Gas and cables

[Manxcat54]

Alright I know I can hear the groans already, I bet this question comes up quite a lot. I am just running my 3/8 gas pipe from my gas locker, which is enclosed door on the side of the boat, I have put a brand new fitting in the bulkhead, all tightened up well, I have read some on bubble test units, but what about a simple test fitting? and where would be the most convenient place to locate this for access? now I have run the gas pipe under the Gunwhale and clipped it with 3/8 size copper pipe clips every 12 inches, so it isn't sloppy. Now I want to run a 230v ring main, and I would like to put the arctic blue cable in some 15mm round flexible trunking, my question is can this be run along side by side with the gas? 

[nicknorman]

Yes.

[Tony Brooks]

12 minutes ago, Manxcat54 said:

I have read some on bubble test units, but what about a simple test fitting? and where would be the most convenient place to locate this for access?

 

Your cooker etc. may already have a test point fitted. I suspect most examiners would expect to find a test point on or close to an appliance. Bubble testers go (I think)  inside the gas tank.

Edited June 27, 2024 by Tony Brooks

[MtB]

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

Bubble testers go (I think)  inside the gas tank.

 

BSS requires them to be inside the gas locker.

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, MtB said:

 

BSS requires them to be inside the gas locker.

Ok, point taken, we always called the lockers the gas tank, because that is what it was, a gas proof tank with a drain at the bottom congaing gas bottles.

[MtB]

11 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

BSS requires them to be inside the gas locker.

 

Quoting myself... I think this is a good example of divergence between BSS and PD54823 or whatever it is called this week. 

 

Last time I read PDwossname (a long time ago), I don't remember it dictating where a bubble tester must be installed. Unlike BSS.

 

Maybe things have changed in the latest issue. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2024 by MtB

[Manxcat54]

OK, but what about my cables

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Manxcat54 said:

OK, but what about my cables

 

Yes - if they are 'double insulated (ie core insulation and an overall sheath) then you can even clip or cable tie them to the copper gas pipe and you'll be fully compliant.

Trust me I read the documents and requirements.

Edited June 27, 2024 by Alan de Enfield

[nicknorman]

32 minutes ago, Manxcat54 said:

OK, but what about my cables

I answered that in the second post! If the cables are inside trunking etc then there is no minimum proximity to gas pipe. And actually a since it is artic flex ie each conductor is insulated, and then it overall sheathed, this is probably good enough even if not in trunking (but I would still run it inside trunking).

[blackrose]

2 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Yes.

 

I agree with Nick. 

 

Well it is election time.

[Manxcat54]

I must have missed it, thank you I can sleep tonight and get stuck in tomorrow

[jonathanA]

I think the op is referring to a a simple test nipple.  Don't know what the regs are but mine is under the gunwhale just outside the gas locker.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, jonathanA said:

I think the op is referring to a a simple test nipple.  Don't know what the regs are but mine is under the gunwhale just outside the gas locker.

 

The regs depend on which set of regs with which one wishes to comply.

 

For passing BSS regs one needs either a test nipple OR a correctly installed bubble tester. Either will do. 

 

 

There might be an accessible test nipple on the inlet of any gas appliance, have a look.

 

 

[LadyG]

8 hours ago, MtB said:

 

The regs depend on which set of regs with which one wishes to comply.

 

For passing BSS regs one needs either a test nipple OR a correctly installed bubble tester. Either will do. 

 

 

There might be an accessible test nipple on the inlet of any gas appliance, have a look.

 

 

I think my test nipple has been installed inside the boat, in a cupboard near the cooker, ie at the end of the line.

[cuthound]

16 hours ago, MtB said:

 

The regs depend on which set of regs with which one wishes to comply.

 

For passing BSS regs one needs either a test nipple OR a correctly installed bubble tester. Either will do. 

 

 

There might be an accessible test nipple on the inlet of any gas appliance, have a look.

 

 

 

Indeed, but at BSS examination time only a Gas Safe registered examiner (with the correct boat and LPG endorsements) can test a gas installation which only has a test point fitted, but any BSS examiner is allowed to press the button on a bubble tester.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2024 by cuthound
To remove a duplicate post.

[Lady M]

I am under the impression that this is not the case with non-residential boats.  My usual BSS examiner is not Gas Safe registered and my leisure boat has a test point not a bubble tester.  Has the rule recently changed?

[nicknorman]

Lady M is correct. The GSIUR specifically exempts leisure (non-residential) boats from itself.

Edited June 28, 2024 by nicknorman

[Lady M]

Presumably where BSS have made gas regs mandatory this over rules GSIUR?

[nicknorman]

7 minutes ago, Lady M said:

Presumably where BSS have made gas regs mandatory this over rules GSIUR?

Im not quite sure what the question is but certainly BSS can have more stringent rules than GSIUR - which doesn’t go into great specifics- but of course BSS can’t over-rule some restriction imposed by GSIUR. There is also the ISO specifically about LPG on boats, and the BSS adds more restrictions to that eg the ISO allows soldered joints whereas BSS doesn’t.

[Lady M]

Just interested.  As I said my BSS man is not Gas Safe registered.  However, the surveyor I used to keep the insurance company happy was and he came up with quite a list of items that he thought needed changing.  I have been trying to work out what to do for the best. 

[nicknorman]

5 minutes ago, Lady M said:

Just interested.  As I said my BSS man is not Gas Safe registered.  However, the surveyor I used to keep the insurance company happy was and he came up with quite a list of items that he thought needed changing.  I have been trying to work out what to do for the best. 

 

Perhaps if you told us what was on the list we could advise? This is the problem with gas, as MtB is often heard to say, is  "which regulations do you want to comply with?"  THe RCD / ISOs, the PD, the GSIUR, the BSS? I would have thought that if the boat complies with the BSS requirements then it can be deemed to be "safe" for the purposes of CRT and an insurance company. Perhaps the GS chap is looking for work? Does he have the specific ticket for LPG on boats? Rules and common practices for houses are quite different in some areas.

Edited June 28, 2024 by nicknorman

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Lady M said:

Presumably where BSS have made gas regs mandatory this over rules GSIUR?

 

One of the early sections in the GSIUR is definitions and scope. The scope of the GSIUR is very carefully defined and covers dwellings or residences (I can't remember which, or the difference even!) but not privately owned leisure craft. 

 

So unless you live aboard (and the meaning of "living" is open to extensive debate), your boat is probably outside of the scope of GSIUR. 

 

If it was built after 1998 then complying with PD 54823 is one way to guarantee it meets the RCD or RCR regulations but there are no formal checks i.e. the boat builder just self-declares compliance whether or not it does. 

 

BSS is the slackest/least stringent set of regs of all and applies to all canal boats with an engine and/or a gas system and/or an electrical installation AIUI. I've an idea an open boat i.e. cabin-less  escapes though, but I'm not sure on that point. 

 

 

 

 

[Galoka]

The gas test point on our NB is underneath the gunwhale where the bedroom is, just before the pipe goes through the wall into a cupbaord in the galley