First Boat purchase.

[Gybe Ho]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Why would a serial hybrid boat owner have range anxiety ?

 

 

Because he is planning to demonstrate to a bloke in the internet that it is possible to cruise from London to Lancaster on sun power and zero diesel engine hours.

[IanD]

13 minutes ago, Gybe Ho said:

 

Because he is planning to demonstrate to a bloke in the internet that it is possible to cruise from London to Lancaster on sun power and zero diesel engine hours.

Which is possible in summer, if you go slowly -- meaning, considerably slower than diesel boats normally do -- or in short bursts with plenty of time to recharge in between.

 

Not what I or many other boaters would do, but not impossible if you've got lots of time to spare...

[Bargebuilder]

4 hours ago, NarrowboatTor said:

Does it come in different colours?

I'd like the idea of a different to black coloured bottom 😁

It comes in light grey as standard, but they can tint to any colour if you buy enough. Boringly, I stuck with grey surface tolerant undercoat and had the top coat tinted to black.

4 hours ago, Gybe Ho said:

As your hull paint has aged does it develop a surface like a new teflon frying pan. That would be perfect

 

I've never tried frying eggs on it, but it doesn't seem to attract marine growth particularly. It is in the sea and has never been antifouled, but antifouling paint hasn't worked properly since TBT!

2 hours ago, IanD said:

Which is possible in summer, if you go slowly -- meaning, considerably slower than diesel boats normally do -- or in short bursts with plenty of time to recharge in between

 

Do any electric motor propelled boats ever travel at 4mph? I dread being stuck behind one, especially if I have a lot of miles to do in a day.

[IanD]

23 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

It comes in light grey as standard, but they can tint to any colour if you buy enough. Boringly, I stuck with grey surface tolerant undercoat and had the top coat tinted to black.

 

I've never tried frying eggs on it, but it doesn't seem to attract marine growth particularly. It is in the sea and has never been antifouled, but antifouling paint hasn't worked properly since TBT!

 

Do any electric motor propelled boats ever travel at 4mph? I dread being stuck behind one, especially if I have a lot of miles to do in a day.

Given that very few diesel boats on most canals manage 4mph, I doubt it... 😉

 

I travel at about the same speed as I did on diesel boats, which is probably why I typically see just over 3kW when cruising, as opposed to the lower powers some report.

 

And of course if a boater wanting to go faster than you -- regardless of your means of propulsion -- comes up behind, the polite thing to do is to let them overtake when there's space to do so -- keeps them happy, and stops you looking over your shoulder all the time.

Edited August 10 by IanD

[Bargebuilder]

7 minutes ago, IanD said:

Given that very few diesel boats on most canals manage 4mph, I doubt it

 

My impression is that average canal cruising speeds are rising (apart from electric boats). I recently did the length of the Leeds and Liverpool and pretty much every boat was pushing a bow wave and doing more than 4mph. Even on the more southern canals, I'm convinced that speed is increasing and manners decreasing.

 

I like to travel at 4mph unless passing moored boats and being stuck behind an electric boat, especially one that pretends there is no-one behind them is irritating. Mercifully, electric boats are rare; long may that continue!

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

I like to travel at 4mph unless passing moored boats and being stuck behind an electric boat, especially one that pretends there is no-one behind them is irritating. Mercifully, electric boats are rare; long may that continue!

 

How are you measuring your speed? 

 

Curious particularly as I have an idea you run a widebeam. Or am I confusing you with someone else? 

[Bargebuilder]

Just now, MtB said:

 

How are you measuring your speed? 

 

Curious particularly as I have an idea you run a widebeam. Or am I confusing you with someone else? 

I used a handheld GPS that I bring with me from my sailing boat.

 

I have got several boats, one of which used to be a new build Dutch barge, but I sold that a few years ago. When I'm on the cut I'm definitely narrow!

 

I did do the K&A in the barge, but it was hell! 

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Bargebuilder said:

 

My impression is that average canal cruising speeds are rising (apart from electric boats). I recently did the length of the Leeds and Liverpool and pretty much every boat was pushing a bow wave and doing more than 4mph. Even on the more southern canals, I'm convinced that speed is increasing and manners decreasing.

 

I like to travel at 4mph unless passing moored boats and being stuck behind an electric boat, especially one that pretends there is no-one behind them is irritating. Mercifully, electric boats are rare; long may that continue!

I've seen plenty of boats pushing big bow waves, often with a breaking wash along the canal banks... 😞

[Bargebuilder]

11 minutes ago, IanD said:

I've seen plenty of boats pushing big bow waves, often with a breaking wash along the canal banks... 😞

Perhaps the recent scramble to buy a narrowboat, any narrowboat, has brought a less thoughtful type of skipper to the cut.

[Quatre_Bougies]

16 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

Perhaps the recent scramble to buy a narrowboat, any narrowboat, has brought a less thoughtful type of skipper to the cut.

Maybe compulsory training, before you can get a licence.  A bit of education, same as when learning to drive.  I know after you’ve passed the test you can drive like an idiot! But still a bit of education might be a good thing?

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Quatre_Bougie said:

Maybe compulsory training, before you can get a licence.  A bit of education, same as when learning to drive.  I know after you’ve passed the test you can drive like an idiot! But still a bit of education might be a good thing?

 

Oh great, just what we all need, more rules. Some of us came onto the cut to escape the government micro-managing our lives, to a degree anyway.

 

Not that it seems to have worked out all that well....

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, Quatre_Bougie said:

Maybe compulsory training, before you can get a licence.

 

You mean, pretty much like the rest of the (Western) world has ?

[IanD]

40 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

You mean, pretty much like the rest of the (Western) world has ?

 

Though most of the rest of the world has lumpy water or rivers or *big* canals, with currents and tides and full of nasty big ships, where lack of training may easily lead to disaster -- for example, not knowing how to choose and deploy an anchor... 😉 

 

In comparison the UK canals (and most of our rivers, with a few exceptions) are much smaller and more benign, with many fewer hazards -- most other places in the world, if you fall overboard something better than "Stand up!" is needed.

 

The only real exception is our antique manually-operated locks, which is where the majority of UK boat accidents happen -- and the training here is not exactly difficult, most hire bases do it pretty quickly. But private boaters may have not even had this, like the one we came across on the L&L who asked "Do I just push the doors open?"

 

Whether from ignorance or lack of attention there are a few boats sunk in locks every year -- many of them hire boats who will certainly have been warned about cills -- but it's difficult to see what kind of training could fix this, distraction is difficult to deal with -- and also causes many car accidents, where every driver has had extensive training over many hours and been tested before getting a license.

[Bargebuilder]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

You mean, pretty much like the rest of the (Western) world has ?

France has the bizarre rule that if you have never stepped aboard a boat before but hire one in France for use on their canals, no qualifications are needed, but if you have had a lifetime's experience on boats and take your own boat over there, you need an ICC qualification plus having passed the  CEVNI exam.

 

It would be like us insisting on qualifications for boat owners, but letting loose hire boaters with nothing; the opposite of what's needed to reduce accidents.

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, Bargebuilder said:

France has the bizarre rule that if you have never stepped aboard a boat before but hire one in France for use on their canals, no qualifications are needed, but if you have had a lifetime's experience on boats and take your own boat over there, you need an ICC qualification plus having passed the  CEVNI exam.

 

It would be like us insisting on qualifications for boat owners, but letting loose hire boaters with nothing; the opposite of what's needed to reduce accidents.

Except quite a lot of the boat accidents on the UK canals seem to happen to private boaters -- the totally ignorant (about canals) new purchaser we encountered on the L&L being one just waiting to happen... 😉 

[Bargebuilder]

8 minutes ago, IanD said:

Except quite a lot of the boat accidents on the UK canals seem to happen to private boaters -- the totally ignorant (about canals) new purchaser we encountered on the L&L being one just waiting to happen... 😉 

Do we really want to encourage the CRT to employ trainers to train examiners to run courses and then employ administrators to manage the office side and issue competence certificates. Who do you think will end up financing that gravy train. 

 

They may even insist on a refresher course every 4 years that we'd also have to pay for.

[LadyG]

16 minutes ago, IanD said:

Except quite a lot of the boat accidents on the UK canals seem to happen to private boaters -- the totally ignorant (about canals) new purchaser we encountered on the L&L being one just waiting to happen... 😉 

But that is an indication of a completeDick, it would not take more than a minute to find that handling  a boat requires a little bit of common sense.

I followed a  boat on the wrong side,  negotiating a blind bend. Did he not think, about conflicting traffic?

Must be thinking " no worries I'm driving on the left"

Once he was clear of the bend I did indicate  the correct side. Then I moored up for a while so I'd not have to go through a lock with him.

 

[Peanut]

2 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

Do we really want to encourage the CRT to employ trainers to train examiners to run courses and then employ administrators to manage the office side and issue competence certificates. Who do you think will end up financing that gravy train. 

 

They may even insist on a refresher course every 4 years that we'd also have to pay for.

The RYA, would be only happy to oblige, it would extend their reach into everything boating even further than yacht racing, for which they were originally formed. Kaching, £££

[Alan de Enfield]

19 minutes ago, Peanut said:

The RYA, would be only happy to oblige

 

 

They already do a lot of inland waterways training.

[Tony Brooks]

39 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

They already do a lot of inland waterways training.

 

No they do not, they FRANCHISE the training to other companies and individuals after they get paid for some sort of training course. That is why the quality use to vary so much, why I was able to make my way in boater training despite the RYA not accepting my national training qualifications unless I paid them and attended their course. Always go by personal recommendation, never equate RYA courses with quality, some are good, some are/were not.

[Bargebuilder]

1 hour ago, Peanut said:

The RYA, would be only happy to oblige, it would extend their reach into everything boating even further than yacht racing, for which they were originally formed. Kaching, £££

Please, not the RYA. They are a self serving money making machine.

If you want to take your boat into France, you have to have an ICC certificate. You can only take the examination from an organisation that pays the RYA, once you pass you then have to pay the RYA again to be issued with a certificate. After 5 years, you have to pay the RYA again to renew the certificate. There is no additional training and no renewal exam, just an additional fee; it's a blatant money making scam.

 

Keep the inland waterways free of pointless exams. Only the people who already obey the rules, look after their boats and pay their licence fee would take the examination, not the ones who have accidents and speed.

[LadyG]

Willow Wren used to run training courses, but i  think they retired, its not an easy thing, becsuse with the RYA tick box courses, the profit is in the training, not in the sitting the test.

I was failed by an RYA examiner, for my Yachtnaster, first thing he said was that the pass rate in Scotland was too high.

Not surprised he then failed me for pilotage (!)

I had sailed alongside  one of the RYA instructors for years, I did all the navigating and knew a lot more than he did about that side.

I then went down to the Solent and did a course, none of the others had much experience, and the Examiner said he was surprised I had failed previously!

I was pretty annoyed, it cost £600 , and i felt I could have run the Course, some were very weak, but we all got the same Certificate. , boosting Sunsail pass rate!

 

Edited August 11 by LadyG

[IanD]

3 hours ago, Bargebuilder said:

Do we really want to encourage the CRT to employ trainers to train examiners to run courses and then employ administrators to manage the office side and issue competence certificates. Who do you think will end up financing that gravy train. 

 

They may even insist on a refresher course every 4 years that we'd also have to pay for.

No we absolutely don't, because there's no real need for it and it wouldn't work unless it was much more in-depth than anything practical.

 

It's a bit like saying that there are frequent occurrences of people falling over amd injuring themselves while walking -- perhaps tripping over a protruding paving-stone or falling off a kerb -- so people should be tested and certified before they're allowed to go out for a walk...

 

The UK canals are generally pretty safe, and the most frequent major problem -- boats sinking in locks, usually due to cilling -- are mostly due to inattention or distraction, which are very difficult to train/test/certify against...

[Bargebuilder]

A friend of mine was an ICC examiner for the RYA. They told him not to fail anybody, just to show them where they went wrong and pass them. It's a money making scam: so long as you pay the fee to the training school and to the RYA, that's all they care about.

[Tonka]

16 minutes ago, IanD said:

No we absolutely don't, because there's no real need for it and it wouldn't work unless it was much more in-depth than anything practical.

 

It's a bit like saying that there are frequent occurrences of people falling over amd injuring themselves while walking -- perhaps tripping over a protruding paving-stone or falling off a kerb -- so people should be tested and certified before they're allowed to go out for a walk...

 

The UK canals are generally pretty safe, and the most frequent major problem -- boats sinking in locks, usually due to cilling -- are mostly due to inattention or distraction, which are very difficult to train/test/certify against...

More likely to trip over a raised tie bar.