62' boat in Todmorden - rochdale

[Yannus]

Hello, I'm interested in buying a boat in Todmorden that is 62' long and I'm aware I can't travel eastward because of the lock length and I'm worried about the Rochdale, is it true that it is closed more often than it is open? Will I end up marooned in lovely Todmorden? Will it mean that any trip out will risk not being able to get back for months? I'd like to enjoy the canal system but fear that I may end up frustrated. Todmorden is lovely but am I effectively getting a static boat? Thanks in advance for any advice, I'm a new to this forum so apologies if I'm asking a vague question.

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Don't forget floods too.

A couple of feet shorter will make the canals around there easier to use. Five feet shorter will make it a go anywhere boat.

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/news/rochdale-canal-reopens-after-flood-repairs-completed

 

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Don't forget floods too.

A couple of feet shorter will make the canals around there easier to use. Five feet shorter will make it a go anywhere boat.

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/news/rochdale-canal-reopens-after-flood-repairs-completed

 

60' is pretty much go-anywhere (at least, on the right boat...) but you need to be very careful on locks on places like the Calder and Hebble -- 57'6" is certainly less stressful for most people... 😉 

 

http://www.penninewaterways.co.uk/calder/locks.htm

 

62' is definitely restrictive Oop North...

Edited April 29 by IanD

[dmr]

I can't see into the future well enough to answer your question. The Rochdale has had a lot of stoppages over the last couple of years, its condition is slowly improving but then the CRT money is running out. It has alot of locks and a limited water supply so there will always be a much greater probability of stoppages.

You can get all the way down to Sowerby easily, and could go as far as the Salter Hebble locks (use top lock as a winding hole).

If you want to go further then that means going down into Manchester which is not for the feint hearted, lots of locks through a housing estate where you will get prop fouls from all the rubbish in the water. If you do this once and decide you hate it then you have a problem 😀

Do you need to be based in Todmorden? and where is the boat?

 

Realistically you should allow 5 days to get from Tod to Manchester (though it can be done in considerably less if nothing goes wrong) so thats a 10 day overhead on any trip that you do.

[IanD]

32 minutes ago, dmr said:

I can't see into the future well enough to answer your question. The Rochdale has had a lot of stoppages over the last couple of years, its condition is slowly improving but then the CRT money is running out. It has alot of locks and a limited water supply so there will always be a much greater probability of stoppages.

You can get all the way down to Sowerby easily, and could go as far as the Salter Hebble locks (use top lock as a winding hole).

If you want to go further then that means going down into Manchester which is not for the feint hearted, lots of locks through a housing estate where you will get prop fouls from all the rubbish in the water. If you do this once and decide you hate it then you have a problem 😀

Do you need to be based in Todmorden? and where is the boat?

 

Realistically you should allow 5 days to get from Tod to Manchester (though it can be done in considerably less if nothing goes wrong) so thats a 10 day overhead on any trip that you do.

 

I know you had terrible problems here, but the other side of the story is that we've done it several times with no such problem, just the occasional easily-cleared plastic bag/weed like on any other canal -- though possibly because you cleared all the mattresses and razor wire out of the way for us, so many thanks for that... 😉 

 

We've had much worse prop fouls on other canals, I don't think it's fair to demonise the Rochdale for this (or this or other canals for being "bandit country") -- putting other boaters off a canal just means there are fewer boats using it, which makes it less likely that it will be maintained... 😞 

Edited April 29 by IanD

[dmr]

We've had problems but nothing like what some have experienced. We have had good transits, bad transits, and in-between transits, but I can only try to give impartial advice based on what we have experienced, and from talking to lots of other boats who often have a bad time. Manchester is hard work and there is a significant probability of having some difficulties.

 

Last time we came up we did New Islington to the Ship (top of Slattocks) in a single day with only two minor groundings and one weedhatch visit, so I could say its all really easy.

I know a young lady who got stuck in Newton Heath so left her boat unattended and went for a drink in the pub at lock 69 (the one behind the big steel fence) and had no trouble so I could say that Newton Heath is a really good overnight stop with a great boozer, but that would be giving bad advice. 😀

 

A recent occassional poster here headed down towards Manchester, gave up, and was asking if the forum could recommend a boat mover.

[Yannus]

40 minutes ago, dmr said:

I can't see into the future well enough to answer your question. The Rochdale has had a lot of stoppages over the last couple of years, its condition is slowly improving but then the CRT money is running out. It has alot of locks and a limited water supply so there will always be a much greater probability of stoppages.

You can get all the way down to Sowerby easily, and could go as far as the Salter Hebble locks (use top lock as a winding hole).

If you want to go further then that means going down into Manchester which is not for the feint hearted, lots of locks through a housing estate where you will get prop fouls from all the rubbish in the water. If you do this once and decide you hate it then you have a problem 😀

Do you need to be based in Todmorden? and where is the boat?

 

Realistically you should allow 5 days to get from Tod to Manchester (though it can be done in considerably less if nothing goes wrong) so thats a 10 day overhead on any trip that you do.

The boat (I'll probably buy) is currently in Tod. I don't absolutely need to be there but from my research I'd be very lucky to find anywhere to put it nearby (I'm based in Holmfirth) and it comes with a lovely spot to moor. Thanks for telling me that I can get to Salter Hebble that's a nice day trip I could do many times and that's encouraging. I think I can similarly do a day trip up the Rochdale If I want a work out, maybe half way up and then find a winding hole and come back. But If I want a holiday let's say for a fortnight then I guess I'd just be exploring Manchester and coming back? And if I want to spend a week floating through beautiful tree lined English loveliness then I think I'd have to be away for a month or more. And if I want to make sure I have moorings to come back to then (from what I know so far) I'd also need to head back to Tod by September as the Rochdale is more likely to be closed in winter? I'm not sure if I'm correct about this but someone said that the rochdale is closed often in the winter?

[Jen-in-Wellies]

The things that can typically close canals are locks breaking and lack of water. If a single lock is broken, then that will effectively close the canal to through traffic. The Rochdale has a lot of locks, so the probability of it being closed at any particular time increases. Water availability will depend on how much rain there has been over winter, the leakiness of the lock gates and the number of boats. The number of boats is low and the Pennines are noted for their rain, but the Rochdale lost the use of some of its storage reservoirs in the half century it was closed, so water can run out in a summer dry spell. Add these together and closure to through traffic has a higher probability than some other canals.

Winter planned stoppages will hopefully be for maintenance. More locks mean more maintenance required and again, closure to through traffic while it happens.

It's impossible to say when through navigation will be possible and when not, only guesstimate the probabilities. It is CaRT Roulette.

[Yannus]

12 minutes ago, dmr said:

We've had problems but nothing like what some have experienced. We have had good transits, bad transits, and in-between transits, but I can only try to give impartial advice based on what we have experienced, and from talking to lots of other boats who often have a bad time. Manchester is hard work and there is a significant probability of having some difficulties.

 

Last time we came up we did New Islington to the Ship (top of Slattocks) in a single day with only two minor groundings and one weedhatch visit, so I could say its all really easy.

I know a young lady who got stuck in Newton Heath so left her boat unattended and went for a drink in the pub at lock 69 (the one behind the big steel fence) and had no trouble so I could say that Newton Heath is a really good overnight stop with a great boozer, but that would be giving bad advice. 😀

 

A recent occassional poster here headed down towards Manchester, gave up, and was asking if the forum could recommend a boat mover.

I can imagine being a boat mover was pretty high on the list of best jobs, but paying someone to take your boat over the Rochdale is presumably going to be close to £500 quid at a guess. Thanks for the advice , all advice is good at this stage. I suppose my biggest fear as a new boater is running out of gas and electric/diesel in a middle of nowhere because I can't get back and can't find a marina with space. 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

To add: For longer holidays, you have options taking the boat out of a couple of months in the summer. The Rochdale, Huddersfield and Leeds/Liverpool canals have railways and frequent stations close by. You can moor up somewhere for a week, travel in to work, then move the boat along at the weekend, before commuting in from a new place the following week. Can spend much of a summer doing this. Save your holidays for longer stretches, where commuting is trickier. 

[dmr]

For a few days away its a day down to Hebden, then a short day on to Sowerby. Salter Hebble is not very inspiring but its a nice walk into Halifax. The other way its a day up to the Summit, then best part of another day down to Littleborough. Not much point going further unless you plan to go all the way to Manchester (though a few do).  All canals are closed more in winter because winter maintanance kicks in at the end of October, though last winter (for example) much of the Rochdale was open for much of the winter. Water shortage stoppages are most likely to occur late summer.

Rochdale has a lot of locks and they are wide and deep and some people do not like doing these, if you are not an experienced boater then do make sure that you are happy doing these locks before you buy a boat..

[Jen-in-Wellies]

1 minute ago, Yannus said:

I can imagine being a boat mover was pretty high on the list of best jobs, but paying someone to take your boat over the Rochdale is presumably going to be close to £500 quid at a guess. Thanks for the advice , all advice is good at this stage. I suppose my biggest fear as a new boater is running out of gas and electric/diesel in a middle of nowhere because I can't get back and can't find a marina with space. 

The Pennine canals are all close to civilisation. You can usually get gas/diesel somewhere within walking distance, even if it isn't canalside.

[Yannus]

4 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

The things that can typically close canals are locks breaking and lack of water. If a single lock is broken, then that will effectively close the canal to through traffic. The Rochdale has a lot of locks, so the probability of it being closed at any particular time increases. Water availability will depend on how much rain there has been over winter, the leakiness of the lock gates and the number of boats. The number of boats is low and the Pennines are noted for their rain, but the Rochdale lost the use of some of its storage reservoirs in the half century it was closed, so water can run out in a summer dry spell. Add these together and closure to through traffic has a higher probability than some other canals.

Winter planned stoppages will hopefully be for maintenance. More locks mean more maintenance required and again, closure to through traffic while it happens.

It's impossible to say when through navigation will be possible and when not, only guesstimate the probabilities. It is CaRT Roulette.

Thank you so much for thoroughly quantifying the problem. Maybe this is the reason the boat is a little under priced? If it was somewhere down south it would presumably be worth more? I'm guessing here. But does a good boat in a tricky location become less valuable? 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

Just now, Yannus said:

Thank you so much for thoroughly quantifying the problem. Maybe this is the reason the boat is a little under priced? If it was somewhere down south it would presumably be worth more? I'm guessing here. But does a good boat in a tricky location become less valuable? 

Absolutely. The length restricts its use up North. Do yourself a favour and get one a maximum of 57'6". Go anywhere, no hassle.

[Yannus]

13 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

To add: For longer holidays, you have options taking the boat out of a couple of months in the summer. The Rochdale, Huddersfield and Leeds/Liverpool canals have railways and frequent stations close by. You can moor up somewhere for a week, travel in to work, then move the boat along at the weekend, before commuting in from a new place the following week. Can spend much of a summer doing this. Save your holidays for longer stretches, where commuting is trickier. 

Thanks, fortunately I don't need to travel for work, I can work on the boat as I make my living from being a composer. But I have a lovely studio in my home that is my main production line, so I would like to return home every now and then to finish things. I'm sure I can find friends that can babysit the boat for a while. I'm 5 years from getting my pension too , so probably 10 years from being too creaky to carry on boating. Obviously I want to make the most of this time I have this summer. I think the soonest I could head off is in about a month. Maybe I'd be best taking it all the way down to Oxford and then selling it and getting a 57' for local use.

31 minutes ago, dmr said:

For a few days away its a day down to Hebden, then a short day on to Sowerby. Salter Hebble is not very inspiring but its a nice walk into Halifax. The other way its a day up to the Summit, then best part of another day down to Littleborough. Not much point going further unless you plan to go all the way to Manchester (though a few do).  All canals are closed more in winter because winter maintanance kicks in at the end of October, though last winter (for example) much of the Rochdale was open for much of the winter. Water shortage stoppages are most likely to occur late summer.

Rochdale has a lot of locks and they are wide and deep and some people do not like doing these, if you are not an experienced boater then do make sure that you are happy doing these locks before you buy a boat..

Thanks. For my first trip I'm going to take a friend or too to help out. 

[IanD]

58 minutes ago, Yannus said:

The boat (I'll probably buy) is currently in Tod. I don't absolutely need to be there but from my research I'd be very lucky to find anywhere to put it nearby (I'm based in Holmfirth) and it comes with a lovely spot to moor. Thanks for telling me that I can get to Salter Hebble that's a nice day trip I could do many times and that's encouraging. I think I can similarly do a day trip up the Rochdale If I want a work out, maybe half way up and then find a winding hole and come back. But If I want a holiday let's say for a fortnight then I guess I'd just be exploring Manchester and coming back? And if I want to spend a week floating through beautiful tree lined English loveliness then I think I'd have to be away for a month or more. And if I want to make sure I have moorings to come back to then (from what I know so far) I'd also need to head back to Tod by September as the Rochdale is more likely to be closed in winter? I'm not sure if I'm correct about this but someone said that the rochdale is closed often in the winter?

 

When you say "it comes with a lovely spot to moor" what do you mean -- a residential mooring that you would have tenure of? Is this tied to that particular boat somehow, or is it just "finders keepers"?

 

If possible you might be better off with a 57'6" boat on that very same lovely mooring... 😉

[Yannus]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

When you say "it comes with a lovely spot to moor" what do you mean -- a residential mooring that you would have tenure of? Is this tied to that particular boat somehow, or is it just "finders keepers"?

 

If possible you might be better off with a 57'6" boat on that very same lovely mooring... 😉

My limited experience so far, tells me that the only way to get a mooring is to buy a boat that's in a marina and then negotiate to keep it in the same place. I did the whole nine yards on appollo duck but got nowhere. This marina is more of a boatyard that has about 8 slots, so no tenure just a quarterly contract I think. I'm open to any other suggestions about how to find owned mooring.

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, dmr said:

You can get all the way down to Sowerby easily, and could go as far as the Salter Hebble locks (use top lock as a winding hole).

You can continue past Salterhebble Locks to Salterhebble Basin just below the bottom lock of the Halifax Branch. There is plenty of room to wind a 70 footer here.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Yannus said:

Hello, I'm interested in buying a boat in Todmorden that is 62' long

 

Have you actually measured it? The length of a boat can sometimes change depending whether it is being sold, or licenced. 

[Midnight]

If this is your first boat a 62ft at Tod isn't a great idea for the long run.  Frequent stoppages, shorter locks and the high probability that a trip down to Manchester will throw a few curved balls at you. If you're set on that boat I suggest you look at alternative mooring options on the Peak Forest canal, longer locks and two escape routes but even then the past few years show the Peak Forest and Macclesfield canals suffer a fair few stoppages too.  Better option by far is to look for a 57ft boat and the mooring and 'escape' options will increase significantly. If you own a house you don't need a residential mooring and there a few leisure mooring opportunities on the Calder that I know of now.

 

 

 

Edited April 29 by Midnight

[LadyG]

No one mentioned being iced in at Tod.

As it  happened, I was moored at the pub, so it could have been worse

[Pluto]

If you want a mooring in a marina, you could try Reedley Marina, near Burnley. The Leeds & Liverpool is probably a bit better for pottering about with day or weekend trips. There are other moorings in the area which would be easily accessed by car from Holmfirth. Should you buy the boat, you could spend a couple of years moored in Tod, and then move over to the L&LC.

[IanD]

15 hours ago, LadyG said:

No one mentioned being iced in at Tod.

As it  happened, I was moored at the pub, so it could have been worse

The Golden Lion, I assume? If so things could indeed have been *much* worse, it's a great pub 🙂 

[Pluto]

Just to add, I did put together a choral concert for the 200th anniversary of the L&LC opening throughout, with the music being by composers who had lived close to the L&LC. The concert included a Mass by CHH Booth from Accrington, who emigrated to New York in 1894, where he was organist at one of the main churches there, accompanist for the Metropolitan Opera, and the first person to be recorded playing rag-time music.

[LadyG]

16 hours ago, LadyG said:

No one mentioned being iced in at Tod.

As it  happened, I was moored at the pub, so it could have been worse

I have a 57ft boat, and manage singlehanded, but its  certainly not easy at times, if i wanted a leisure use boat, I'd be looking at a 52 footer, easier to handle, and cheaper.

A lot depends on internal layout,  of course a trad stern has more cabin space. A good boat, well designed internally it could be just as suitable as a longer one.

I'd absolutely avoid a boat over 57ft for cruising up North.

When cruising around looking for a mooring space, there are more likely to be 57ft spaces than 62 ft spaces,  you will soon find you have to judge length, id imagindme judging 62ft to be quite difficult. Of course if you have good crew things are easier to accomplish, but dont imagine it will come naturally.  

Best hire a boat for a week, ( youll need a crew), or pay for lessons before you spend this sort of money.

Edited April 30 by LadyG