Broadband aerial

[Mike Todd]

4 hours ago, alias said:

 

I've had a contract with Smarty over the last few years, and have a backup O2 PAYG SIM in a second slot on my phone (with the idea that I could buy an O2 data add-on if required).  I've found that in the few places with a poor or non-existent 3 signal (e.g. Crick, parts of the South Oxford summit) the O2 signal has also been very weak.

 

 

Not too surprising as many persisting not-spots are the result of geography (topography) and even phone companies. mega-powerful they may be, cannot usually move mountains!

[alias]

3 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

Not too surprising as many persisting not-spots are the result of geography (topography) and even phone companies. mega-powerful they may be, cannot usually move mountains!

True enough, and as a lot of roads and railways also follow the topography, and by market demands have good coverage, the choice on where to stop can depend on preferences about background noise.

 

Unless of course someone has a realy big aerial.

 

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by alias

[Paul C]

4 hours ago, alias said:

True enough, and as a lot of roads and railways also follow the topography, and by market demands have good coverage, the choice on where to stop can depend on preferences about background noise.

 

Unless of course someone has a realy big aerial.

 

 

Roads and railways DON’T necessarily have good mobile phone coverage!!!

[IanD]

8 hours ago, Paul C said:

Roads and railways DON’T necessarily have good mobile phone coverage!!!

They do *tend* to have better coverage than places in the middle of nowhere though because the network operators tend to put masts along them. Try looking at cellmapper... 😉

Edited November 1, 2023 by IanD

[ditchcrawler]

8 hours ago, Paul C said:

Roads and railways DON’T necessarily have good mobile phone coverage!!!

You can say that again, broken down on the A11 near Thetford balanced on the top of a gate post trying to ring the AA

[dmr]

Thread hijack.

We have very poor signal on our very remote winter mooring and the mifi is struggling.

Need a router and external aeriel.

Everybody apears to use the Poynting XPOL1 5G or similar, but the Poynting site says this is totally unsuitable and the omni600 is better

Any comments please????

[Paul C]

23 hours ago, IanD said:

They do *tend* to have better coverage than places in the middle of nowhere though because the network operators tend to put masts along them. Try looking at cellmapper... 😉

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is!

[IanD]

10 minutes ago, Paul C said:

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is!

It's not theory -- in practice, there are more masts (and better reception) along roads and railways, partly because that's where the customer demand is and partly because installation (power and cabling) is easier.

 

None of which guarantees a good signal on a particular road or railway, any more than it does anywhere else... 😉

 

13 minutes ago, dmr said:

Thread hijack.

We have very poor signal on our very remote winter mooring and the mifi is struggling.

Need a router and external aeriel.

Everybody apears to use the Poynting XPOL1 5G or similar, but the Poynting site says this is totally unsuitable and the omni600 is better

Any comments please????

 

For a fixed mooring where you can choose the antenna alignment, a directional antenna will give better reception than an omni one -- but even an omni will probably be better than MiFi, assuming the cables to it aren't too long.

 

Lots available at different price points -- how much do you want to spend, what bands do you want to cover (4G only or 5G as well?), and what router are you thinking of? (2x2 MIMO or 4x4 MIMO?)

Edited November 2, 2023 by IanD

[dmr]

21 minutes ago, IanD said:

It's not theory -- in practice, there are more masts (and better reception) along roads and railways, partly because that's where the customer demand is and partly because installation (power and cabling) is easier.

 

None of which guarantees a good signal on a particular road or railway, any more than it does anywhere else... 😉

 

 

For a fixed mooring where you can choose the antenna alignment, a directional antenna will give better reception than an omni one -- but even an omni will probably be better than MiFi, assuming the cables to it aren't too long.

 

Lots available at different price points -- how much do you want to spend, what bands do you want to cover (4G only or 5G as well?), and what router are you thinking of? (2x2 MIMO or 4x4 MIMO?)

 

We will still travel all summer and quite a bit in the winter so omni is required.

Have not chosen a router yet, have a brand new unused Huawei B310 that came free with a contract change so will try that, but might need something better. Any comment on why the XPOL1 is so popular when Poynting say its unsuitable???....a lot of the canal netwok is rural.

Off grid so power consumption is a factor.

 

Cost is not a big worry as long as its not silly money, and our life is most rural so 5G probably not a big factor.

Edited November 2, 2023 by dmr
added a bit more

[IanD]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

 

We will still travel all summer and quite a bit in the winter so omni is required.

Have not chosen a router yet, have a brand new unused Huawei B310 that came free with a contract change so will try that, but might need something better. Any comment on why the XPOL1 is so popular when Poynting say its unsuitable???....a lot of the canal netwok is rural.

Off grid so power consumption is a factor.

 

Cost is not a big worry as long as its not silly money, and our life is most rural so 5G probably not a big factor.

A directional antenna is OK when travelling so long as you're willing to align the antenna each time you moor, omni is easier and works while actually moving.

 

Maybe Poynting say the OMNI600 is better than the XPOL-1 because it's got a few dB more gain, so better for rural areas? Mind you it's also pretty tall which could cause a problem on the canals with low bridges/tunnels... 😉

 

There are lots of threads about routers and antennas here, the Zyxel NR5301 (5G 4x4 MIMO) is popular and about £150 on Ebay, the ZTE MF286D (4G 2x2 MIMO) is about £50.

 

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/forums/mobile-broadband-and-fixed-wireless.106/

 

5G is also starting to be used on low bands (B20 ~800MHz) by some networks to extend rural coverage, it's not just for high data rates in towns and cities.

 

Only you can decide whether you think a 5G (more future-proof) or 4G (cheaper) router/antenna is best... 😉

Edited November 2, 2023 by IanD

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, Paul C said:

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is!

I would agree if you substituted 'salesman's advice' for theory.

 

(or even a barrack room lawyer/engineer ...)

[Rob-M]

29 minutes ago, IanD said:

Zyxel NR5301

I was looking at these the other day and most were the NR5301e which seems to be the EE branded model and from what I could find online has a different firmware and can't be updated with the standard Zyxel firmware so I decided not to purchase one.

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

I was looking at these the other day and most were the NR5301e which seems to be the EE branded model and from what I could find online has a different firmware and can't be updated with the standard Zyxel firmware so I decided not to purchase one.

The Three branded NR5103E is what most people (including me) use, the EE version has much more locked down (restricted) firmware. The direct-from-Zyxel version is not really supported in the UK to end users, any problems and you're on your own -- also very difficult to find cheap and secondhand, which is where all the eBay ones come from (returns to Three/EE which are sold on, often unused).

 

The Three one works on all the networks including EE.

[dmr]

47 minutes ago, IanD said:

A directional antenna is OK when travelling so long as you're willing to align the antenna each time you moor, omni is easier and works while actually moving.

 

Maybe Poynting say the OMNI600 is better than the XPOL-1 because it's got a few dB more gain, so better for rural areas? Mind you it's also pretty tall which could cause a problem on the canals with low bridges/tunnels... 😉

 

There are lots of threads about routers and antennas here, the Zyxel NR5301 (5G 4x4 MIMO) is popular and about £150 on Ebay, the ZTE MF286D (4G 2x2 MIMO) is about £50.

 

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/forums/mobile-broadband-and-fixed-wireless.106/

 

5G is also starting to be used on low bands (B20 ~800MHz) by some networks to extend rural coverage, it's not just for high data rates in towns and cities.

 

Only you can decide whether you think a 5G (more future-proof) or 4G (cheaper) router/antenna is best... 😉

 

I don't understand this stuff, my electronics knowledge stops at about 1MHz.

Poynting infer its about reflections from buildings etc so some scatter might be needed for the XPOL to work effectively????

[IanD]

Just now, dmr said:

 

I don't understand this stuff, my electronics knowledge stops at about 1MHz.

Poynting infer its about reflections from buildings etc so some scatter might be needed for the XPOL to work effectively????

Sounds unlikely. Can you send a link to the comments by Poynting you're referring to and I'll have a look?

[dmr]

 

1 minute ago, IanD said:

Sounds unlikely. Can you send a link to the comments by Poynting you're referring to and I'll have a look?

https://poynting.tech/articles/which-lte-antenna-do-i-use/

[IanD]

11 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

https://poynting.tech/articles/which-lte-antenna-do-i-use/

As I suggested, it looks like low gain is the reason they don't suggest the XPOL-1 for rural areas -- the XPOL-2 is better but this is directional. Neither of these like being too close to big metal plates like the roof of a narrowboat due to reflections... 😞

 

I'm using a Panorama 4x4 MIMO omni antenna (intended for roof-mounting on vehicles) which has more gain than the Poynting ones, but it's hard to find in the UK and very expensive... 😞

Edited November 2, 2023 by IanD

[dmr]

So is the stuff about height and type of buildings technically relevent, or is it just an advertising mans way of defining urban. semi-urban etc and so a silly measure of typical signal strength????

[IanD]

52 minutes ago, dmr said:

So is the stuff about height and type of buildings technically relevent, or is it just an advertising mans way of defining urban. semi-urban etc and so a silly measure of typical signal strength????

Yes it's technically relevant -- for example in dense urban areas you don't want a narrow vertical beamwidth because signals -- direct or reflected -- can come down from above over tall buildings, so you want an antenna with a wide vertical beamwidth like the XPOL. In rural areas most of the signal is direct and comes in horizontally, and an antenna like the OMNI600 with narrow vertical beamwidth has more gain and will give better results than the XPOL.

[dmr]

Current plan is to investigate things incrementally, with increasing cost and complexity till we get a decent signal.

I believe in the concept of minimum technology to get the job done.

As a starter will use the current B310 and have just ordered a Poynting XPOL1 5G.

If this is not enough will try a better router and/or a Pointing  Omni 600 (or another from that range).

Can also try raising aeriel up on a longer pole.

We are in an unusual location at the bottom of a steep valley in a moderately remote location, (2 locks down from the Rochdale summit, you will have passed here a little while ago 😀).

 

and an additional factor, I would like wifi throughout the boat, ideally from a single router, and its a 70 foot trad with an engine inside.

[IanD]

31 minutes ago, dmr said:

Current plan is to investigate things incrementally, with increasing cost and complexity till we get a decent signal.

I believe in the concept of minimum technology to get the job done.

As a starter will use the current B310 and have just ordered a Poynting XPOL1 5G.

If this is not enough will try a better router and/or a Pointing  Omni 600 (or another from that range).

Can also try raising aeriel up on a longer pole.

We are in an unusual location at the bottom of a steep valley in a moderately remote location, (2 locks down from the Rochdale summit, you will have passed here a little while ago 😀).

 

and an additional factor, I would like wifi throughout the boat, ideally from a single router, and its a 70 foot trad with an engine inside.

Incremental improvements is a good approach -- so long as you don't need too many of them and end up throwing lots of stuff away, but I expect you can always flog it on eBay... 😉

 

If your main use is at a fixed mooring a directional antenna would probably be a better option, especially given your location on the Rochdale -- log-periodic ones like the LPDA-92 (there are other cheaper suppliers too) have the highest gain, but are obtrusive. How far away are the nearest masts and what bands do they support? (look at cellmapper)

 

To get WiFi at both ends of the boat with an engine room (and steel bulkheads?) in the middle you may need a mesh/WiFi extender if a single router doesn't give enough coverage, but this is easy to do.

Edited November 2, 2023 by IanD

[dmr]

37 minutes ago, IanD said:

Incremental improvements is a good approach -- so long as you don't need too many of them and end up throwing lots of stuff away, but I expect you can always flog it on eBay... 😉

 

If your main use is at a fixed mooring a directional antenna would probably be a better option, especially given your location on the Rochdale -- log-periodic ones like the LPDA-92 (there are other cheaper suppliers too) have the highest gain, but are obtrusive. How far away are the nearest masts and what bands do they support? (look at cellmapper)

 

To get WiFi at both ends of the boat with an engine room (and steel bulkheads?) in the middle you may need a mesh/WiFi extender if a single router doesn't give enough coverage, but this is easy to do.

 

We might need two aeriels, a home mooring one and a cruising one, but it would be lovely to have just one.

I think the mast is fairly close, need to check again, but the hill gets in the way so signal ok on the towpath side but not as good on this side.

There are no steel bulkheads and the engine is a JD3 so not very tall, but just experimenting now and the wifi signal does appear to struggle to get past the engine, maybe its the vertical exhaust that is the issue?

 

I would prefer to avoid extenders if I can as always struggling to keep power consumption down, but its an option.

We will be running two mobile contracts, one router and one mifi, plus two phones as backups, but the back cabin is always a diffucult place as it has just one very small porthole.

 

Off to experiment a bit more now.

[GUMPY]

6 hours ago, dmr said:

Have not chosen a router yet, have a brand new unused Huawei B310

Check if the 310 has one or two antenna sockets.

If only one it's SISO and not worth using.

If two then it's MIMO and worth a try.

[ditchcrawler]

4 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

Check if the 310 has one or two antenna sockets.

If only one it's SISO and not worth using.

If two then it's MIMO and worth a try.

[dmr]

6 minutes ago, GUMPY said:

Check if the 310 has one or two antenna sockets.

If only one it's SISO and not worth using.

If two then it's MIMO and worth a try.

It has two, but while rummaging in the "electronics draw" I found a brand new 535. A couple of times we have updated to 3 contract to get a lower price and each time they send us a router even though we were using the same old mifi,luckily I don't like throwing stuff away.

 

A pair of mifi's has served us well for many years but the new winter base is challenging.

Just setting up the 535 now.

 

For various reasons have just got a new SIM with Smarty and even with a very weak signal its much faster than the old Three SIM. I have a theory that new users get a faster service for a few weeks to generate good customer satisfaction, then slowly fall down the pecking order. Any thoughts?

Comparing a mifi with the 310 so its not really a fair comparison.