Remote Access to devices.

[sigsegv]

Been dying for a reason to post this for a while I actually built up a fairly nice remote telemetry system for my boat - stuff mostly goes into a raspberry pi then pushes it to a remote server running Grafana so I can make fancy charts of power, weather, movement, etc. Wouldn't be the cheapest thing to do if building it from scratch but it was cobbled together mostly from stuff we already had installed, it all just needed connecting to the pi in some way.

 

http://blog.narrowboat.life/2023/09/19/narrowboat-telemetry/

 

Your use of teamviewer to remotely control the device is ingenious by the way!

[GUMPY]

Nice looking system, means I would have to learn  R-Pi having failed once 😟

I spent ages with mine trying to find a BT to WiFi converter before I had the TeamViewer moment then it all became so obvious.

 

[rusty69]

51 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

Nice looking system, means I would have to learn  R-Pi having failed once 😟

I spent ages with mine trying to find a BT to WiFi converter before I had the TeamViewer moment then it all became so obvious.

 

Installing victron venus OS on a raspberry pi i found really straight forward, an I am in no way geeky. 

 

I haven't as yet connected the JBD to the pi, but believe that is pretty simple too. 

 

However, if you system works for you, without the need for manual intervention /rebooting the remote phone etc, that's great. 

 

Will be interested how you get on with it long term. 

[jonathanA]

28 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

However, if you system works for you, without the need for manual intervention /rebooting the remote phone etc, that's great. 

the sigsegv system looks superb and well done for sharing all the info but its OTT for me. 

 

i've been playing with team viewer for a few days now, and apart from having to take pin locking security off the remote phone so far it just works.  I particularly like being able to switch on the camera front or back and see whats going on remotely. Obviously not as good as proper IP CCTV with motion sense and alerting etc, but I don't really need that at the moment. 

 

 

[IanD]

One advantage of the Victron gear/system (including VRM access) is that it's all maintained/updated and doesn't rely on expert knowledge (or much effort) by the boater -- so any new features (like the enhanced solar/wind support) are debugged by both Victron and the community and then become available to everyone for free -- as well as various user-written add-ons for specific systems. Another example is that there's a major new UI upgrade due for release shortly (guiV2) to replace the one that's been in use for many years but is not the most user-friendly.

 

If you're thinking longer-term, another plus point is that this (hardware and software) is all widely known and supported long-term should the boat ever be sold on, in contrast to not only boater-built solutions but also custom ones from builders -- if they ever go bust then there's no support in future.

 

Of course if you have the knowledge to put together a home-brewed system and relish the challenge of both building and maintaining it (should any maintenance be needed) then more power to your elbow... 🙂

 

(and if you think that all this remote control and monitoring is technology gone mad, nobody's forcing you to do any of this...)

 

Before anyone says I'm exaggerating the advantages/disadvantages of the different approaches, this is the kind of thing I do for a living, and I looked into all the pros and cons before deciding which way to go -- and I'd rather have a boat that just works and where somebody else does all this -- especially in future -- than spend my time doing it. But that's just my personal view, others may see it very differently... 😉

[sigsegv]

2 hours ago, IanD said:

Before anyone says I'm exaggerating the advantages/disadvantages of the different approaches, this is the kind of thing I do for a living, and I looked into all the pros and cons before deciding which way to go

Indeed and my solution is close to what I used to do for a living (among other things  ) so it was perfect! We did look into going the venusOS route but why go for a turnkey solution when you can hack together a frankensolution  

I considered offering this as a full solution to other boaters but after running the numbers, it just didn’t make sense cost-wise for myself or the consumer - too small a market, too costly a setup

Edited January 4 by sigsegv

[blackrose]

On 02/01/2024 at 14:29, nicknorman said:

Pretty much anything is a possibility. There is a possibility that when you get into a road vehicle, the brakes might fail as you approach a downhill tight bend, and you might die. But you still get into the vehicle because you know the brake system has been designed to have a very low failure rate, and there is a backup system (hand brake). The advantages of powered road transport massively outweighs the very remote possibility that the brakes might fail and injure or kill you.

 

I'm not sure your analogy works precisely because of the massive advantages of powered transport that you mentioned. In contrast most people who don't live aboard their boats also don't have remote control devices fitted, so I can't see that the advantages are quite as significant.

[rusty69]

3 hours ago, jonathanA said:

the sigsegv system looks superb and well done for sharing all the info but its OTT for me. 

 

i've been playing with team viewer for a few days now, and apart from having to take pin locking security off the remote phone so far it just works.  I particularly like being able to switch on the camera front or back and see whats going on remotely. Obviously not as good as proper IP CCTV with motion sense and alerting etc, but I don't really need that at the moment. 

 

 

That's good to know. 

 

I remember playing with TeamViewer about 10 years ago with limited success. Whilst useable it was not without user intervention. Maybe things have improved since then. 

[IanD]

8 minutes ago, sigsegv said:

Indeed and my solution is close to what I used to do for a living (among other things  ) so it was perfect! We did look into going the venusOS route but why go for a turnkey solution when you can hack together a frankensolution  

I considered offering this as a full solution to other boaters but after running the numbers, it just didn’t make sense cost-wise for myself or the consumer - too small a market, too costly a setup

 

Any solution only understood by its designer/builder is a potential nightmare in the future if they're no longer available or able to provide support, unless it's *extremely* well documented and coded -- especially if it's a proprietary solution using customised components and OS, like many of the the ones being supplied by some high-tech boatbuilders. This was what put me off some of them when I was looking at who to get to build my boat -- it's actually a big issue for anyone using any kind of modern technology which includes software and hardware which have to talk to each other and the outside world.

 

As well as future support, what happens if/when you want to change/modify/add things to the system later -- how easy is this to do for anyone apart from the original builder?

 

If it's your own boat for your pleasure and you don't have to worry about any of this (including what happens if you ever sell it) then that's all fine... 😉

[sigsegv]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

As well as future support, what happens if/when you want to change/modify/add things to the system later -- how easy is this to do for anyone apart from the original builder?

I'm sure the boat builders see this as a feature not a bug But yes that's the downside of closed-source, proprietary solutions (as well as custom-built stuff).

[IanD]

2 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

I'm not sure your analogy works precisely because of the massive advantages of powered transport that you mentioned. In contrast most people who don't live aboard their boats also don't have remote control devices fitted, so I can't see that the advantages are quite as significant.

 

So don't fit such a system... 😉

 

2 hours ago, sigsegv said:

I'm sure the boat builders see this as a feature not a bug But yes that's the downside of closed-source, proprietary solutions (as well as custom-built stuff).

 

... and the upside of a Victron-based system using networked supported components (including battery/BMS) and hardware/software. Not for everyone, but there's a good reason that their kit is so widely used, and it's not just the quality (or cost...) of the hardware... 😉

 

Here's an example of pre-release (by several months!) evaluation/debugging of the new GUI in progress:

 

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/249509/venus-os-v32034-available-for-testing.html

Edited January 4 by IanD

[GUMPY]

TeamViewer cost if not being used for business £0.00

Cost of remote phone £10

 

Extra Victron kit to make the system work cost £££££.

 

If you can control the units on a  phone/tablet  from inside the boat you can do it remotely with TeamViewer.

 

I won't need any of this on the new boat 🤔

 

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

TeamViewer cost if not being used for business £0.00

Cost of remote phone £10

 

Extra Victron kit to make the system work cost £££££.

 

If you can control the units on a  phone/tablet  from inside the boat you can do it remotely with TeamViewer.

 

I won't need any of this on the new boat 🤔

 

 

Like I said, if you want to do it yourself (and cheaply!) then feel free, nobody's *making* you spend money on Victron gear 🙂

 

If installing electrical stuff on a new boat then the balance may well tilt in favour of something commercial and supported, for the reasons I said -- and if you're spending thousands on this anyway, the extra cost to make it networkable is small, or even zero.

[rusty69]

9 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

TeamViewer cost if not being used for business £0.00

Cost of remote phone £10

 

Extra Victron kit to make the system work cost £££££.

 

If you can control the units on a  phone/tablet  from inside the boat you can do it remotely with TeamViewer.

 

I won't need any of this on the new boat 🤔

 

A lot of it isn't extra victron kit though, it's kit that you would buy anyway. You, yourself said you have some victron stuff. Perhaps it already came with the van/boat, and wouldn't have been your first choice if buying new. 

 

So, as I mentioned earlier, the addition of a 20 quid raspberry pi, some homebrew cables you have a workable system for not a lot of money,depending on what it is you want to monitor/control. 

 

Obviously you can chuck as much money at these things as you like by buying a cerbo for example. 

 

One reason I wanted it was not for remote access, but the Bluetooth range in the boat is limited, and as such a more reliable signal is achieved through the WiFi /Internet. 

Edited January 4 by rusty69

[IanD]

11 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

A lot of it isn't extra victron kit though, it's kit that you would buy anyway. You, yourself said you have some victron stuff. Perhaps it already came with the van/boat, and wouldn't have been your first choice if buying new. 

 

So, as I mentioned earlier, the addition of a 20 quid raspberry pi, some homebrew cables you have a workable system for not a lot of money,depending on what it is you want to monitor/control. 

 

Obviously you can chuck as much money at these things as you like by buying a cerbo for example. 

 

One reason I wanted it was not for remote access, but the Bluetooth range in the boat is limited, and as such a more reliable signal is achieved through the WiFi /Internet. 

 

The point is that it doesn't matter how you do it, if you spend significant time (or most of it) away from the boat then remote monitoring/control can be very useful -- for example in my case it detected the shore power disappearing (which the marina wasn't aware of), lets me check temperatures and frost protection in winter (and turn the heating/hot water on before I arrive at the boat), and allows shoreline power monitoring so I know if I need to ring up the marina and get them to walk down to the boat and put more credit on the meter (which can't be done remotely).

 

Yes none of this is *essential*, but that doesn't stop it from being useful... 🙂

Edited January 4 by IanD

[Bacchus]

2 hours ago, GUMPY said:

TeamViewer cost if not being used for business £0.00

 

 

I used to use TeamViewer to maintain my (then) 95 year-old mother's PC remotely. All was going well until they decided that my use was "commercial" and not only wanted me to pay for the service, but were quiet aggressively demanding to backdate the payment for several months.

 

Not saying that I don't think it's a good product, but they don't like giving anything away for free, and the customer relations team were complete holes. I wouldn't touch them with a ten-foot pole.

 

I worked out a way of using remote desktop on a dynamic IP instead. Free and, as it turned out, better. There are emulators for controlling the mobile phone from a PC, but I think your solution will be easier to set up as long as they honour the non-commercial use licence.

[rusty69]

6 minutes ago, Bacchus said:

 

I used to use TeamViewer to maintain my (then) 95 year-old mother's PC remotely. All was going well until they decided that my use was "commercial" and not only wanted me to pay for the service, but were quiet aggressively demanding to backdate the payment for several months.

 

Not saying that I don't think it's a good product, but they don't like giving anything away for free, and the customer relations team were complete holes. I wouldn't touch them with a ten-foot pole.

 

I worked out a way of using remote desktop on a dynamic IP instead. Free and, as it turned out, better. There are emulators for controlling the mobile phone from a PC, but I think your solution will be easier to set up as long as they honour the non-commercial use licence.

And what a lot of the reviews say about it on playstore.

[GreenHeaven]

you are suing a sim card for internet access I assume?

[GUMPY]

1 hour ago, GreenHeaven said:

you are suing a sim card for internet access I assume?

Yes one of these:

 

Three Mobile Pay As You Go Mobile Broadband 24 GB data SIM https://amzn.eu/d/aN5JUzz

 

It won't use that much so this should last 2 years. It could run on WiFi if there is one present.

[Alway Swilby]

On 01/01/2024 at 11:29, rusty69 said:

Cheapskate🤣

I must say I'm missing the little Christmas tree!

 

[IanD]

3 hours ago, Alway Swilby said:

I must say I'm missing the little Christmas tree!

 

 

Blimey, your batteries are cold -- mine (sitting on the baseplate) haven't got below 4C this winter...

 

Edited January 17 by IanD
number corrected

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Blimey, your batteries are cold -- mine (sitting on the baseplate) haven't got below 5C this winter...

 

 

Were they not at about 4C 3 times in December ?

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Were they not at about 4C 3 times in December ?

Typo -- I started with the temperature today, then added the picture but didn't change the number... 😉

 

Never even close to 0C though, and even less so -1C minimum. For boats charging at fractional-C rates this is still fine at even lower temperatures, but most commercial BMS will stop charging at 0C.

Edited January 17 by IanD

[GUMPY]

Two sets of batteries in my garage one working powering the house, it's  temp is at 16deg. The peaks overnight are charging from the grid.

 

 

One in storage waiting to go to the van is at 8.5deg.

 

[Alway Swilby]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

Blimey, your batteries are cold -- mine (sitting on the baseplate) haven't got below 4C this winter...

 

They are sitting on the swim close to the engine bay vent. The vent is facing north so there will be a bit of a breeze through there. I blame Ricky, he put them there 😀