What a load of bollards!

[Arthur Marshall]

21 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

 

But you're right, without an effective way of controlling them they'll probably either end up full of non-disabled boaters (abused) or sit empty in areas where moorings are in short supply (unused)... 😞

My point is that, under the present system, them being full of non-disabled boaters isn't abuse - it's perfectly fine unless a disabled boater wants to use it, but then they can't, can they? It's a great idea, but at 4mph, it just doesn't work.

[magnetman]

23 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I reads to me as if the disabled boater group may have given C&RT a 'design brief' of what they thought is needed and then the C&RT 'head of design' came up with the product as shown.

 

Quote :

 

"..................This needs to be factored into the final design, which has been developed by Marcus Chaloner, the Trust’s head of placemaking and design". 

 

(A Camel is a horse designed by a commitee)

what the hell is 'placemaking' ??

Is this a KPI story ?

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

31 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

There are already moorings in various locations designated as disabled moorings, the ones I've seen have normal mooring bollards but they have a disabled symbol embossed on the top and some have been painted red or yellow.  I guess it is down to individuals whether they choose to moor there or not if they don't have a disability.

I’m trying to remember what happened to the ones at Cambrian Wharf?

Are they still designated as disability moorings or did they change them?

I think they painted over the tops in white but they still have the symbol embossed on them.

 

I have on occasion stayed on a disability mooring over night but made sure I’ve remained on the boat until at least dusk in case someone came along who needed it, 

I believe its ok to do that 

 

 

[magnetman]

Maybe there is something where the CRT behave in a certain way in order to get funding

[magnetman]

Minority groups.

Is 'head of placemaking and design' really a job title.

 

Is it a typo and was meant to say 'lace making'.

ok https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placemaking

[Midnight]

37 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I reads to me as if the disabled boater group may have given C&RT a 'design brief' of what they thought is needed and then the C&RT 'head of design' came up with the product as shown.

 

Quote :

 

"..................This needs to be factored into the final design, which has been developed by Marcus Chaloner, the Trust’s head of placemaking and design".

 

(A Camel is a horse designed by a commitee)

 

You may be correct but this is all I can find on the disabled boaters FB page - 8 weeks old. Sounds like C&RT designed it then asked for input

"This is a model of the proposed disabled mooring bollard from crt. It is tall with two sets of arms to make it easier to loop ropes round and will have disabled symbols on top in blue . This is a prototype and Crt would like your  input. Feel free to comment here and I will pass on..........."

Edited January 30 by Midnight

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

8 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Minority groups.

Is 'head of placemaking and design' really a job title.

 

Is it a typo and was meant to say 'lace making'.

ok https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placemaking

 

maybe a job best placed with a volunteer

 

[ditchcrawler]

I thought it interesting CRT don't know where their disabled moorings are at the moment. As for boaters respecting them, the ones on the Llangollen have had the disabled signs ripped off.

Edited January 30 by ditchcrawler

[magnetman]

Its good someone knew what a mooring bollard looks like 

Is it not a 48hr sign which has been removed by someone thinking the law dictates 14 days is allowed everywhere?

[Ronaldo47]

I see that they have acknowledged that the taller bollards would need larger  foundations to cope with the greater bending moment that will arise when a rope is attached at the top of the bollard.  So not a cheap upgrade. 

[ditchcrawler]

25 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Its good someone knew what a mooring bollard looks like 

Is it not a 48hr sign which has been removed by someone thinking the law dictates 14 days is allowed everywhere?

It is a disabled mooring sign, I know it, there are two, pointing towards each other with a wheelchair accessible platform/landing stage between them on the Llangollen just by Whixall Junction. I reported it to CRT at the time. 

[Ian Mac]

What an amazing thread! It seems to have taken most of you ages to spot that there is a group of disabled boat users who have grouped together and formed the AWA, and are campaigning for better facilities, good for them.

As I understand it they are now looking for corporate sponsorship to get these bollards made & installed at popular mooring sites around the country so that these disabled users can have a slightly easier life. So no cost to Cart. They just have to agree to where these locations should be. They seem to be talking about less than a dozen popular places, where it would be helpful to have them, which I sure you can all rattle off a list. A starter for 10 - Paddington, Gas Street, etc, So there would be one mooring at each location where a registered disabled boater would have priority. Does not seem to be OTT. Disability is a very wide word though, and includes lots of people, most of whom are prepared to make the necessary struggle to have access to canals, as I think this thread proves, and certainly personal experience has demonstrated. I was single handing down Audlem recently with another single hander in front, he was finding it near impossible to work the locks by about 6 down, so I ended up working both him and me down to lock 10 and the town pound, its part of what we do on the canals, help each other.
The partially sighted really like canals, but it can be very hard for them in busy areas, such as the two I have mentioned, Blue and Yellow colours really help a lot of those people. Having boated with a wheelchair bound person on a historic boat I can tell you it can be very hard, but we do it by choice.
Now can we have some constructive ideas and feedback please, rather than ranting at each other.

--

cheers Ian Mac

 

[ditchcrawler]

5 minutes ago, Ian Mac said:

What an amazing thread! It seems to have taken most of you ages to spot that there is a group of disabled boat users who have grouped together and formed the AWA, and are campaigning for better facilities, good for them.

As I understand it they are now looking for corporate sponsorship to get these bollards made & installed at popular mooring sites around the country so that these disabled users can have a slightly easier life. So no cost to Cart. They just have to agree to where these locations should be. They seem to be talking about less than a dozen popular places, where it would be helpful to have them, which I sure you can all rattle off a list. A starter for 10 - Paddington, Gas Street, etc, So there would be one mooring at each location where a registered disabled boater would have priority. Does not seem to be OTT. Disability is a very wide word though, and includes lots of people, most of whom are prepared to make the necessary struggle to have access to canals, as I think this thread proves, and certainly personal experience has demonstrated. I was single handing down Audlem recently with another single hander in front, he was finding it near impossible to work the locks by about 6 down, so I ended up working both him and me down to lock 10 and the town pound, its part of what we do on the canals, help each other.
The partially sighted really like canals, but it can be very hard for them in busy areas, such as the two I have mentioned, Blue and Yellow colours really help a lot of those people. Having boated with a wheelchair bound person on a historic boat I can tell you it can be very hard, but we do it by choice.
Now can we have some constructive ideas and feedback please, rather than ranting at each other.

--

cheers Ian Mac

 

I can only think of five locations that are marked for disable moorings at the moment, but there are probably more. 

Great Haywood just below the lock

Llangollen canal Whixall Junction 

Banbury by the shops 

Braunston by Butchers bridge 

Middlewich Branch near the Aqueduct 

[Arthur Marshall]

22 minutes ago, Ian Mac said:

Now can we have some constructive ideas and feedback please, rather than ranting at each other.

--

cheers Ian Mac

 

There's been plenty of feedback as well as the rants. Just because it's critical doesn't mean it isn't constructive in the proper sense of the word. Sometimes, pointing out that something is a terrible idea, unnecessary, or simply unworkable, is the most constructive thing you can do.

I still haven't had any suggestions as to how, in real life, this shared space can be, well, shared.

[magnetman]

The registered disability thing is interesting. 

 

Not all disabilities are visible and although I am physically able and capable of tying up a Boat to anything which is handy I do have a registered disability under the equality act. 

 

I am also eligible for a blue badge but as I have given up driving cars there is no need for it. 

 

I would not dream of using a mooring provided for disabled people but some might. 

 

This all seems to be heading down the conflict road. Even micro-conflicts between users can have significant effects on wellbeing. 

 

The CRT is currently focused on wellbeing. This is a very hard nut to crack and one could question whether a body whose primary function is to be a navigation authority (or is it? ) should be engaging in this. 

 

Yes some people have major physical issues which limit their behaviour. It is not ideal but that is life. 

 

If the function of the CRT moves too far away from management and maintenance of the canals and rivers under their jurisdiction I can see Bad Things happening. 

 

 

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, magnetman said:

If the function of the CRT moves too far away from management and maintenance of the canals and rivers under their jurisdiction I can see Bad Things happening. 

 

 

Surely they are doing it INSTEAD of managing and maintaining the navigation. Because there it not enough money to do the latter, but plenty for the former which costs peanuts in comparison. 

 

 

[magnetman]

Priorities change over time. 

 

One wonders how people who can't tie a Boat to a normal mooring bollard or post would be able to deal with the rather arduous task of going up or down a lock. 

[ditchcrawler]

24 minutes ago, magnetman said:

  The CRT is currently focused on wellbeing. This is a very hard nut to crack and one could question whether a body whose primary function is to be a navigation authority (or is it? ) should be engaging in this. 

 

Is it their primary function?

[Alan de Enfield]

4 hours ago, magnetman said:

Is 'head of placemaking and design' really a job title.

 

'Placemaking' is laying the table for lunch / dinner and ensuring each 'place' is correctly designed and set out according to the food to be served.

[IanD]

17 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Priorities change over time. 

 

One wonders how people who can't tie a Boat to a normal mooring bollard or post would be able to deal with the rather arduous task of going up or down a lock. 

Maybe those people can deal with a lock because they don't have to bend down, but have difficulty with low bollards -- perhaps you could ask them instead of wondering?

 

Also there may be no locks near the moorings... 😉

[magnetman]

3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Is it their primary function?

I wonder about that as well hence the bit in brackets. 

 

Maybe the useability of the canals is secondary to making life better by water. 

Just now, IanD said:

Maybe those people can deal with a lock because they don't have to bend down, but have difficulty with low bollards -- perhaps you could ask them instead of wondering?

 

Also there may be no locks near the moorings... 😉

I think your second paragraph is probably the answer here. 

 

Boats come out of the marina for a break but do not go through locks. 

 

This is a Clever strategy in a number of different ways but not a model which promotes maintenance of moveable structures like locks and some bridges. 

 

 

[MtB]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

I wonder about that as well hence the bit in brackets. 

 

Maybe the useability of the canals is secondary to making life better by water. 

 

 

Survival of the administrative body itself is No 1 priority. 

 

Anything else is a distant second. 

 

 

[IanD]

11 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Is it their primary function?

Maybe not any more given the KPIs and constraints imposed on CART -- millions of non-boaters seem to be more important than thousands of boaters in the mind of the government, and he who pays the piper calls the tune... 😞

Edited January 30 by IanD

[magnetman]

Just now, MtB said:

 

 

Survival of the administrative body itself is No 1 priority. 

 

Anything else is a distant second. 

 

 

Is it really that bad? 

 

Are we seeing the decline of a once Great Britain? Being unable to manage something as basic as a municipal water supply system without resorting to dumping thousands of tons of shit into natural gravity driven watercourses is another clue. 

This sort of thing should have been dealt with decades ago. 

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Survival of the administrative body itself is No 1 priority. 

 

Anything else is a distant second. 

Doing what their masters tell them is the #1 priority. Boaters are a distant second... 😞