Licence increase announced 2024-25

[IanD]

Just now, Mike Todd said:

But it would have to be built into each boat such that it could not be tampered with nor allow the boat to be used when out of credit.

Trackers are widely used in cars, and include anti-tamper/anti-spoofing features. Yes they can be bypassed but it takes more expertise than most boaters would have. They don't have to be 99.9% perfect, 95% is usually reckoned to be a very good success rate for anything like this -- including CART licensing today.

 

They don't have to stop the boat being used when out of credit, they just have to record usage so the appropriate charge can be made, presumably at the end of the month or year.

 

Technology is not the problem here, boater attitudes are... 😞

 

(and with some justification given the past record of what government agencies do with supposedly sensitive personal data...)

[Momac]

21 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Again, you're suggesting others think what they probably don't... 😞

So are you. 

[peterboat]

5 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

It's exactly what is going to happen.

 

Pricing new boaters (who tend to start with smaller cheaper boats) off the water will eventually lead to the less and less boaters on the water, no "new blood" to replace those leaving due to ill health and old age.

 

Why maintain the waterways for a diminishing number of old folks in narrowboats? 

You are right, I came up Tinsley flight today it was a nightmare, 5 people to open Rotherham lock to start, Smith and i couldn't shift a gate so 3 passersby helped one in high heels! Then the weir had a huge mud bank blocking it which means you have to scratch your boat by going through trees! Most locks only have one paddle working both ends, this will eventually cause people to shun this journey. I then learned that CRT senior management and Trustees are having a series of jollys around the country at our expense! So we know why they need more money it's to fund Jollys and the extra senior management posts and their cars!!!

[MtB]

1 minute ago, peterboat said:

You are right, I came up Tinsley flight today it was a nightmare, 5 people to open Rotherham lock to start, Smith and i couldn't shift a gate so 3 passersby helped one in high heels! Then the weir had a huge mud bank blocking it which means you have to scratch your boat by going through trees! Most locks only have one paddle working both ends, this will eventually cause people to shun this journey. I then learned that CRT senior management and Trustees are having a series of jollys around the country at our expense! So we know why they need more money it's to fund Jollys and the extra senior management posts and their cars!!!

 

 

And all because your licence costs perhaps one third of what it should be.

 

 

 

 

 

[peterboat]

Just now, MtB said:

 

 

And all because your licence costs perhaps one third of what it should be.

 

 

 

 

 

Put it up 2 thirds and the canals would be empty and derelict in a couple of years

[MtB]

Just now, peterboat said:

Put it up 2 thirds and the canals would be empty and derelict in a couple of years

 

 

Time your maths teacher retired I think....

 

 

 

[magnetman]

I reckon there is a lot more money to be extracted from boat owners before they would throw the towel in.

[Guest]

It is quite telling still that the boat owners on here who obviously can readily afford it are all for an increase in licence costs and an increase in costs to wide beams.

 

It is obvious they would have the waterways cleansed of the riff raff so they can enjoy their shiny new boat or small fleet undisturbed.

 

A bit of a problem being if the riff raff are gone either of two things will happen, further increase in costs to them meaning they too start complaining (especially if they have more than one boat) or significant canal closures.

 

More empathy with their fellow boaters might assist in avoiding gaining an 'Im alright jack' label.

[MtB]

18 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I reckon there is a lot more money to be extracted from boat owners before they would throw the towel in.

 

Shhhhhh, CRT might be reading!

 

Me too BTW

[magnetman]

14 minutes ago, M_JG said:

It is quite telling still that the boat owners on here who obviously can readily afford it are all for an increase in licence costs and an increase in costs to wide beams.

 

It is obvious they would have the waterways cleansed of the riff raff so they can enjoy their shiny new boat or small fleet undisturbed.

 

A bit of a problem being if the riff raff are gone either of two things will happen, further increase in costs to them meaning they too start complaining (especially if they have more than one boat) or significant canal closures.

 

More empathy with their fellow boaters might assist in avoiding gaining an 'Im alright jack' label.

 

 

Yes but lets face it. The riff raff are the problem.

 

Its pretty obvious regardless as to whether one has a shiny boat or a small fleet.

 

It probably actually is better overall if the canals were populated by fewer people who pay more.

 

 

What do you want to see?
 

1000 boats where half of them are shanty boats or 500 boats where most of them are reasonably well looked after with a few odd characters, some trustafarians and old retired people with harold shipman beards and modest houses?
 

I prefer the shanty boat approach for a number of different reasons but it isn't about what people prefer to see its about what is best for the survival o the canals in general.

 

I suspect if they descend into slum shanty towns it is not going to be a Positive Outcome.

 

I think suggesting there is an "I'm alright Jack" attitude is almost as bad as blaming the management.

 

Its a lazy way to approach the problem.

 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

 

What do you want to see?
 

I want to see more historic boats,

Any boat with a hull over 80 year old should be license exempt,

a further increase of 10% for all leisure licenses should cover the short fall. 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

44 minutes ago, peterboat said:

You are right, I came up Tinsley flight today it was a nightmare, 5 people to open Rotherham lock to start, Smith and i couldn't shift a gate so 3 passersby helped one in high heels! Then the weir had a huge mud bank blocking it which means you have to scratch your boat by going through trees! Most locks only have one paddle working both ends, this will eventually cause people to shun this journey. I then learned that CRT senior management and Trustees are having a series of jollys around the country at our expense! So we know why they need more money it's to fund Jollys and the extra senior management posts and their cars!!!

😂remember 48hr’s then £10 a night 😂😂

[peterboat]

Just now, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

😂remember 48hr’s then £10 a night 😂😂

Not even there moored at top pond next to showers and toilets , not down until Saturday. I wonder if the guy that's run out of diesel is paying 

[MtB]

14 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Yes but lets face it. The riff raff are the problem.

 

Quite so.

 

In the world of business it is way better to have 200 well-healed customers than 20,000 on their uppers. Fewer accounts to manage, fewer people throwing up problems.

 

Same for CRT. 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

 

Yes but lets face it. The riff raff are the problem.

 

Its pretty obvious regardless as to whether one has a shiny boat or a small fleet.

 

It probably actually is better overall if the canals were populated by fewer people who pay more.

 

 

What do you want to see?
 

1000 boats where half of them are shanty boats or 500 boats where most of them are reasonably well looked after with a few odd characters, some trustafarians and old retired people with harold shipman beards and modest houses?
 

I prefer the shanty boat approach for a number of different reasons but it isn't about what people prefer to see its about what is best for the survival o the canals in general.

 

I suspect if they descend into slum shanty towns it is not going to be a Positive Outcome.

 

I think suggesting there is an "I'm alright Jack" attitude is almost as bad as blaming the management.

 

Its a lazy way to approach the problem.

 

 

 

And there we have it.

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

Quite so.

 

In the world of business it is way better to have 200 well-healed customers than 20,000 on their uppers. Fewer accounts to manage, fewer people throwing up problems.

 

Same for CRT. 

 

And again.

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

9 hours ago, peterboat said:

Not even there moored at top pond next to showers and toilets , not down until Saturday. I wonder if the guy that's run out of diesel is paying 

Old woman, taking the p@ss  Narrowboat “ Tin Lizzie” total free-loader. When are you up?

Edited December 1, 2023 by BoatinglifeupNorth

[peterboat]

2 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Old woman, taking the p@ss  Narrowboat “ Tin Lizzie” total spaz free-loader. When are you up?

Saturday fingers crossed 

[IanD]

13 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

 

Yes but lets face it. The riff raff are the problem.

 

Its pretty obvious regardless as to whether one has a shiny boat or a small fleet.

 

It probably actually is better overall if the canals were populated by fewer people who pay more.

 

 

What do you want to see?
 

1000 boats where half of them are shanty boats or 500 boats where most of them are reasonably well looked after with a few odd characters, some trustafarians and old retired people with harold shipman beards and modest houses?
 

I prefer the shanty boat approach for a number of different reasons but it isn't about what people prefer to see its about what is best for the survival o the canals in general.

 

I suspect if they descend into slum shanty towns it is not going to be a Positive Outcome.

 

I think suggesting there is an "I'm alright Jack" attitude is almost as bad as blaming the management.

 

Its a lazy way to approach the problem.

 

 

 

The best thing for the canals is not to drive lots of people off them, but it also can't be to allow them to carry on as they are, something has to change because CART have to try and find more money from all sources including boaters, and this means putting up license fees which will inevitably drive a few boaters off the canals. That's still the least bad solution, though it would certainly be better if this did not fall most heavily on the oldest and poorest boaters.

 

I see from quotes there are the usual lazy accusations from the usual suspect about lack of empathy for other boaters, which is the opposite of the truth -- IIRC from the same person who shot down in flames any suggestion that the license fee should be more heavily graduated and perhaps be linked to boat age/value precisely to try and protect older/poorer boaters... 😞

[Guest]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

 

The best thing for the canals is not to drive lots of people off them, but it also can't be to allow them to carry on as they are, something has to change because CART have to try and find more money from all sources including boaters, and this means putting up license fees which will inevitably drive a few boaters off the canals. That's still the least bad solution, though it would certainly be better if this did not fall most heavily on the oldest and poorest boaters.

 

I see from quotes there are the usual lazy accusations from the usual suspect about lack of empathy for other boaters, which is the opposite of the truth -- IIRC from the same person who shot down in flames any suggestion that the license fee should be more heavily graduated and perhaps be linked to boat age/value precisely to try and protect older/poorer boaters... 😞

 

Ah well Ian at least you are reading my posts again, despite judiciously claiming you are ignoring me.,next you'll be taking me off ignore (only for about a week of course till you sulk again)..

[magnetman]

10 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

That's still the least bad solution, though it would certainly be better if this did not fall most heavily on the oldest and poorest boaters.

I'm not convinced the licence increases are hitting the old and poor boaters.

 

It seems to be mostly centred around wide beam boats which apart from the obvious shanty boats are some of the most valuable boats on the canals. It is also a raid on people with moorings. My 10ft6 wide boat (a trawler style yacht not a canal boat)  which s currently on a permanent CRT owned mooring is subject to a higher licence fee increase next yar than a cc ing narrow boat.

 

I think the CRT have worked out who can pay and are quite accurately targeting certain groups.

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by magnetman
edited to remove mild sex references

[peterboat]

14 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I'm not convinced the licence increases are hitting the old and poor boaters.

 

It seems to be mostly centred around wide beam boats which apart from the obvious shanty boats are some of the most valuable boats on the canals. It is also a raid on people with moorings. My 10ft6 wide boat (a trawler style yacht not a canal boat)  which s currently on a permanent CRT owned mooring is subject to a higher licence fee increase next yar than a cc ing narrow boat.

 

I think the CRT have worked out who can pay and are quite accurately targeting certain groups.

 

 

 

You are in London the most expensive moorings in the UK. Also you have more than one boat and one mooring, plus you aren't paying for one mooring 

Edited November 30, 2023 by peterboat

[Mad Harold]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

 

 

I think the CRT have worked out who can pay and are quite accurately targeting certain groups.

 

 

One group of boaters that will be "collateral damage" are the grp cruisers that are above 7ft beam.Seamasters,Eastwoods, Birchwoods, Hardy, Freeman,Colvic and others that are on CRT waters.

I know it has been raised before, but these boats can't cruise the narrow canals, so they may quite justifiably feel a bit miffed.

There may be a good few of these boats for sale soon, bought by people who are prepared to pay the extra licence fee.0

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

31 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Saturday fingers crossed 

There will be a mooring for you, basin or visitors, take care👍

[magnetman]

It is definitely a first world problem if people can't afford to keep a boat for leisure and can afford to sell it while retaining a roof over their heads. 

 

 

 

 

[peterboat]

3 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

There will be a mooring for you, basin or visitors, take care👍

One of the boats is leaving on Saturday morning, so I will be ok I should think, Jayne is a juror in court for 2 weeks so that's why I have travelled up, the timing for the tram is rubbish it would be a 12 hour day for her