Licences

[magnetman]

1 minute ago, Paul C said:

They're not; or, they always have been different.

 

I don't see any link with winter mooring issues.

 

 

The cc option is just a tick box on an application form. It is the same relevant consent (Pleasure Boat Licence PBL) as someone who has a home mooring. 

 

However, over time the cc question has become more interesting and it is now an officially recognised tern on .gov websites. 

 

If you are saying that by having a winter mooring you are not a cc er how does this work if the CRT are intending to charge cc ers more money for their licences? 

 

Its obvious there will be a problem here as unlike places like the Thames the boat licence is not related to the calendar. My Thames boat registration runs from January to December whatever happens. On the canals you might have a February renewal or a November renewal or any other month. 

 

The winter mooring arrangements IF they move you from being a cc er to having a home mooring are in conflict with the proposal to have tiered licence costs based on 12 month contracts. 

 

It can't work. 

3 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Well not really as they may well only be available to non-home mooring license paying CCers and if they wish to take them up over Winter it’s their choice.
I think it may be very rare for someone with a genuine home mooring to take a Winter mooring, it may identify some “Ghost” home moorers, if they apply for a short term Winter mooring.

@Paul C was claiming that if you have a winter mooring you are not a cc er. 

 

I agree with your analysis but he was suggesting something different which could cause problems when the licence is renewed if the renewal date happens to be during the time that you have the winter mooring contract. 

 

 

23 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

Its continuous for the duration it lasts - winter. So its both. Its pretty simple: you are either a CCer or you have a mooring. If you have a (winter) mooring, you aren't a CCer.

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

 

The cc option is just a tick box on an application form. It is the same relevant consent (Pleasure Boat Licence PBL) as someone who has a home mooring. 

 

However, over time the cc question has become more interesting and it is now an officially recognised tern on .gov websites. 

 

If you are saying that by having a winter mooring you are not a cc er how does this work if the CRT are intending to charge cc ers more money for their licences? 

 

Its obvious there will be a problem here as unlike places like the Thames the boat licence is not related to the calendar. My Thames boat registration runs from January to December whatever happens. On the canals you might have a February renewal or a November renewal or any other month. 

 

The winter mooring arrangements IF they move you from being a cc er to having a home mooring are in conflict with the proposal to have tiered licence costs based on 12 month contracts. 

 

It can't work. 

because I wanted to work and stay in an area I once took on a towpath winter mooring for two months, Jan to Feb. 
As far as I am aware, I was still regarded by CRT as not having a home mooring. 
 

 

[magnetman]

That makes a lot more sense. 

[Paul C]

They could adjust the cost of a winter mooring to compensate for the loss from temporarily going from CC to mooring licence. ie it would cost the same as previous for the boater; and CRT would get the same as if the winter mooring weren't taken (plus the pre-adjustment winter mooring money, of course).

[magnetman]

I reckon they might do away with winter moorings. 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I reckon they might do away with winter moorings. 

winter moorings are a con really,

you’re really paying CRT to turn a blind eye to over stay,

 

and you pay to stay somewhere with little or no facilities,

when really if you wanted to stay you could shuffle about or plead for special whatevers to stay over, 

 

Plus I’ve met a few who are already heading for areas where they’ll be stuck  by a winter stoppage. 
 

I really don’t see why many would want to pay for a winter towpath mooring. 

[Paul C]

29 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

 

@Paul C was claiming that if you have a winter mooring you are not a cc er. 

 

 

 

 

You are de-facto not a CCer.

23 minutes ago, Goliath said:

because I wanted to work and stay in an area I once took on a towpath winter mooring for two months, Jan to Feb. 
As far as I am aware, I was still regarded by CRT as not having a home mooring. 
 

 

Were you required to use the boat bona fide for navigation, not staying in one place for more than 14 days etc etc?

[magnetman]

4 minutes ago, Paul C said:

You are de-facto not a CCer.

 

 

I was just idly wondering how this status would interact with licence renewals given that you can do things to change the renewal month on your licence. 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

4 minutes ago, Paul C said:

You are de-facto not a CCer.

Were you required to use the boat bona fide for navigation, not staying in one place for more than 14 days etc etc?

No because I paid me money to stay over. 
 

I’ve just left my boat in a marina for 10 days while I go on holiday. Would you like to redefine me for that?

 

I can’t continuously cruise while I’m away on holiday, and neither do I state a home mooring while I’m away. 
Which pocket would you like me in?

 

 

[magnetman]

 

 

If, for the sake of argument, a cc licence was £2500 and a licence with a mooring was £1000 (small boat) people would look at ways to present as having a home mooring at renewal time. Similar to the 5 yar BS ticket thing. 

 

 

I've got a 5 yar BS ticket on one of the boats. Just counted it out on my fingers. 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

 

 

If, for the sake of argument, a cc licence was £2500 and a licence with a mooring was £1000 (small boat) people would look at ways to present as having a home mooring at renewal time. Similar to the 5 yar BS ticket thing. 

 

 

of course yes,

IF I (one) could find a mooring less than say £1500 for the year. 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

19 minutes ago, Paul C said:

They could adjust the cost of a winter mooring to compensate for the loss from temporarily going from CC to mooring licence. ie it would cost the same as previous for the boater; and CRT would get the same as if the winter mooring weren't taken (plus the pre-adjustment winter mooring money, of course).

But there are more CCers than Temp Winter Moorings and I imagine there are more takers than places in the popular locations. So it will be the decision of the CCer is if they want to take them, I doubt there will be any adjustments to compensate licence payment, they will just be offered with a set price and and I image they will be taken as usual.

[magnetman]

2 minutes ago, Goliath said:

of course yes,

IF I (one) could find a mooring less than say £1500 for the year. 

 

I'm still processing the idea that a cc er who takes a winter mooring is not a cc er. 

 

They are a cc er. 

 

In terms of licence banding but they have satisfied the bored in reasonable circumstances. 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

 

I'm still processing the idea that a cc er who takes a winter mooring is not a cc er. 

 

They are a cc er. 

 

In terms of licence banding but they have satisfied the bored in reasonable circumstances. 

I don’t know, I can’t be arsed with the contrived CC definition it does me nut in. 
I’m just someone without a Home mooring who keeps on the move. 
 

[peterboat]

5 hours ago, IanD said:

 

IIRC the last time this was surveyed (before the CART ban) about a quarter of compost toilet users composted properly and three-quarters bag'n'binned. This may have changed since as the bag'n'binners ripped the toilets out and replaced them, or maybe some have just carried on in spite of the CART ban.

 

Either way, if you want to claim that "loads compost it properly" maybe you should provide some numbers to back this up, not just guesswork or what you and your mates next door do? 😉

Its because others on here have said how they compost it remember the arguments?

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

2 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

I'm still processing the idea that a cc er who takes a winter mooring is not a cc er. 

 

They are a cc er. 

 

In terms of licence banding but they have satisfied the bored in reasonable circumstances. 

They don't need to satisfy the board as they have paid to temporary moor on a temporary 3 month short term mooring for 3 month, after which that mooring reverts back to 24/48/72hr all approved by CaRT.

[Paul C]

9 minutes ago, Goliath said:

No because I paid me money to stay over. 
 

I’ve just left my boat in a marina for 10 days while I go on holiday. Would you like to redefine me for that?

 

I can’t continuously cruise while I’m away on holiday, and neither do I state a home mooring while I’m away. 
Which pocket would you like me in?

 

 

 

You would probably want to redefine yourself as a home moorer while you have a mooring, if the CC licence was 2.5x the cost. Obviously, there is a diminishing return for altering your status with CRT if the time period is short; indeed, they may not process the part-refunds for time periods shorter than X days, to save on admin costs.

[magnetman]

1 minute ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

They don't need to satisfy the board as they have paid to temporary moor on a temporary 3 month short term mooring for 3 month, after which that mooring reverts back to 24/48/72hr all approved by CaRT.

 

If they are a cc er they do have to satisfy the board. It is in the '95 BW Act. 

 

If they are not a cc er at that time then the licence cost will be different under the proposals for tiered licence costs depending on boat type and declared usage. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I don’t know, I can’t be arsed with the contrived CC definition it does me nut in. 
I’m just someone without a Home mooring who keeps on the move. 
 

 

Its all written down in the 1995 British Waterways Act. 

[BoatinglifeupNorth]

4 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I don’t know, I can’t be arsed with the contrived CC definition it does me nut in. 
I’m just someone without a Home mooring who keeps on the move. 
 

 The reason why people get ar$ed about the definition of CC, is that they don't CC or move, unlike yourself who cant be ar$ed because you do move and CC😂

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

10 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

You would probably want to redefine yourself as a home moorer while you have a mooring, if the CC licence was 2.5x the cost. Obviously, there is a diminishing return for altering your status with CRT if the time period is short; indeed, they may not process the part-refunds for time periods shorter than X days, to save on admin costs.

probably not because I’m unlikely to take on a winter mooring again, and I’d rather just get on with life than save/fiddle a pound one way or the other. 
 

And you’re supposing/assuming too much regards license increase. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Goliath

[peterboat]

3 hours ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

Now it’s evident that the new licence system will be based on Home Mooring and Non-Home Mooring boats. Will Marina’s and recorded Mooring locations be required to do monthly/quarterly returns to CaRT of Moored boats on their moorings?
 As it seams all too simple for boat owners to change their own mooring status on the CaRT personal/Boat licence details log in.  
It also seams quite easy for boats that are recorded with a home mooring to go CCing, as people have argued when not getting the CCing grant as they never updated their home mooring status to non-home mooring.

 

Simple really the licence logs show which boats are in Marinas twice a month so CRT know already who is a CCer because they aren't logged in marinas 

[MtB]

3 hours ago, magnetman said:

I reckon the CRT can milk this if they want to. People will pay up because even at 3 grand per annum it is massively cheaper than renting some hovel from a slum landlord.

 

Yep. A typical rent for a tiny one bed house around here is £1k a month. 

 

DAMHIK.

 

 

[Paul C]

4 minutes ago, Goliath said:

probably not because I’m unlikely to take on a winter mooring again, and I’d rather just get on with life than save/fiddle a pound one way or the other. 
 

And you’re supposing/assuming too much regards license increase. 

 

Yeah obvs, the 2.5x is a guess based on previous posters' guesses, not an accurate figure. But the principle is there.

 

I was reluctant to use the pronoun "you", what I meant was "A(n) (ex) CC-er who took out a mooring of some kind or other", as in a general case not something personal to your circumstances.

[nicknorman]

I think we should remember that currently, most boats with a home mooring pay more to CRT than boats without a home mooring. And as a generalisation boats without a home mooring usually generate more CRT direct costs - more rubbish disposal, more elsan disposal, more tap water, than someone with a home mooring. Well, a home mooring in a marina anyway.

 

I am thinking of the 10% of mooring fees that most marinas have to pay to CRT. So I pay about 25% more to CRT - directly and indirectly - than someone without a home mooring. This seems an obvious anomaly.

Edited September 19, 2023 by nicknorman

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

15 minutes ago, BoatinglifeupNorth said:

 The reason why people get ar$ed about the definition of CC, is that they don't CC or move, unlike yourself who cant be ar$ed because you do move and CC😂

 

 

6 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I think we should remember that currently, most boats with a home mooring pay more to CRT than boats without a home mooring. And as a generalisation boats without a home mooring use generate more CRT direct costs - more rubbish disposal, more elsan disposal, more tap water, than someone with a home mooring. Well, a home mooring in a marina anyway.

 

I am thinking of the 10% of mooring fees that most marinas have to pay to CRT. So I pay about 25% more to CRT - directly and indirectly - than someone without a home mooring. This seems an obvious anomaly.

added trouble/issue is CRT are doing away with such amenities that I now have to drop in to marinas to use theirs. 
 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Goliath