Maximum passengers on a 50x10 foot boat

[captain flint]

I've read some of the threads on this subject. I get some of the regulatory/responsibility issues:

 

- there's a max passenger number in my RCD paperwork (8, if memory serves, in the case of my boat)

 

- that if there was an incident with passengers exceeding that number on board the insurance might well not pay out.

 

- I also have read that the maximum number without holding certain RYA(?) papers is twelve

 

I understand that trying to work out what could work in terms of pure payload beyond that is pure guesswork and therefore might sensibly be avoided. 

 

But I am curious, anyway. I'm not saying I won't be sensible in terms of what I actually do, but I feel it's ok to daydream un-sensibly. 

 

My boat measures 50'x10' boat. It weighs about 23 tonnes. It's very well ballasted  (sometimes I think too much for my taste, it really hardly rocks at all). And the drainage etc holes are all a good 15+cm from the water. 

 

How many people does anyone guess I could practically carry before encountering any issues? I'm not saying I'll actually do it. But I would have thought I could carry 25+ before anything untoward was likely to happen, practically speaking. That number is plucked out of the air, but my water tank holds on excess of 1000l, so if that was running very low, that alone would be quite a lot of extra displacement, er, headroom... 

 

What do people think? I'm honestly not saying I'll do it, just curious to imagine. 

[David Mack]

How many do you want?

[Paul C]

[magnetman]

You have to think about what happens if they all decide to move to one side to look at something unusual like a very large bloated dead fish. 

 

 

25 x 80kg is two tonnes. Thats quite a lot of weight. 80 bags of coal. Are they to be inside the cabin or on the outside? 

[Stroudwater1]

Hire firms usually restrict numbers on board to the number of births that the boat can accommodate . 
 

Im not aware of any restrictions otherwise. I’ve known of boaters adding plenty of bystanders to get under low bridges. You often see a number of people on boat at rally’s/historic events. It would be as much about weight as numbers, 12 x 20 stone folk being more than 22 people weighting 10 stone. 
 

You need to ensure that you don’t load too many to get anywhere near ventilation hole especially in the engine, and exit holes for water need to be considered too. 

[Lady M]

The maximum number of people you can take on a moving boat is 12 plus one or two crew.

[Alan de Enfield]

The RCD / RCR requires the maximum weight (then stated in the number of people)  that can be loaded onto one side of the boat and the boat not tilting sufficiently for the water to not flood into the boat (Down flooding angle)

These are actual tests done with weights (stability tests) not theoretical calculation.

 

There is a saftey margin included when the manufacturer actually quotes the number on their certification plate.

 

The numbers quoted will also relate to the waters on which the boat is used, but, a canal boat being Category D (the lowest standard) will rarely quote figures for other waters.

 

You can see on my Category A (Blue Water - Ocean rated boat 38 feet long and 23 feet beam) boat that the numbers increase as the waters get 'safer'.

 

So you can see that I can have 8 people on board in Cat A waters and 14 in Cat D waters

 

 

[magnetman]

6 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

Hire firms usually restrict numbers on board to the number of births that the boat can accommodate . 

 

Presumably they add one each time..

[Stroudwater1]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

 

Presumably they add one each time..

🤣 More with twin berths especially if they prove to be dyslexic 👍

[MtB]

Dyslexic boaters of the world, untie! 

[blackrose]

8 hours ago, captain flint said:

But I would have thought I could carry 25+ before anything untoward was likely to happen, practically speaking. . 

 

You obviously have a very good social life. Either that or you're thinking of going into the people smuggling business?

[magnetman]

They all come to London thinking the streets are paved with gold. They aren't. 

 

There will be a lot of demand for undercover smuggling of peoples out of London to nice areas in the home counties.

 

 

 

 

The Camden to Berkhampstead route. You heard it here first !

[Alan de Enfield]

 

Maybe he is planning a ' Bacchanalia Boat' ?

Edited April 7 by Alan de Enfield

[captain flint]

 I quite like the idea of getting into smuggling people into and out of London. More than I like parties anyway. 

 

I *had* wondered about inviting family and friends on a 50th birthday there and back cruise. Cos, you know, it's finite. There would come a well-demarcated home time. And no, there wouldn't be 25. 

 

But although I think it's precious unlikely that there would be any problem, the potential for issues might be the excuse I need to celebrate the passing of another year in my more customary style: by doing nothing. 

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The RCD / RCR requires the maximum weight (then stated in the number of people)  that can be loaded onto one side of the boat and the boat not tilting sufficiently for the water to not flood into the boat (Down flooding angle)

These are actual tests done with weights (stability tests) not theoretical calculatio

 

Ask a silly question, get an erudite answer. I really do like this forum. 

 

That's really interesting and I had no idea. I thought it was the max number of people allowed on board, and I had always scratched my head about that a bit. Ta! 

 

 

[Iain_S]

4 hours ago, Lady M said:

The maximum number of people you can take on a moving boat is 12 plus one or two crew.

If the 12 are paying passengers, then the boat comes under MCA rules. They don't specify maximum crew numbers, which is governed by stability tests for maximum number on board. One of our local charities has been known to have 12 passengers in wheel chairs, 12 carers, counted as "crew", plus a boat operating crew of skipper plus 2 or 3. The skipper does not hold a Boatmaster licence, just an IWA Inland Waters Helmsman's Certificate. The MCA are happy with this arrangement.

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

If the 12 are paying passengers, then the boat comes under MCA rules. They don't specify maximum crew numbers, which is governed by stability tests for maximum number on board. One of our local charities has been known to have 12 passengers in wheel chairs, 12 carers, counted as "crew", plus a boat operating crew of skipper plus 2 or 3. The skipper does not hold a Boatmaster licence, just an IWA Inland Waters Helmsman's Certificate. The MCA are happy with this arrangement.

 

What size boat is that ?

Edited April 7 by Alan de Enfield

[Iain_S]

27 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

What size boat is that ?

They've got several. 45' or 50', I think, maybe 55'. Beam is about 11'.

[captain flint]

5 hours ago, Iain_S said:

If the 12 are paying passengers, then the boat comes under MCA rules.

Ah right, thanks. Hadn't read those other threads with due care and attention... 

[fanshaft]

10 hours ago, Lady M said:

The maximum number of people you can take on a moving boat is 12 plus one or two crew.

Unless the boat has an MCA certificate and the skipper a Boatmaster Licence plus at least one other member of crew. This applies whether passengers are fare paying or not. 

Put simply - any boat used other than for private pleasure must have skipper with a Boatmaster Licence or if under 24 metres an equivalent eg RYA even if carrying only cargo or up to 12 passengers.

I think the max 12 passengers plus crew was brought in to exclude the many small ferries, which often carry fewer than 12,  from the full MCA regulations.  

I had a small restaurant boat, 52 ft x 12ft 6in which was licensed by MCA for 62 passengers plus up to 6 crew. 

 

 

 

[magpie patrick]

On 07/04/2024 at 02:05, David Mack said:

How many do you want?

I love these old images! But for the OP and others benefit one has to remember these boats were designed to carry 30-50 tonnes of cargo and in images like this had perhaps 3 tonnes of passengers. Unlike modern boats the old working boats didn't have apertures below gunwale height. Put 30 tonnes of cargo on a modern leisure boat and the exhaust, sink outlet etc will be under water. 

 

The accidents I recall on inland waterways with passenger boats were often the result of top heavy loading with too many passengers on the roof. There was also one I seem to recall where passengers were on board during a broadside launch... just putting lots of people in the cargo hold of a canal boat was relatively risk free, even if it would have given a modern MCA inspector apoplexy