Remote Access to devices.

[GUMPY]

Let me set the scenario:

My battery, charger, solar charger all are accessible via Bluetooth so using a couple of apps I can read data from them over a phone. That's fine when I'm in the proximity but not when I'm away.

I am thinking that using a spare mobile phone running TeamViewer I could connect to the phone remotely and use my phone to control it, thus I could read the data from the screen and know what the state of the battery/chargers is.

@nicknorman do you have any thoughts on this?

 

[rusty69]

If you have victron gear and an always on internet connection, you can use a cerbo or raspberry pi.

[Tonka]

for what benefit ?

[GUMPY]

21 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

If you have victron gear and an always on internet connection, you can use a cerbo or raspberry pi.

I do have some Victron gear, Battery isn't but Cerbo is £££. TeamViewer is free and  have a spare phone.

Looks like  the idea will work as I sending this from my phone controlled by my tablet🤔

 

As for why, because I can and I'm a data junkie.

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

I do have some Victron gear, Battery isn't but Cerbo is £££. TeamViewer is free and  have a spare phone.

Looks like  the idea will work as I sending this from my phone controlled by my tablet🤔

 

As for why, because I can and I'm a data junkie.

Raspberry pi then, about 20 quid on ebay. Works for me, although you would ideally require a smart shunt. The BMS, if its a JBD can be connected to a pi I believe (check this), but you would then have to trust the state of charge reading from it.

 

The good thing about the victron mppts and cerbo/pi is that you can remotely turn on/off the charger if required (as well as other things), though I haven't had reason to do so.

Edited January 1 by rusty69

[GUMPY]

7 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Raspberry pi then, about 20 quid on ebay. Works for me, although you would ideally require a smart shunt. The BMS, if its a JBD can be connected to a pi I believe (check this), but you would then have to trust the state of charge reading from it.

 

The good thing about the victron mppts and cerbo/pi is that you can remotely turn on/off the charger if required (as well as other things), though I haven't had reason to do so.

Yes but it's already up and running with the same control as I have using the Apps for zero cost and only a few minutes time reminding myself how TeamViewer works.

I fought with a R-Pi when they first came out not going down that road again.

 

Did I mention I'm a cheapskate

No shunt needed as BMS has it effectively built in.

 

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

Yes but it's already up and running with the same control as I have using the Apps for zero cost and only a few minutes time reminding myself how TeamViewer works.

I fought with a R-Pi when they first came out not going down that road again.

 

Did I mention I'm a cheapskate

No shunt needed as BMS has it effectively built in.

 

It has it built in, yes. How effectively it operates is debatable. Its not called 'drift' for nothing. Still, I understand you are a cheapskate, and 30 quid for a pi is rather a lot, not to mention the cable. Hope you can find a way for teamviewer to allow you to  do more than view. I will read with interest.

[GUMPY]

8 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

It has it built in, yes. How effectively it operates is debatable. Its not called 'drift' for nothing. Still, I understand you are a cheapskate, and 30 quid for a pi is rather a lot, not to mention the cable. Hope you can find a way for teamviewer to allow you to  do more than view. I will read with interest.

Yes it gives me full control of the apps just as if I had the phone in my hand.

I had forgotten what a useful piece of software  it is, I used to use it at work years ago.

Now just got to configure the old phone so it has the relevant stuff on it.

Also decide whether I use my router or put the sim in the phone, one less pof if i just put it in the phone.

Main reason for this is so I can look at the solar output v battery charging on cold days to see how much heating is going on.

  

 

[rusty69]

4 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

Yes it gives me full control of the apps just as if I had the phone in my hand.

I had forgotten what a useful piece of software  it is, I used to use it at work years ago.

Now just got to configure the old phone so it has the relevant stuff on it.

Also decide whether I use my router or put the sim in the phone, one less pof if i just put it in the phone.

Main reason for this is so I can look at the solar output v battery charging on cold days to see how much heating is going on.

  

 

Cheapskate🤣

[GUMPY]

After a light lunch in the pub and the rest of the afternoon playing with my devices I have the system fully up and working 😎

Only glitch is that you have to open the app and connect once locally before you can connect remotely 😲

Other than that it works cross platform from both Windows and Android. 

It works seamlessly with both the Fogstar app and the Victron app and in fact I can install and run any app on the phone that doesn't require a restart 🤔

Only hardware required are a 4g phone to install tha apps on and a data SIM both of which I had lying about. 

The battery and charger in the screenshots are not connected hence the odd readings.

 

 

 

 

 

All I have to do is find time to install the battery and charger at present both are in my workshop.

 

 

All in all a good afternoon's playing😉

[nicknorman]

Using teamviewer is a really good idea!

[Tonka]

Reason why I asked what the benefit is because I was staying at a relatives house before Xmas. He is into technology and has his lights controlled by Alexa and and his heating controlled by Tado. While we were there his phone line went U/s and then he couldn't control his lights. He also couldn't use his heating. 

[nicknorman]

10 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Reason why I asked what the benefit is because I was staying at a relatives house before Xmas. He is into technology and has his lights controlled by Alexa and and his heating controlled by Tado. While we were there his phone line went U/s and then he couldn't control his lights. He also couldn't use his heating. 

We have a lot of lights at home controlled via internet / Alexa. But they all have a manual override if necessary. The heating is mostly controlled by an App on my phone, but again there is local manual override if necessary. Certainly, it you create a system that is totally dependant on the internet AND you need it to always be working, you are making a mistake. But if you only need it to be working MOST of the time, and when it is working it adds convenience, then why not?

Your car might at some point break down, but that is not a good reason never to travel by car.

[Tonka]

14 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

We have a lot of lights at home controlled via internet / Alexa. But they all have a manual override if necessary. The heating is mostly controlled by an App on my phone, but again there is local manual override if necessary. Certainly, it you create a system that is totally dependant on the internet AND you need it to always be working, you are making a mistake. But if you only need it to be working MOST of the time, and when it is working it adds convenience, then why not?

Your car might at some point break down, but that is not a good reason never to travel by car.

But why do I need an app to tell me that the batteries are not charging. I can tell that by the fact that my engine is not running. So they must be discharging 

[rusty69]

6 minutes ago, Tonka said:

But why do I need an app to tell me that the batteries are not charging. I can tell that by the fact that my engine is not running. So they must be discharging 

You don't. Does that mean other people shouldn't? The OP already gave his reasons. 

[Tonka]

Just now, rusty69 said:

You don't. Does that mean other people shouldn't? The OP already gave his reasons. 

But everyone is paying for it because a lot of devices have it built in and you can't seem to buy stuff without

[GUMPY]

20 minutes ago, Tonka said:

why do I need an app to tell me that the batteries are not charging. I can tell that by the fact that my engine is not running. So they must be discharging 

It's more about telling me what my solar is doing when the caravan is in storage and I am not there. There are demands on the system, alarm etc so if solar fails the batteries will go flat. With this system I will know before it happens.

 

On the boat I had a system that warned me by SMS if the batteries went below 75% in October 22 they dropped four nights on the trot being recharged every day by the solar.  Alarm bells rang in my head so I went up to the boat to find one battery had a shorted cell. If this had been left the battery may have exploded,  so I am glad I had a warning system in place.

Fine if you don't want warnings of failure that's your prerogative 

21 minutes ago, Tonka said:

everyone is paying for it because a lot of devices have it built in and you can't seem to buy stuff without

You are not looking in the right place

[blackrose]

16 hours ago, Tonka said:

for what benefit ?

 

I think the main use of remote monitoring is for geeky types to see what's going on with their solar charging, batteries, whether their bilge pump has activated, etc, because most of the time everything will be normal. However, as well as remote monitoring some people have remote control of some systems, so heating could be switched on remotely for example during a cold snap when one is away from the boat. Also as Julian says, if one notices something odd then you could call a neighbour to investigate or go yourself. I can see bilge pump monitoring useful in that respect.

 

However, I'm not sure about remote control of systems. Couldn't it introduce as many problems as it solves? Imagine you think you've switched off your Webasto for example and that's what the monitor is telling you, but in fact it just keeps going until it runs out of fuel and drains the tank or even malfunctions and causes a fire. Is that a possibility?

Edited January 2 by blackrose

[nicknorman]

5 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

However, I'm not sure about remote control of systems. Couldn't it introduce as many problems as it solves? Imagine you think you've switched off your Webasto for example and that's what the monitor is telling you, but in fact it just keeps going until it runs out of fuel and drains the tank or even malfunctions and causes a fire. Is that a possibility?

Pretty much anything is a possibility. There is a possibility that when you get into a road vehicle, the brakes might fail as you approach a downhill tight bend, and you might die. But you still get into the vehicle because you know the brake system has been designed to have a very low failure rate, and there is a backup system (hand brake). The advantages of powered road transport massively outweighs the very remote possibility that the brakes might fail and injure or kill you.

 

For you, living on board permanently, perhaps the advantage of remote control heating is minimal. For us, living 7.5 hours from the boat, it is huge. After a day-long winter drive, arriving at a freezing cold cold-soaked boat in the dark is not much fun. Whereas with the remote control heating, we arrive at the pleasantly warm boat.

 

So first of all, if for some reason the heating did fail to turn off, we are en route to the boat anyway so it wouldn’t matter. But secondly, the system is designed “fail safe” so that it needs a phone message to turn on, but it then turns off automatically 2 hours later. I can also phone the boat and there is a microphone adjacent to the heater, so I can hear if it’s running or not.

 

So in 11 years, no issues. I’m sure there is some extremely remote possibility of an adverse failure mode, but it would seem that this is outweighed by the strong advantages.

[GUMPY]

  I have to agree with Nick about the heating, in all the time I used the remote system there was only one failure and that was to switch on so we arrived to a cold boat. I didn't check that I had got a reply from the system to say the relay was on so the SMS must have got lost on its way to the boat.

Never used the diesel heater as frost prevention preferring to use electric radiators, worst that could happen if they stayed on was the meter running out of credit and that I couldn't top up remotely 😲

 

[IanD]

1 hour ago, GUMPY said:

  I have to agree with Nick about the heating, in all the time I used the remote system there was only one failure and that was to switch on so we arrived to a cold boat. I didn't check that I had got a reply from the system to say the relay was on so the SMS must have got lost on its way to the boat.

Never used the diesel heater as frost prevention preferring to use electric radiators, worst that could happen if they stayed on was the meter running out of credit and that I couldn't top up remotely 😲

 

 

In contrast, I use a diesel heater (pressure-jet CH boiler) for frost protection, because it's built in (and remotely controllable), keeps the whole boat warm, and can run for far longer on a tank of fuel than electric heating with a typical size meter credit... 🙂

 

Since I left the boat in October this has used about 20l of diesel (fuel level is also remotely monitored) which is roughly 200kWh.

Edited January 2 by IanD

[GUMPY]

However burning diesel produces particulates not good for anyone near the boat!

[jonathanA]

thanks @GUMPY i was unaware of teamviewer and having had a play with it this morning it looks a good option, although I had to disable my pin on the controlled phone. 

 

thanks for the post/idea !

 

[GUMPY]

8 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

thanks @GUMPY i was unaware of teamviewer and having had a play with it this morning it looks a good option, although I had to disable my pin on the controlled phone. 

 

thanks for the post/idea !

 

I run team viewer on my device and TeamViewer Host on the remote device.

Glad to have been of help😎

[IanD]

On 02/01/2024 at 10:55, GUMPY said:

However burning diesel produces particulates not good for anyone near the boat!

True -- though about 2 gallons per month of diesel is not much, it's about a fifth of what a typical diesel car burns, and most of it is burned overnight when it's coldest and there's nobody around. Still, I agree it's not ideal -- but then there is never an ideal solution where boats are concerned, as I'm sure you know full well... 😉

 

And of course *far* lower levels of particulates than the boat next door who -- going by the aroma this morning -- is burning wood, and lots of it... 😞