Cr@ppy problem on new (old) NB - to cassette or not to cassette?

[magnetman]

The term 'self pumpout' always makes me feel a little uncomfortable. 

[ruthieruthruth]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

The term 'self pumpout' always makes me feel a little uncomfortable. 

I think the trick is to remember that it's from the boat...😉

[magnetman]

20 minutes ago, IanD said:

I meant somewhere where it's acceptable to do a self-pump-out, not an Elsan point. Presumably these exist since other posters have this equipment...

Interesting. 

 

What are you thinking of here? Just lifting a manhole and using the sewer directly? Surely there are laws about that for a number of different reasons not least putting the lid on properly afterwards. 

 

I'm genuinely interested to know what alternatives you might think there are for using an onboard pumpout discharge kit. 

 

 

1 minute ago, ruthieruthruth said:

I think the trick is to remember that it's from the boat...😉

Yes I would like to think of it as onboard discharge equipment. 

[ruthieruthruth]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

Interesting. 

 

What are you thinking of here? Just lifting a manhole and using the sewer directly? Surely there are laws about that for a number of different reasons not least putting the lid on properly afterwards. 

 

I'm genuinely interested to know what alternatives you might think there are for using an onboard pumpout discharge kit. 

 

 

Hopefully someone who knows will chime in with something more than "private mooring private sewer access"

[magnetman]

1 minute ago, ruthieruthruth said:

Hopefully someone who knows will chime in with something more than "private mooring private sewer access"

 

I don't think any legal options exist. 

 

 

 

It is problematic because unless you know for a fact what the deal is it might not be a sewer. There might be a sump with a pump of some sort so no way would you want to risk anyone else putting anything in it. 

 

We occasionally get people asking to use the pumpout at the mooring. The answer is always NO because it is a complex system with two pumps which will go wrong easily. One never knows what products anyone else has put in the thing. Ideally the only things one should put through a lavatory are things which have traversed ones neck but people are not always strict with this. 

 

Its not worth it. 

 

 

[IanD]

43 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

Because I post when I know stuff, not just because I like the sound of my own voice.  I posted earlier on this thread as I’d seen mobile pump-out boats.   I don’t know anything more so I’ve not added to it. 🙄

 

My last comment could be useful if some of the posters on here posted less often and with more useful info instead of trying to score points and ruin another thread. 😂

I’ve only got one on ignore as the comments were just beyond bitter and unhelpful. If I ignored the rest I’d be pretty much seeing nothing.  😂

Agreed 100%, which is exactly what I was trying to do by pointing out that posts implying that the OP wouldn't have a problem if she moved around more were unhelpful, and typical of the disdainful responses that often put newbies off CWDF.

 

So if anyone with more knowledge of that bit of the canal than me and/or a self-pumpout kit can suggest where one could be legitimately used less than 3 hours away, that would be helpful 🙂

 

22 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

I don't think any legal options exist. 

 

It is problematic because unless you know for a fact what the deal is it might not be a sewer. There might be a sump with a pump of some sort so no way would you want to risk anyone else putting anything in it. 

 

We occasionally get people asking to use the pumpout at the mooring. The answer is always NO because it is a complex system with two pumps which will go wrong easily. One never knows what products anyone else has put in the thing. Ideally the only things one should put through a lavatory are things which have traversed ones neck but people are not always strict with this. 

 

Its not worth it. 

 

 

So where do people with self-pumpout kits (widely available, and IIRC owned by some CWDF posters) get rid of their effluent?

 

Hopefully not down an Elsan point which can't cope with it -- or up the walls of the cubicle in some cases... 😞

Edited January 5 by IanD

[MtB]

18 minutes ago, IanD said:

So if anyone with more knowledge of that bit of the canal than me and/or a self-pumpout kit can suggest where one could be legitimately used less than 3 hours away, that would be helpful 🙂

 

I'd be interested to hear too, where self-pumpout kits can be used not at an Elsan point. About a decade ago there were a couple of long and bitter threads on here about the viability of self-pumping out, or not. Started IIRC by a poster commenting on visiting an elsan with sewage sprayed all up the walls and an inch deep on the floor, and suggesting the culprit was a solo boater self-pumping out. 

 

The problem is, when on the boat operating the pump, the solo boater cannot be monitoring the outlet end of the hose and if it jumps out of the elsan when the pump starts and snakes around spraying effluent around, how would the boater know until they turned their pump off at the end of their pumping-out process? 

 

Then if they discover they've made a massive mess of the Elsan, they have a decision to make. A) spend an hour clearing it up or B ), quickly cruise away. 

 

So whatever the merits or otherwise of self-pumping out, this is the reason anyone planning to self-pump out may need a somewhat thick skin, in order to ignore the degree of social opposition they may encounter.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 5 by MtB
Add a bit.

[magnetman]

13 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

 

So where do people with self-pumpout kits (widely available, and IIRC owned by some CWDF posters) get rid of their effluent?

 

Hopefully not down an Elsan point...

...Generally down an Elsan point. 

 

 

I have observed other types of action but I don't think they were using a permission based behaviour system. 

 

It is a tricky one. 

 

In theory people who use the onboard discharge kits via Elsan points should be incredibly severely scapegoated and castigated. 

The logical outcome of their actions is that the CRT may take the view that the cleanup bills end up being too expensive, they are not obliged to provide the service so may as well remove it. 

 

If Other Boaters were to give people using these pump systems a Stern Look then carry on maybe behaviour would change. 

 

Scapegoating can be quite rewarding and yield unexpected positive results. 

 

 

Edited January 5 by magnetman
grammar. Same word used twice

[nealeST]

1 hour ago, truckcab79 said:

I’ve given up with it to be honest.  

Please don’t give up. The forum needs your contributions. Your photo and updates are great, look forward to seeing how your endeavour continues…not enough of this here.

[jonathanA]

49 minutes ago, IanD said:

So if anyone with more knowledge of that bit of the canal than me and/or a self-pumpout kit can suggest where one could be legitimately used less than 3 hours away, that would be helpful 🙂

 

see several of my posts before the bickering started.... 

 

39 minutes ago, MtB said:

I'd be interested to hear too, where self-pumpout kits can be used not at an Elsan point. About a decade ago there were a couple of long and bitter threads on here about the viability of self-pumping out, or not. Started IIRC by a poster commenting on visiting an elsan with sewage sprayed all up the walls and an inch deep on the floor, and suggesting the culprit was a solo boater self-pumping out. 

Most elsan points seem to have a notice 'saying not suitable for self pumpout' ergo those that do not have such a notice are....  although from what I've seen those ones usually coincide with a CRT pumpout facility anyway. 

[truckcab79]

6 minutes ago, nealeST said:

Please don’t give up. The forum needs your contributions. Your photo and updates are great, look forward to seeing how your endeavour continues…not enough of this here.

Thank you and I agree (with the last bit, not the bit about me being great 😂). but I’m not sure I can be arsed to be honest. I’ve been increasingly using Facebook for questions.  Lots of measured, informed responses  and fewer egos. I’ve put my build on Instagram now instead.   

[magnetman]

I always suspected that facebook would eventually kill internet forums.

 

Its rather sad given their business model but I suppose it is also inevitable. 

 

 

[nealeST]

Right, Will find you on instagram. Not a fan of FaceAche despite everyone trying to persuade me. 

[magnetman]

I wouldn't touch Instagram with a largepole as it is owned by facebook. 

 

 

 

 

 

If too much power is concentrated in small groups of people the consequence is Negative Outcomes. 

 

facebook is a typical example of this in action. Aldous Huxley really was right about this. 

 

What we will get is people doing things that they really didn't want to be doing. 

 

 

[rusty69]

5 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I always suspected that facebook would eventually kill internet forums.

 

Its rather sad given their business model but I suppose it is also inevitable. 

 

 

Pay attention, its not facebook, but the rubbish forum residents infighting,messing about and making off point comments.

 

Oh, wait, I think I might have done exactly that with this comment. Bugger.

[magnetman]

1 minute ago, rusty69 said:

Pay attention, its not facebook, but the rubbish forum residents infighting,messing about in Boats nd making off point comments.

 

 

 

Right. Thats OK then. 

[IanD]

46 minutes ago, truckcab79 said:

Thank you and I agree (with the last bit, not the bit about me being great 😂). but I’m not sure I can be arsed to be honest. I’ve been increasingly using Facebook for questions.  Lots of measured, informed responses  and fewer egos. I’ve put my build on Instagram now instead.   

 

Posting almost anything about your boat on CWDF seems far more likely to attract critical posts ("you're doing it wrong, my way is better") than constructive ones, the assumption of disdainful posters often being that they know far more about the subject than the (stupid newbie!) poster who hasn't considered the disadvantages (which there always are...) of what they're doing -- regardless of whether this is the case or not. The same posters also often fail to appreciate that what is best for them is not necessarily best for other people whose requirements and circumstances may be different to theirs.

 

This seems to be especially true for anyone trying to do things differently or use nasty modern technology instead of the way it was done in the "good old days" -- it's the reason I didn't put a build blog up on CWDF in spite of requests to do so, given the heavily negative responses to the posts I did make about my boat design and construction, see posts about the Schilling rudder and various others... 😞

 

27 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I always suspected that facebook would eventually kill internet forums.

 

Its rather sad given their business model but I suppose it is also inevitable. 

 

 

The problem with Facebook is that useful/interesting posts rapidly disappear into a morass of adverts and irrelevancies -- even more so than on CWDF -- and there's no filing/indexing or useful search system, or any usable way to find anything posted a significant time in the past. At least on CWDF you can find relevant posts from the past (going back for years), and there is some moderation and categorisation going on.

 

I know that many members are now inactive, but the CWDF numbers say a lot -- >33k members, most online >7k (though this was in 2016 -- any newer figures?), >3M posts on >100k topics. Even if you ignore the drivel and bickering, there's nothing like this amount of accessible useful information anywhere on Facebook, even though some of the (many!) canal-related groups have a lot of members the most popular ones mainly consist of photos.

Edited January 5 by IanD

[truckcab79]

22 minutes ago, nealeST said:

Right, Will find you on instagram. Not a fan of FaceAche despite everyone trying to persuade me. 

To be honest it’s the first time I’ve used it for hobbies.  I post my paying work on there. Not to advertise but because most people

have it so it’s a good place to tell them to go and scroll through my photos.  It’s hopeless for advertising as it’s all cash-in-hand chancers recommending their husband / wife, and clients who want you to work for nothing. 😂

 

Joined the 12volt boat groups and two or three narrowboat ones.  (Owner, interior, Springer).  Just a much more relaxed and informed place to be thus far. 

14 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Posting almost anything about your boat on CWDF seems far more likely to attract critical posts ("you're doing it wrong, my way is better") than constructive ones, the assumption of disdainful posters often being that they know far more about the subject than the (stupid newbie!) poster who hasn't considered the disadvantages (which there always are...) of what they're doing -- regardless of whether this is the case or not. The same posters also often fail to appreciate that what is best for them is not necessarily best for other people whose requirements and circumstances may be different to theirs.

 

This seems to be especially true for anyone trying to do things differently or use nasty modern technology instead of the way it was done in the "good old days" -- it's the reason I didn't put a build blog up on CWDF in spite of requests to do so, given the heavily negative responses to the posts I did make about my boat design and construction, see posts about the Schilling rudder and various others... 😞

Great shame. Build blogs are the best thing about most forums. 
 

You’re correct about the attitude.  Newbies seem to meet the view that ‘because you’re new to boats you’re going to fail and ‘my way is the only way’. And god forbid you might be one of those horrible new boaters that might have a bit of money to chuck needlessly at your hobby just because you want to. Little wonder nobody seems to stick around for long.  
 

Pointless being on here just to watch every thread descend into nonsense. I’d rather be building my boat.  Something else I think few on here actually do. 
 

Oddly, everyone I’ve met face to face through boating, both through hiring and buying has been absolutely delightful and helpful.  

[ditchcrawler]

5 hours ago, ruthieruthruth said:

Yeh, I've had a Google but can't seem to find a way to find out and I see the CRT are asking that elsan points are not used for selp PO so I have no idea how I'd do this legally (and cleanly, perhaps more importantly)

 

Any idea how I'd be able to find out without paying for United Utilities searches for every house along the cut?

If you have elsan disposal on your moorings can you pump it in there ?

[truckcab79]

4 hours ago, nealeST said:

Right, Will find you on instagram. Not a fan of FaceAche despite everyone trying to persuade me. 

Added the link to my build blog on here or find me as narrowboatember 

 

👍

[IanD]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

If you have elsan disposal on your moorings can you pump it in there ?

 

I'd have thought that Elsan points fall into two classes; those with restricted capacity (using soakaways or a septic tank or a small-bore sewer?) which will be overwhelmed by a pump-out, and those with a decent connection to a mains sewer where this is not a problem. But never having used one, I don't know how many can accept pump-outs (and where these are) and how many can't...

[ditchcrawler]

2 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

I'd have thought that Elsan points fall into two classes; those with restricted capacity (using soakaways or a septic tank or a small-bore sewer?) which will be overwhelmed by a pump-out, and those with a decent connection to a mains sewer where this is not a problem. But never having used one, I don't know how many can accept pump-outs (and where these are) and how many can't...

That is why I asked the question and didn't make the statement saying you can. I am guessing they are on a private mooring, who knows, I don't. Just offering suggestions 

[magnetman]

Just now, IanD said:

 

I'd have thought that Elsan points fall into two classes; those with restricted capacity (using soakaways or a septic tank or a small-bore sewer?) which will be overwhelmed by a pump-out, and those with a decent connection to a mains sewer where this is not a problem. But never having used one, I don't know how many can accept pump-outs (and where these are) and how many can't...

There is a third type which is those which have holding tanks. 

 

and a fourth type which is those which are below sewer level and therefore require a tank/pump combination. 

 

 

 

[IanD]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

That is why I asked the question and didn't make the statement saying you can. I am guessing they are on a private mooring, who knows, I don't. Just offering suggestions 

Maybe if @ruthieruthruth is willing to say where her mooring is, somebody might be able to help? It's possible there might be somewhere she can legitimately self-pump-out less than 3 hours away. Or, it seems, more likely not... 😞

Edited January 5 by IanD