Internet for working with great upload speeds

[Christie9723]

Hello, 

I  am new to the boating world and am looking to get a 12 volt router and sim (Arial if needed) to allow me to work from my boat. I need good upload speeds as I upload data from the office on to my laptop and plug the office phone in to the router to be connected to the office. I have found a post saying that these maybe the best for this but am looking for any advice as really confusing. RUTX50 INDUSTRIAL 5G ROUTER, Smarty sim and a Poynting MIMO-3-17 - 5G / 4G / GPS / WiFi Antenna. 

Many thanks

[DaveP]

It will depend entirely on where you are.  Are you in a marina or other mooring with neighbours? If so, ask around and see what works for them.  If you are cruising around - what area(s) are you intending to cover?  There will be places (in my immediate experience the Lower Heyford area is still and quiet on all bands and network providers) where no amount of kit will fulfil high-speed needs without radical out-of-box reimaginings.  What speeds do you need to achieve, or is it merely a daily/weekly quantity of data that needs to be shifted? Is the phone video or merely audio?

 

[IanD]

24 minutes ago, Christie9723 said:

Hello, 

I  am new to the boating world and am looking to get a 12 volt router and sim (Arial if needed) to allow me to work from my boat. I need good upload speeds as I upload data from the office on to my laptop and plug the office phone in to the router to be connected to the office. I have found a post saying that these maybe the best for this but am looking for any advice as really confusing. RUTX50 INDUSTRIAL 5G ROUTER, Smarty sim and a Poynting MIMO-3-17 - 5G / 4G / GPS / WiFi Antenna. 

Many thanks

 

If you don't need a dual SIM the Zyxel NR5103E router (which will also run on 12V, mine does just that) does pretty much the same for a quarter of the price, and is 4x4 MIMO not 2x2 which can give better coverage or higher data rates in some circumstances.

 

I looked at that Poynting antenna but at the time it didn't cover the 1450MHz band which EE use for extended rural coverage in some places, so I got a Panorama GPSD4-6-60 which does and is specced as having a bit higher gain, but these are not easy to find and/or *very* expensive (I paid about £240, similar to the Poynting).

 

But overall you're looking at spending at least £400 (or a lot more with the Teltonika), and you might well get away with something a lot cheaper if you're mainly moored in one place with decent reception. If you want the best chance of good data rates while moving around, the more expensive solutions will provide this if you can afford them.

 

If you really want high data rates almost everywhere then Starlink is a possibility, but this is *very* expensive for the roaming/RV option which you need to be able to move around -- about £100 per month IIRC...

Edited January 22 by IanD

[Christie9723]

Many thanks for getting back to me. For the 1st Year we will be in a marina with trips away when we can, but for the most part on the Grand Union. I need to achieve an upload speed of at least 9 Mbps. I am basically logging in to my office PC and the office system, so using a VPN to do this and uploading to see what my office PC see's, if that makes sense. 
 

Thanks IanD. This is very helpful. 

[IanD]

7 minutes ago, Christie9723 said:

Many thanks for getting back to me. For the 1st Year we will be in a marina with trips away when we can, but for the most part on the Grand Union. I need to achieve an upload speed of at least 9 Mbps. I am basically logging in to my office PC and the office system, so using a VPN to do this and uploading to see what my office PC see's, if that makes sense. 
 

It does, and the types of setup you're looking at will provide that in some places, but not all -- I found that though I could usually get download speeds of 30Mbps or more, upload was (as usual) a lot slower (5Mbps or lower?), not a problem for normal internet use but not so good for you.

 

If you already know where the marina is, I suggest you visit it with a decent 5G phone and run some speed tests -- from my experience a good 4x4 MIMO antenna like the Poynting/Panorama will give at least the same data rates as a phone outdoors, and often better in poor signal areas because of having bigger and higher gain antennae.

Edited January 22 by IanD

[doratheexplorer]

25 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

 

 

If you really want high data rates almost everywhere then Starlink is a possibility, but this is *very* expensive for the roaming/RV option which you need to be able to move around -- about £100 per month IIRC...

Everywhere other than under trees, as I understand it.

[IanD]

1 minute ago, doratheexplorer said:

Everywhere other than under trees, as I understand it.

Just like mobile -- which is why I said "almost everywhere"... 😉

Edited January 22 by IanD

[doratheexplorer]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

Just like mobile -- which is why I said "almost everywhere"... 😉

I've never had difficulties with mobile coverage under trees.  Is this unusual?

[IanD]

8 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I've never had difficulties with mobile coverage under trees.  Is this unusual?

I have -- especially in the rain -- for internet use. It entirely depends where you are and how good the signal level is. Mobile *coverage* for voice/SMS still works where data rates for internet access are too low to be usable, even for normal downloads/streaming not the 9Mbps upload the OP is looking for.

 

Starlink is more prone to attenuation from trees and rain then mobile signals because it works at a higher frequency. OTOH when you're anywhere with a good view of the sky the data rates are high nearly everywhere, even where mobile is bad out in the sticks. If you're spending a fortune on Starlink it would be worth also spending much less on a decent mobile setup, and a router that can use both -- though not at the same time for the same data stream (true aggregation not alternate switching), that's another whole level of cost...

Edited January 22 by IanD

[dmr]

As said, it all depends on where you are and what network you have available.

For example, Three has good coverage and is cheap but because of this is over subscribed and can get very slow at times.

If you use any mobile network then speed will be variable and will drop at busy times, and there might even be the occassional pause when nothing happens.

I see about a 4 to 1 variation in download speed with my Vodafone SIM throughout the day, maybe a bit less variation in the upload.

A lot depends on if you need the high speed always available or if you can choose your work times.

[IanD]

39 minutes ago, dmr said:

As said, it all depends on where you are and what network you have available.

For example, Three has good coverage and is cheap but because of this is over subscribed and can get very slow at times.

If you use any mobile network then speed will be variable and will drop at busy times, and there might even be the occassional pause when nothing happens.

I see about a 4 to 1 variation in download speed with my Vodafone SIM throughout the day, maybe a bit less variation in the upload.

A lot depends on if you need the high speed always available or if you can choose your work times.

 

EE has more consistent coverage than Three especially outside big towns and cities, due to the differences in the bands the networks use. Three place more priority on 5G in towns and cities so can be better there, if they're not oversubscribed -- which they often are (especially at busy times) because they offer the cheapest unlimited data deals, which attracts the really heavy users. See here:

 

https://www.opensignal.com/reports/2023/09/uk/mobile-network-experience

 

Vodafone generally comes in third and O2 last -- but these are all averages collated over the whole of the UK, so things can be different in one particular spot.

 

If most of your time is spent in one marina, apart from talking to other users there it would be worth getting a cheap one-month SIM on each of the networks and comparing speeds, or maybe one of the multi-network SIMs which allow you to use any (but are *very* expensive).

 

I'd guess that 9Mbps upload is going to present a challenge in many places, you'll need either a 5G signal or a good 4G+ one for this, which might only happen in towns/cities and not everywhere even there...

 

 

Edited January 22 by IanD

[robtheplod]

I used a Draytek 2620 router (with external poynting aeriel) with Vodafone and rarely have any issues....

[Tacet]

2 hours ago, Christie9723 said:

Hello, 

I  am new to the boating world and am looking to get a 12 volt router and sim (Arial if needed) to allow me to work from my boat. I need good upload speeds as I upload data from the office on to my laptop and plug the office phone in to the router to be connected to the office. I have found a post saying that these maybe the best for this but am looking for any advice as really confusing. RUTX50 INDUSTRIAL 5G ROUTER, Smarty sim and a Poynting MIMO-3-17 - 5G / 4G / GPS / WiFi Antenna. 

Many thanks

Isn't data from office to laptop more likely to be download?

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, Tacet said:

Isn't data from office to laptop more likely to be download?

Usually, but it depends on what you're doing and how you're using the VPN -- in some remote access cases like we do you need similar (and high) speeds in both directions to avoid intolerable lag.

 

The OP did say "I need good upload speeds as I upload data from the office on to my laptop and plug the office phone in to the router to be connected to the office." -- the first one is download, and phones don't need anything like 9Mbps in either direction.

[Christie9723]

No it is definitely upload I need. I have been working remotely for years now but never on a boat with a mobile router. After more research I have now learned that I should be looking for one that supports 6G as spending hundreds of pounds I need to be sure it is an up to date model. Yikes. I am soooo confused. Can I get a router that is 12 volt and has built in antenna? I have been looking at the D-Link DWR-2101 but this is not mains powered.... 

IanD, I cannot find the ones you suggested online

 

[IanD]

24 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

I used a Draytek 2620 router (with external poynting aeriel) with Vodafone and rarely have any issues....

For what kind of internet/data use?

 

Downloads/media streaming aren't usually a problem (I didn't have any problems on my last trip from Sheffield to Anderton, even in the countryside), but anything that needs high upload speed (e.g. VPN -- the OP said he needed 9Mbps but didn't really explain what for...) can have problems unless you have a decent 5G/4G+ connection, which usually means in towns/cities.

[jonathanA]

5 minutes ago, Tacet said:

Isn't data from office to laptop more likely to be download?

yes but the OP talks about accesssing his office PC and implies hes controlling that remotely which would be different to say VPNing in to an corporate environment and using say teams. 

 

i found that using my phone as a local 'hotspot' i could work adequately using VPN/Teams including Video and audio calls.   using things like on drive (and google equivalents) there should be little real need for large file downloads to local devices. (yes there will always exceptions) .  Phone in the window was needed in my case !.

 

I then replaced that with an £80 who are we Bsomething or another  4G router and a couple of cheap magmount 1/4 wave stub antennae and 100GB/Month sim - and its been fine for work and more importantly the Dark Lord can stream strictly etc. to the 'smart' TV. 

 

I'd agree with the earlier suggestion and suggest the Op tether to their phone to see how it goes as a starting point. 

[IanD]

10 minutes ago, Christie9723 said:

No it is definitely upload I need. I have been working remotely for years now but never on a boat with a mobile router. After more research I have now learned that I should be looking for one that supports 6G as spending hundreds of pounds I need to be sure it is an up to date model. Yikes. I am soooo confused. Can I get a router that is 12 volt and has built in antenna? I have been looking at the D-Link DWR-2101 but this is not mains powered.... 

IanD, I cannot find the ones you suggested online

 

This might be a silly question -- how do you know you need 9Mbps upload, as opposed to the fast download that normally comes with it?

 

I think you mean 5G, 6G doesn't even exist yet 😉

 

You can get the Three NR5103E (they're all unlocked) on contract but only if you use Three and sign up for 24 months (£20pcm IIRC). If you want to be able to choose networks (e.g. EE) it's widely available secondhand (often unused, they're ones which have been returned to Three) on eBay and CEX for about £150, but doesn't support dual-SIM. It has a 12V DC input that normally comes from a mains adapter, on a boat a cheap 12V DC-DC converter works fine -- don't power anything like this straight off the boat 12V unless it's specifically designed for that, it's too variable and noisy.

 

For your case you really want an external antenna on a boat, putting a router with an inbuilt antenna (which many have, including the NR5103E) inside a steel box will give poorer reception, especially given your need for high data rates.

 

Going to the marina with your phone and a pile of cheap SIMs will show you what rates to expect on each network -- at least from there as opposed to cruising round the system.

Edited January 22 by IanD

[Christie9723]

Sorry, wifi 6 (wireless connection???) was what I read about. I probably do not need 9Mbps upload speed as I think once it gets over 4 or 5Mbps it works fine. 9Mbps is what I have at the moment.  And to be honest I dont think I need duel sim either. 

Can you let me know if mains adapter will work as the converter in a boat will change it to 12 volt? Sorry for my naivety, just new to all of this.

I will have a look at your suggestion now.

Thank you everyone for your time. Appreciate it

 

[robtheplod]

26 minutes ago, IanD said:

For what kind of internet/data use?

 

Downloads/media streaming aren't usually a problem (I didn't have any problems on my last trip from Sheffield to Anderton, even in the countryside), but anything that needs high upload speed (e.g. VPN -- the OP said he needed 9Mbps but didn't really explain what for...) can have problems unless you have a decent 5G/4G+ connection, which usually means in towns/cities.

Remote work which sounds similar to OP. I often upload large media files.

[GUMPY]

WiFi 6 will be of very little benefit unless the things that you are connecting to it are also WiFi 6, many are not.

[IanD]

Most modern routers support WiFi 6 -- but you don't really need this anyway because you don't have an internet connection running at hundreds of Mbps.

 

If you have mains on the boat (e.g. via an inverter) then any router will work just fine, just plug it in.

 

If you want the router to work even if the inverter is off (e.g. when away from the boat for remote monitoring) then you need to power it from the 12V battery. But not directly, a DC-DC converter to provide a clean regulated 12V output is only a few pounds.

 

https://www.digikey.co.uk/en/products/detail/sparkfun-electronics/COM-18732/15927228

 

14 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

Remote work which sounds similar to OP. I often upload large media files.

 

Files aren't usually the problem unless they're truly massive (GB!) so long as you can wait a bit or transfer in the background.

 

Anything where you're remotely accessing a database in real time (e.g. editing layouts, remote display) is more of a problem, a lot of lag/latency makes this unusable.

 

Our remote access usage with people working from home involves editing of massive layout databases held on a secure server, with the user PC acting as a remote video display and controller (mouse/tablet) for the software running on the server -- many companies use this type of access nowadays (e.g. VNC) because the big data can be locked securely away, all the user does is remotely log in to the editing software using client software on their PC.

 

For anyone doing this, you need decent data rates in both directions for it to be usable. Don't know if the OP is doing something like this, from the description I suspect not...

Edited January 22 by IanD

[GUMPY]

It's all about location location location.

If you are in a marina with lots of residents then there is very little you can do to improve the speed, the only thing that you can do is to use a network that no one else is using.

If your boat is steel then you will need an external antenna unless you put the router on the roof.

Best is to use 5ghz WiFi as the 2.4ghz WiFi will be slow.

Most routers can be run direct from the boats 12v supply but I would advise something like  THIS to regulate the voltage.

You may be better sticking to 4g as it will only mean 1 external antenna rather than two and the speed you talk of are easily obtainable in the right location.

 

I run a Huawei 5g CPE pro2 for my internet at home (no landline or fibre) and normal speeds are 250/15 mbs 

Before that it was a 4g Huawei B818 that used to return 85/18mbs both in the same location 

 

 

Add 4g

 

Edited January 22 by GUMPY

[IanD]

9 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

It's all about location location location.

If you are in a marina with lots of residents then there is very little you can do to improve the speed, the only thing that you can do is to use a network that no one else is using.

If your boat is steel then you will need an external antenna unless you put the router on the roof.

Best is to use 5ghz WiFi as the 2.4ghz WiFi will be slow.

Most routers can be run direct from the boats 12v supply but I would advise something like  THIS to regulate the voltage.

You may be better sticking to 4g as it will only mean 1 external antenna rather than two and the speed you talk of are easily obtainable in the right location.

 

I run a Huawei 5g CPE pro2 for my internet at home (no landline or fibre) and normal speeds are 250/15 mbs 

Before that it was a 4g Huawei B818 that used to return 85/18mbs both in the same location 

 

Add 4g

 

 

Many 4G routers use MIMO to improve reception and increase data rates too, not just 5G, and these would need 2 external antennas or a 2x2 MIMO antenna which are quite cheap.

 

In a good signal area without too much congestion 4G will work fine, if there's a decent 5G signal then it will be faster -- but often only on download, upload can be similar or even slower sometimes.

 

But it is all about location -- I'm in West London and all the mobile networks here are pretty useless... 😞

[Paul C]

There's varying levels of sophistication:

 

1. Tether from your existing phone. Can be good (if your phone is 5G, for example). Sometimes rubbish due to being inside the boat (you'd not leave your phone on the roof, right?)           £0

2. Mifi unit hung in a window      ~£25

3. Mifi unit with external aerial    ~£50

4. "posh/expensive" mifi              £50+

 

Since (1) can often achieve the speeds of (4), it is worth trying (1) first.

 

It is ALL about location when your on the edge of decent mobile phone coverage, which you will often be on canals (but might not be if your stationary at one particular marina).