Help!!! My beta 35 won't behave 😒

[Amphibian Man]

Hello everyone.

My beta35 is being a pain. I turn the ignition on having heated the preheater first. The starter motor runs and the two belts turn. Smoke sort of drifts from the exhaust in a lazy manner. And that's it. The engine won't fire up.

With my limited knowledge I checked oil levels in engine and gearbox. All wiring is in place. Fuel is getting through the two filters. Can anyone help me with some much needed advice please 🤔🤔🤔

[Quattrodave]

Any chance of a short video, this may help to show how quickly it turning over?

 

Edit

If smoke is coming from the exhaust its probably injecting fuel.  Can you measure starter battery voltage? Anyone nearby with a big set of jump leads??

Is your stop leaver pushed fully home??

Edited January 7 by Quattrodave

[Tony Brooks]

37 minutes ago, Quattrodave said:

Is your stop leaver pushed fully home??

 

Many Betas use a stop solenoid and if they have been left energised for some reason then the insulation can melt and gum the thing up, so make sure any stop solenoid has been pushed fully to run.

 

I agree, the battery voltage while cranking would be a big help. It may well be a low cranking speed.

[Tracy D'arth]

Check that the heater plugs are working. White smoke means it is injecting but not igniting due to either too slow cranking (Battery not fully charged) or no heaters working and a cold engine.

 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

1 hour ago, Amphibian Man said:

 

With my limited knowledge I checked oil levels in engine and gearbox. All wiring is in place. Fuel is getting through the two filters. Can anyone help me with some much needed advice please 🤔🤔🤔

But have you checked you starter battery voltage with a meter?

 Simply sounds like a flat starter battery.

[Amphibian Man]

Thanks everyone. Does being hooked up to the mains make a difference? If the starter battery is flat, would the engine fire up from the mains?

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Amphibian Man said:

Thanks everyone. Does being hooked up to the mains make a difference? If the starter battery is flat, would the engine fire up from the mains?

 

No.

But if you have a battery charger (and it is switched on) the mains should recharge the battery.

[Amphibian Man]

Thanks again.

[Tony Brooks]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

No.

But if you have a battery charger (and it is switched on) the mains should recharge the battery.

 

That is, as long as it is connected to the start battery. unless it has two outputs, they are often wired to the domestic battery only. However, decent jump leads between the domestic and engine bank would allow a single output charger to charge both banks, or it may well be enough to actually let it start.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

28 minutes ago, Amphibian Man said:

Thanks everyone. Does being hooked up to the mains make a difference? If the starter battery is flat, would the engine fire up from the mains?

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I think you need to get a local experienced boater to explain how things work on your boat, to run you through the charging ststem and the basics, as it’s far better getting things explained by someone who has “eyes on” as we can’t see your setup, charging system, multiplus inverter, alternators, battery set up.👍

Edited January 7 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Victor Vectis]

11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

No.

But if you have a battery charger (and it is switched on) the mains should recharge the battery.

'Should'

But not it the charger part of the combi has failed, as looks to be the case last time I went up to the boat.

Starter battery flat, leisure batterys well down too.

 

Engine wouldn't fire even with leisure and starter batteries joined with a jumper lead.

 

New starter battery fitted (thank you Mr RLWP)

Engine fired first time!

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

That is, as long as it is connected to the start battery. unless it has two outputs, they are often wired to the domestic battery only. However, decent jump leads between the domestic and engine bank would allow a single output charger to charge both banks, or it may well be enough to actually let it start.

 

Good point - I never gave it a thought as every charger I have had had on a boat has always had at least 2 outputs (1x house bank & 1x Starter)

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

Looking at his first Thread on here it looks like he has a combi inverter/charger and reading that thread suggests he has Charging problems through alternator and inverter, also all his batteries could be knackered, as couldn’t get 240v through inverter(low battery warning) and now no starter battery. 
 But he never got back with any replies to his inverter 240v problem, if it was sorted, so I doubt it was and maybe all batteries need replacing as not holding charge?
 

Edited January 7 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[Amphibian Man]

Hello everyone again. Thanks so much for your input I am pretty sure the inverter is all OK. I will have another go at things and report back. 

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, Amphibian Man said:

Hello everyone again. Thanks so much for your input I am pretty sure the inverter is all OK. I will have another go at things and report back. 

 

Just to be sure that you understand. First many inverters are both an inverter and battery charger, while others are just inverters, and some boats have  a separate battery charge and inverter. You won't get many sensible replies unless you tell us what you have in the current thread. Expecting people to remember since last March is not really very fair.

 

A combi-inverter (inverter and charger all in one case) will usually charge both battery banks, whereas a charger may well just charge one, usually the domestic bank.

 

A combi-inverter can fail in just one part, so you can have it providing 240VAC but not charge the batteries.

 

When people ask for things like voltage readings or photos, it is usually because hey have more knowledge of the subject that the poster, so they need more information to make any diagnosis more reliable. If the requested info is not provided, all you will get is guesses, maybe somewhat informed guesses, but guesses just the same. The less information given, the less informed such guesses will be.

 

 

Your symptoms as posted very much suggest a low cranking speed for some reason, but that is a guess. To be more accurate, we need to know the battery voltage while cranking. My guess is that you will find it well below 10 volts, but why that might be requires more testing, because it could be a flat start battery caused by not charging, a faulty battery, or a wiring fault, like a bad master switch or poor connection.

 

 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

@Tony Brooks it’s a Combi inverter, on his first thread on this Forum he wrote what is highlighted below and you  replied many times to it. We don’t know if this issue was ever sorted? Reading both threads it sounds like the batteries aren’t holding charge and are probably knackered, worse case alternator and Combi Inverter are not charging also. 
 

“Hi folks,

I am in a pickle. My inverter has decided not to work. The engine runs fine. The 12 v is working. But the battery low light on the inverter is red and I have no 240v. I am new to canal life so seem to be asking and taking more than I give on this forum. If anyone can help I would be extremely grateful. It's a Victron Phoenix combi  12 1600 75”

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

9 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

@Tony Brooks it’s a Combi inverter, on his first thread on this Forum he wrote what is highlighted below and you  replied many times to it. We don’t know if this issue was ever sorted? Reading both threads it sounds like the batteries aren’t holding charge and are probably knackered, worse case alternator and Combi Inverter are not charging also. 
 

 

“Hi folks,

I am in a pickle. My inverter has decided not to work. The engine runs fine. The 12 v is working. But the battery low light on the inverter is red and I have no 240v. I am new to canal life so seem to be asking and taking more than I give on this forum. If anyone can help I would be extremely grateful. It's a Victron Phoenix combi  12 1600 75”

 

 

 

The fact remains that to make a meaningful diagnosis, we need facts and figures. I think you will find the bit you quote was posted last March. I ask if it is reasonable or considerate to expect people to remember details about one boat some 8 months ago.

 

I agree that your diagnosis may be correct, but that can not be confirmed unless the OP starts providing some voltages when asked (he may be taking them now). Once we have the initial ones, we may well ask for more under different conditions to narrow down the problem. The only other way is fault-finding by substitution, and that can quickly become very expensive.

 

An alternative might be a faulty master switch fitted in the negative or a pair of faulty master switches, but we can't know unless the voltages are given or some other procedure we recommend is followed and the results reported.

[Amphibian Man]

I do appreciate how beneficial photos and readings would be. I shall do what I can and get back ASAP. Thanks again.

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Amphibian Man said:

I do appreciate how beneficial photos and readings would be. I shall do what I can and get back ASAP. Thanks again.

 

Remember, it is a step-by-step process, so any readings you give are likely to prompt for more actions.

[Amphibian Man]

Sure. I get that 👍.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Amphibian Man said:

Thanks so much for your input I am pretty sure the inverter is all OK.

 

And sweeping statements like this don't help, when there is obviously "something" wrong!

 

Not unless you say what leads you to suspect it is "OK", and what you mean by "OK". Input and output voltages for example, and/or what the status lights (if any) are saying. 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

40 minutes ago, Amphibian Man said:

Sure. I get that 👍.

How old are your batteries? Have you tested if they are holding charge? As you never got back with any replies from your 1st Thread on here about low batteries. 1st thing you need to do is test your starter battery to see if it’s not knackered.

 

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

The fact remains that to make a meaningful diagnosis, we need facts and figures. I think you will find the bit you quote was posted last March. I ask if it is reasonable or considerate to expect people to remember details about one boat some 8 months ago.

 

I agree that your diagnosis may be correct, but that can not be confirmed unless the OP starts providing some voltages when asked (he may be taking them now). Once we have the initial ones, we may well ask for more under different conditions to narrow down the problem. The only other way is fault-finding by substitution, and that can quickly become very expensive.

 

An alternative might be a faulty master switch fitted in the negative or a pair of faulty master switches, but we can't know unless the voltages are given or some other procedure we recommend is followed and the results reported.

 With Newbies I find it’s always wise to check previous posts to get an idea of previous issues that could be linked to the new issue, the common denominator here seams to be knackered old batteries and charging. Also the initial description of lazy turn over sounds classic flat battery.

 

[ditchcrawler]

5 hours ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

 

 

 With Newbies I find it’s always wise to check previous posts to get an idea of previous issues that could be linked to the new issue, the common denominator here seams to be knackered old batteries and charging. Also the initial description of lazy turn over sounds classic flat battery.

 

Sorry but with the number of posts on here every 24 hours for me that is not going to happen

 

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, ditchcrawler said:

Sorry but with the number of posts on here every 24 hours for me that is not going to happen

 

Me too. I think it is bordering on rude to expect people to do that, but I don't think it is deliberate in most cases. It is just that people don't think or feel they don't know what may be important

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

You haven’t got to read all or reply to every Thread, it was this post from the OP that made me think he may be a bit green, since he had similar battery issues back in March and never confirmed he sorted anything out, obviously it looks like he didn’t and his batteries are Kaputt. Not rude but thinking a bit more instead of writing long posts when the problem seams pretty obvious. 

 

20 hours ago, Amphibian Man said:

Does being hooked up to the mains make a difference? If the starter battery is flat, would the engine fire up from the mains?