BSS examiners in short supply?

[Momac]

Some friends are trying to book a BSS renewal examination and having trouble finding and examiner who is willing to do the job. Two of the usual examiners  in our area have turned down the opportunity for the BSS examination work. 

One friend  has found an  examiner who is prepared to do the examination but at a much higher fee than the sums most people mention on this forum and at 50% higher than I paid a year ago.

 

The boats in question are factory built lumpy water boats with previous long BSS history so should be relatively easy to achieve  a pass. 

 

I have no idea whether the shortage of willing surveyors  is a local issue or more widespread. But it may be prudent to not leave the arrangement of a BSS renewal to the last minute. 

[Arthur Marshall]

Took me a while to find one. Cost is around £250 now . I think my opinion if it is well known so I'll say no more...

[Naughty Cal]

Assume you have tried Ian Lumley?

[Momac]

Just now, Naughty Cal said:

Assume you have tried Ian Lumley?

I don't need a BSS for myself as my BSS has 3 years renaming. Its two friends looking for a BSS .

 

They have tried Ian and but it seems like he is not really interested in travelling to Farndon. I guess it could be the time of year meaning he is busy with pre purchase surveys. With boat sales being quite seasonal I guess now is the silly season.

 

Another examiner has been found but its taken a while to and the fee is a lot higher than I paid a year ago.

 

I just wondered if others had found a similar issue with finding a BSS examiner .

[junior]

14 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Took me a while to find one. Cost is around £250 now . I think my opinion if it is well known so I'll say no more...

I paid that plus a little bit more earlier this year for a BSS. I'm always amazed when I see posts on here and other social media from people suggesting they paid half that for theirs, and wonder if they are either not telling the truth, or it was 3 years ago and they're in for a shock in the next 12 months.

[Arthur Marshall]

6 minutes ago, junior said:

I paid that plus a little bit more earlier this year for a BSS. I'm always amazed when I see posts on here and other social media from people suggesting they paid half that for theirs, and wonder if they are either not telling the truth, or it was 3 years ago and they're in for a shock in the next 12 months.

I think your last bit's right. Gave me a shock when I heard the cost. Doubling every time. Be £500 next time and people might start revolting... those of us who don't start out that way, anyway.

[Nightwatch]

As I understand, there are changes that make their job a great deal more expensive, of course they have to pass on this expense towards the customer. Certificates have escalated in price. In addition the BSS has made changes, I don’t know what, that makes their job a little less desirable.

We called in our regular chap. He was busy doing what he does and announced we were a year too early. A nice surprise.

[LadyG]

These extra costs levied by the CRT may have been a reasonable idea when they started, but im not convinced that the scheme is anything other than an added expense. If a boat has a Certificate and there has been no change, why is a renewal necessary?

Edited May 9 by LadyG

[Jerra]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

These extra costs levied by the CRT may have been a reasonable idea when they started, but im not convinced that the scheme is anything other than an added expence. If a boat has a Certificate and there has been no change, why is a renewal necessary?

How is it shown there have been no changes?  Rely on the honesty of boat owners?

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Rely on the honesty of boat owners?

 

Yer - that'd work wouldn't it !

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Jerra said:

If a boat has a Certificate and there has been no change, why is a renewal necessary?

 

There could well be changes that are needed - things like gas pipes, regulators & fuel pipes etc go out of date.

How would any one know the changes had been done if the were not checked

[Naughty Cal]

This will perhaps be an unpopular opinion, but I don't think the safety test is carried out at regular enough intervals. A lot can happen to a boat and it's systems in 4 years.

 

We have a voluntary hab check, which is very similar to a boat safety test, on the van every year. Costs around £200 a time. This year it found a small gas leak which was traced back to the regulator having slightly loosened. Had we not had the test we would have been none the wiser.

[LadyG]

18 minutes ago, Jerra said:

How is it shown there have been no changes?  Rely on the honesty of boat owners?

Yes, why not, if there have been significant changes that affect insurance then the boat is no longer insured comprehensive. The BSS is supposed to refer to safety of passers-by rather than the crew. 

If any person is found guilty of manslaughter, for example, having a recent BSC, will hardly affect the judgement,what about one that is due to run out?

 

The owner just needs to sign off the boat when he insures it. If the boat needs a new Certificate he needs to arrange it.

An annual Examination could be required, why not one every six months, , every year, every eighteen months etc etc.

Edited May 9 by LadyG

[Jerra]

16 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Yer - that'd work wouldn't it !

 

 

 

 

There could well be changes that are needed - things like gas pipes, regulators & fuel pipes etc go out of date.

How would any one know the changes had been done if the were not checked

Basically that is what I was querying.  A scheme with no policing would be worse than useless.

2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Yes, why not, if there have been significant changes that affect insurance then the boat is no longer insured comprehensive. The BSS is supposed to refer to safety of passers-by rather than the crew. 

If any person is found guilty of manslaughter, for example, having a BSC will hardly affect the judgement.

The owner just needs to sign off the boat when he insures it. If the boat needs a new Certificate he needs to arrange it.

You have a touching faith in the honesty of your fellow boaters.

[LadyG]

12 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

This will perhaps be an unpopular opinion, but I don't think the safety test is carried out at regular enough intervals. A lot can happen to a boat and it's systems in 4 years.

 

We have a voluntary hab check, which is very similar to a boat safety test, on the van every year. Costs around £200 a time. This year it found a small gas leak which was traced back to the regulator having slightly loosened. Had we not had the test we would have been none the wiser.

But you could have bought a handheld gas sniffer. Before the MOT I was responsible for the safety of my own vehicle, I am currently responsible forf the maintenance of my own boat. When I cross the road, i am responsible for my own safety, no one examines me....

[Momac]

27 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 - things like gas pipes, regulators & fuel pipes etc go out of date.

 

Do they ?

I don't think so.

Even the orange gas hose doesn't have an expiry date (as popularly misunderstood) but it may be examined and accepted. It might be considered good practice to replace regulator and the gas hose periodically but it's not a BSS requirement. 

 

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Jerra said:

Basically that is what I was querying.  A scheme with no policing would be worse than useless.

You have a touching faith in the honesty of your fellow boaters.

Nothing to do with that, the boat must be insured to be on CRT waters,, the CRT demand, and it was not always so, that a BSC is held by every boat. The owner pays the insurance,  agreeing that his boat is Certified, and that the Certificate is valid.

if his BSC is invalid, his insurance is invalid, it does not matter if it becomes invalid two days or ten years after the Certificate is issued, it is still invalid.

Edited May 9 by LadyG

[Momac]

26 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

 A lot can happen to a boat and it's systems in 4 years.

Like what?

I have owned my boat 11 years and nothing that is relevant to the BSS has changed (excepting CO alarms fitted). 

I have fitted some 12V electronic equipment but the BSS isn't interested in that .

 

In any case the boat should be BSS compliant at all times so any changes , if relevant, should be compliant and the next BSS should be a formality. eg one of the CO alarms became faulty so I replaced it.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

26 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Before the MOT I was responsible for the safety of my own vehicle,

 

 

The MOT was introduced in 1960 so if you were maintaining your own car prior to that date, presumably you had a driving licence that coulds only be issued to someone who was aged 17 or over and had passed their test. (Aged 13 for agricultural Tractors and motorcycles)

 

That would suggest that the youngest you could be is 82 years, assuming you passed your test on achieving the age of 17.

 

 

15 minutes ago, Momac said:

Do they ?

I don't think so.

Even the orange gas hose doesn't have an expiry date (as popularly misunderstood) but it may be examined and accepted. It might be considered good practice to replace regulator and the gas hose periodically but it's not a BSS requirement. 

 

 

It is an industry recommendation and 'best practice' - should you have a gas leak and explosion do you think your insurers would pay out if you had not followed industry installation recommendations ?

Edited May 9 by Alan de Enfield

[LadyG]

18 minutes ago, Momac said:

Do they ?

I don't think so.

Even the orange gas hose doesn't have an expiry date (as popularly misunderstood) but it may be examined and accepted. It might be considered good practice to replace regulator and the gas hose periodically but it's not a BSS requirement. 

 

The hose between the regulator and the rigid gas piping will be in the gas locker which has a drain to the exterior .

The gas hose purchased from a chandlery will be stamped.

I had a gas bod, surveyor, and BSC examiner who did not pass the twenty year old armoured gas hose, I understand that thinking, one cannot examine either condition or date.

The cooker needs to move, in order to be inspected. It now has a coil of copper piping.

I wonder how many people still have armoured hose?

I wonder if this is a BSC requirement or something my Examiner,  being a Gas Safe bod , and fitter demanded before he would sign off the BSC.

I employed someone who was Gas Safe to do the BSC rather than any other Examiner. It is in my interests to have the best person available.

Edited May 9 by LadyG

[Momac]

2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Nothing to do with that, the boat must be insured to be on CRT waters,, the CRT demand, and it was not always so, that a BSC is held by every boat. The owner pays the insurance,  agreeing that his boat is Certified,nand that the Certificate is valid.

if his BSC is invalid, his insurance is invalid, it does not matter if it becomes invalid two days or ten years after the Certificate is issued, it is still invalid.

On expiry of the BSS  the insurance is not invalidated providing the boat is off the waterways that require a BSSC.

Similarly a boat that is off water may be unlicensed but the insurance remains valid.

My insurance makes no specific mention of BSS and licenses but it does say the boat and the skipper must comply with local regulations.

[LadyG]

7 minutes ago, Momac said:

On expiry of the BSS  the insurance is not invalidated providing the boat is off the waterways that require a BSSC.

Similarly a boat that is off water may be unlicensed but the insurance remains valid.

My insurance makes no specific mention of BSS and licenses but it does say the boat and the skipper must comply with local regulations.

Read line one, sentence one. Millions of boats don't need a BSC, I have not listed them.

[Momac]

10 minutes ago, LadyG said:

The gas hose purchased from a chandlery will be stamped.

With it's date of manufacture.

 

 

13 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Read line one, sentence one. Millions of boats don't need a BSC, I have not listed them.

Yes I mis read

[Alan de Enfield]

15 minutes ago, Momac said:

With it's date of manufacture.

 

 

Typically, a BS EN 16436-1 product should have BS number and date, class of hose with maximum working pressure, inside diameter of pipe, gas identification and an expiry date. These hoses should not be used after the expiry date and should be changed immediately.

For a hose conforming to BS 3212, this hose should show a date of manufacture. It is recommended that these are replaced after a maximum of 10 years of use. 

[LadyG]

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Typically, a BS EN 16436-1 product should have BS number and date, class of hose with maximum working pressure, inside diameter of pipe, gas identification and an expiry date. These hoses should not be used after the expiry date and should be changed immediately.

For a hose conforming to BS 3212, this hose should show a date of manufacture. It is recommended that these are replaced after a maximum of 10 years of use. 

With respect to gas hose, it is essential  to examine it regularly, it is condition that counts.

Condition will generally depend on storage post manufacture and usage post installation.

I used to sign off some instruments,  some of the Chinese hose, (air, not gas)  we had in stock was probably ten years old!

It was still usable, but I managed to get it out the side door  ... and sold our business customers the newer, better stuff.

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

These extra costs levied by the CRT may have been a reasonable idea when they started, but im not convinced that the scheme is anything other than an added expense. If a boat has a Certificate and there has been no change, why is a renewal necessary?

Things break. You could use the same argument with MOTs.

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

Nothing to do with that, the boat must be insured to be on CRT waters,, the CRT demand, and it was not always so, that a BSC is held by every boat. The owner pays the insurance,  agreeing that his boat is Certified, and that the Certificate is valid.

if his BSC is invalid, his insurance is invalid, it does not matter if it becomes invalid two days or ten years after the Certificate is issued, it is still invalid.

Not always understood is that the BSC is only valid at the say and time of issue. Any significant change invalidates it and should be re-certified and then the insurer notified. Rather more commonly I guess is that boaters wait until the next routine date before having the changes inspected.