back...

[PaulG]

Just a tiny point that may have been lost among the cost implications of the ending of the derogation on diesel duty for propulsion. My understanding (from reading Canal Boat) is that in future when we buy red diesel we will have to make a declaration to the seller as to what proportion of it is for propulsion, and what for heating, electricity generation etc. The seller will have to keep a record of this to show that they're paying the correct duty.

 

What this means is that every time we buy fuel, our boat details and location will have to be recorded. Anyone else bothered by this further little creep of the surveillance society?

 

I'd rather pay the full duty on the lot frankly (easy for me as I don't have diesel heating). Hope they won't have to take our details if we do that.

 

Remember that neither HMRC or the government wanted the duty increase because there was no real money in it for them.

 

In essence, they said that the extra duty amounted to 0.06% of the total fuel duty collected, and the the enforcement effort would have to reflect the amount of money involved. I suspect that 0.06% of their enforcement budget is going to pay for no more than a cursory examination of the fuel outlets' records.

 

Every time I go through a lock on the Severn, my boat details are recorded, so I'm not really bothered by a few fuel receipts which nobody will ever look at in any detail.

[larkshall]

Hmm this stinks of the state interference. Just like illegally (in my opinion) HOlding dna on anyone arrested, and not destroying the same if the individual is found innocent by a court or cps does not prosecute.

 

Seems to me you need several registration nos on boats and swap em for every lock. (Didn't bond have a car that had this gizmo?).

 

I say b???er eh all. ANd graffitti artists should paint every single cctv lens that can be found.

[NB Alnwick]

You are being watched

 

If you can see me, I can see you . . .

[Nickhlx]

and in a similar vein, Sat Navs record internally ( not visble on most screens) you average leg speed for legs of a journey that are typically only a few tens of feet long... so effectively they are spies in the cab for driving over the speed limits... logging time , place and speed at thet time - so, if you need to, delete your track / log history - can only get to mine on a PC hookup !

 

Nick

[WJM]

"What this means is that every time we buy fuel, our boat details and location will have to be recorded"

 

 

That is exactly what they do already every time you fill up with red diesel. So what is new?

[Machpoint005]

Every time you use a credit or debit card, 'they' know where you are.

 

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not watching you (IYSWIM)

 

Ian

[stuart]

"What this means is that every time we buy fuel, our boat details and location will have to be recorded"

 

 

That is exactly what they do already every time you fill up with red diesel. So what is new?

 

 

Correct, this is already done to prove the fuel went into a boat rather than a road car/lorry.

[JP01]

and in a similar vein, Sat Navs record internally ( not visible on most screens) you average leg speed for legs of a journey that are typically only a few tens of feet long... so effectively they are spies in the cab for driving over the speed limits... logging time , place and speed at thet time - so, if you need to, delete your track / log history - can only get to mine on a PC hookup !

 

Nick

Digital Tachographs on LGVs are already being used by VOSA to prosecute speeding drivers. Plus some companies have satnav tracking devices fitted and these are used to discipline speeding drivers.

 

Now the local council has put up warning covert CCTV surveillance signs, (using the anti terrier-ist legislation) to protect us from dog fouling.

 

AND WE JUST SLEEPWALK into accepting this nonsense.

 

 

 

"What this means is that every time we buy fuel, our boat details and location will have to be recorded"

 

 

That is exactly what they do already every time you fill up with red diesel. So what is new?

 

I never give my correct details when asked for this nonsense.

It's got nothing to do with the retailer or the state who I am, when I buy fuel.

Anymore than it is when I buy a paper or a bag of chips.

 

It's called freedom, something we fought 2WW for.

What is new is people just accepting the state's interference in a miriade of things that are no concern of theirs.

[JohnO]

"What this means is that every time we buy fuel, our boat details and location will have to be recorded"

That is exactly what they do already every time you fill up with red diesel. So what is new?

 

Seconded. Don't know about boatyard's but the Coal/Diesel boats will record your details.

[WJM]

"It's got nothing to do with the [] state who I am"

 

 

Thats right - and that ambulance that rushes to your aid, that fire brigade that saves your family, that hospital that looks after you - I wonder where they come from? Thank god for the conformists.