The Guardian view on canals: a national success story under threat

[David Mack]

"There are many good reasons to want to see the back of this government, but one of the most emotionally compelling is its distaste for the kind of public infrastructure that makes life better for people. It remains to be seen whether ministers will choose to ignore the overwhelming opposition to plans to close railway station ticket offices. But their apparent willingness to endanger the spectacular renaissance of the country’s canals is evidence of the same ideological blind spot: the modern Conservative party just doesn’t understand the value of public goods."

 

Or as one of the commenter below the article puts it "Tory mantra of last gasp: If it ain’t broke just break it."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/22/the-guardian-view-on-canals-a-national-success-story-under-threat

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by David Mack

[Wanderer Vagabond]

The trouble is that so much has been wrecked in the past 10 years, how do you draw up the list of priorities in trying to fix them? I too would like to see the support needed for the canals, but then when someone asks me,"But what about the terrible state of all of our roads?"  I'd have to put fixing them above the canals simply because they've gone beyond being badly maintained to the level of being downright dangerous. The culture war that is being created over Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTN's) with their 20mph speed limits is farcical, who wants to travel faster than that on roads pitted with massive potholes that no-one is fixing?

[Stilllearning]

14 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

The trouble is that so much has been wrecked in the past 10 years, how do you draw up the list of priorities in trying to fix them? I too would like to see the support needed for the canals, but then when someone asks me,"But what about the terrible state of all of our roads?"  I'd have to put fixing them above the canals simply because they've gone beyond being badly maintained to the level of being downright dangerous. The culture war that is being created over Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTN's) with their 20mph speed limits is farcical, who wants to travel faster than that on roads pitted with massive potholes that no-one is fixing?

On the subject of UK roads, I will hold my comments until we are in the country next month. Canals are a priority too, of course.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

1 hour ago, Stilllearning said:

On the subject of UK roads, I will hold my comments until we are in the country next month. Canals are a priority too, of course.

I should come in a Toyota Hi-Lux or Land Rover if I were you, that is what you need on our roads now given the state of them.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Stilllearning said:

On the subject of UK roads, I will hold my comments until we are in the country next month. Canals are a priority too, of course.

 

Depends where you are going as it very much varies by council area for the smaller roads. M ways and A roads are not too bad.

 

Road surface conditions are not really the biggest issue but rather congestion and traffic volumes compared to France, especially in popular tourist spots.

 

Personally I much prefer driving on your side of the channel.

[magpie patrick]

16 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

The trouble is that so much has been wrecked in the past 10 years, how do you draw up the list of priorities in trying to fix them? I too would like to see the support needed for the canals, but then when someone asks me,"But what about the terrible state of all of our roads?"  I'd have to put fixing them above the canals simply because they've gone beyond being badly maintained to the level of being downright dangerous. The culture war that is being created over Low Traffic Neighbourhoods (LTN's) with their 20mph speed limits is farcical, who wants to travel faster than that on roads pitted with massive potholes that no-one is fixing?

 

You've got two completely different road issues there - only one of which is lack of maintenance

 

If I draw a comparison with the town in which I live, we have two formal-ish parks and a large green space known as the showground (because many years ago the annual show used to be held there) - the roads aren't great but losing the parks would have a far bigger detrimental impact on the "feel good" factor of the town than could be created by fixing the roads, if I had to chose between keeping the parks or fixing the potholes I'd keep the parks

[magnetman]

I haven't driven in De La France for a few yars but when the kids were little (they are half French) I did take the old Saab 9000 Aero across De La France from Calais to Dijon a number of times to visit their relatives.

 

The surface over there is absolutely wicked on the toll motorways. Something else. Compared to Englandland it was like flying rather than driving. Coming back off the chunnel trains and driving on UK roads was such a disappointment!

 

Quite costly on the tolls but hells teeth they know about good quality road surfaces. 

 

Les Routes Nationales are not as good. 

 

Englandland is the best country in the world bar none so I would never consider living in De La France. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stilllearning]

30 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I haven't driven in De La France for a few yars but when the kids were little (they are half French) I did take the old Saab 9000 Aero across De La France from Calais to Dijon a number of times to visit their relatives.

 

The surface over there is absolutely wicked on the toll motorways. Something else. Compared to Englandland it was like flying rather than driving. Coming back off the chunnel trains and driving on UK roads was such a disappointment!

 

Quite costly on the tolls but hells teeth they know about good quality road surfaces. 

 

Les Routes Nationales are not as good. 

 

Englandland is the best country in the world bar none so I would never consider living in De La France. 

 

 

 

 

 

"England land is the best country in the world"....bloody hell sunshine, get the blinkers and rose tinted specs off, and open your eyes and mind!

Just imagine living in a small country town, population 1750, with a station, supermarket, 24/7 petrol station, 4 GPs, cottage hospital, dentist, 2 bakeries, butcher/deli, cinema, chemist, pottery, porcelaine factory, post office, bank, 6 restaurants.....

Oh, and De La France isn't wonderful French either.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Stilllearning

[magnetman]

Living in a small country town sounds like hell to me. Give me inner city or the woods thanks ! 

 

Englandland is the best thing since bread never mind the sliced stuff. 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by magnetman
typ

[Stilllearning]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

Living in a small country town sounds like hell to me. Give me inner city or the woods thanks ! 

 

Englandland is the best thing since bread never mind the sliced stuff. 

 

 

You are aware that "englandland" isn't a real place, aren't you?

[Alan de Enfield]

46 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

 

Englandland is the best country in the world bar none so I would never consider living in De La France. 

 

 

Some don't have any choice - exiled until the statute of limitations expires.

[magnetman]

Just now, Stilllearning said:

You are aware that "englandland" isn't a real place, aren't you?

Yes and I know De La France isn't either. It is an affectation and attempt at mildly humourous use of language. 

 

I am familiar with some French places and never had the feeling I would want to live there. If the woman and kids were to go and live there I would be staying here. 

 

I much prefer the UK to France. 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

1 hour ago, magpie patrick said:

 

You've got two completely different road issues there - only one of which is lack of maintenance

 

If I draw a comparison with the town in which I live, we have two formal-ish parks and a large green space known as the showground (because many years ago the annual show used to be held there) - the roads aren't great but losing the parks would have a far bigger detrimental impact on the "feel good" factor of the town than could be created by fixing the roads, if I had to chose between keeping the parks or fixing the potholes I'd keep the parks

Interestingly I travelled to your town back in March, up the A37 from Podimore up to Shepton and the road is nothing short of a disgrace. Why am I weaving all over the road, am I drunk? nope, I'm steering around the potholes which were numerous. What could have been improved 8 or 9 years ago with top dressing (yes, I know it breaks windscreens) can now only be fixed by completely re-surfacing the road. Is that going to happen any time soon? not that I can see so the disgraceful condition of the road is simply going to deteriorate further, probably until a motorcyclist get killed at night hitting one of the potholes (and other than the usual 'lessons will be learned' probably not even then). This isn't unique to your area, pretty much wherever I've gone in recent years the road conditions have been dire from anywhere in the South West (the bus I was on in Cornwall felt as though it had run over a breeze block when it hit one of many potholes) to the Midlands all around Birmingham to the East of the Country around Lincoln and up through to the Wolds. The only place I've heard have reasonable road conditions was in the North East, but that is anecdotal.

 

Whilst I do get your point about the 'feel good' factor, the state of our roads is now becoming a matter of public safety. I've said before that as a cyclist I have now ceased using hand signals to indicate my intentions because if simply isn't safe to take one hand off the handlebars to do so any more. 

[TheBiscuits]

4 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I should come in a Toyota Hi-Lux or Land Rover if I were you, that is what you need on our roads now given the state of them.

 

Nah, the prime minister uses a helicopter ...

[magpie patrick]

5 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Interestingly I travelled to your town back in March, up the A37 from Podimore up to Shepton and the road is nothing short of a disgrace. Why am I weaving all over the road, am I drunk? nope, I'm steering around the potholes which were numerous. What could have been improved 8 or 9 years ago with top dressing (yes, I know it breaks windscreens) can now only be fixed by completely re-surfacing the road. Is that going to happen any time soon? not that I can see so the disgraceful condition of the road is simply going to deteriorate further, probably until a motorcyclist get killed at night hitting one of the potholes (and other than the usual 'lessons will be learned' probably not even then). This isn't unique to your area, pretty much wherever I've gone in recent years the road conditions have been dire from anywhere in the South West (the bus I was on in Cornwall felt as though it had run over a breeze block when it hit one of many potholes) to the Midlands all around Birmingham to the East of the Country around Lincoln and up through to the Wolds. The only place I've heard have reasonable road conditions was in the North East, but that is anecdotal.

 

Whilst I do get your point about the 'feel good' factor, the state of our roads is now becoming a matter of public safety. I've said before that as a cyclist I have now ceased using hand signals to indicate my intentions because if simply isn't safe to take one hand off the handlebars to do so any more. 

You are not the first person to try and tell someone who lives in the area that you know better - although usually it's about the Kennet and Avon Canal.

 

I regularly drive the main roads round here including the A37 - I'm not saying they're perfect but given I also regularly drive to Manchester, Chesterfield (sometimes crossing the peak district) and Lincolnshire I can say they are not noticeably worse and I don't recognise your description - I don't weave to avoid potholes on the A37 and no-one else I know does either. I think you're exaggerating. 

 

That's not to say we don't have concerns about our local roads, but it's the A361 Frome Bypass that is foremost - from Nunney to Beckington and then the A36 to Warminster has had an appalling safety record of late, mainly due to excess speed, I don't mean a few mph over the limit I mean frightening speeds. Last week two young sisters lost their lives when their car hit by an unlicensed driver  doing the best part of 100. Two Christmases ago it was a teacher at the local college - that ruined Christmas for most of the town.

 

In a way this shows the problem of allocating resources - in a vote between potholes and stopping the carnage on the Bypass the latter would win hands down. We might even give up the Showground for that. 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

2 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

You are not the first person to try and tell someone who lives in the area that you know better - although usually it's about the Kennet and Avon Canal.

 

I regularly drive the main roads round here including the A37 - I'm not saying they're perfect but given I also regularly drive to Manchester, Chesterfield (sometimes crossing the peak district) and Lincolnshire I can say they are not noticeably worse and I don't recognise your description - I don't weave to avoid potholes on the A37 and no-one else I know does either. I think you're exaggerating. 

 

That's not to say we don't have concerns about our local roads, but it's the A361 Frome Bypass that is foremost - from Nunney to Beckington and then the A36 to Warminster has had an appalling safety record of late, mainly due to excess speed, I don't mean a few mph over the limit I mean frightening speeds. Last week two young sisters lost their lives when their car hit by an unlicensed driver  doing the best part of 100. Two Christmases ago it was a teacher at the local college - that ruined Christmas for most of the town.

 

In a way this shows the problem of allocating resources - in a vote between potholes and stopping the carnage on the Bypass the latter would win hands down. We might even give up the Showground for that. 

Which rather suggests that we are simply getting used to having crap roads. I don't own a car so when I'm driving one it will be a hire car, and the insurance does not cover damage to the underside of the vehicle or the tyres, so I tend to make a point of not hitting potholes, and on the A37 there are a lot between Podimore and Shepton. It is possible to see some of them on Google street level but the images were taken in 2021 and they are a lot worse now. I particularly noticed it because whilst I am now used to most of the roads around town and also country lanes all being crap, that is a fairly fast A class road with the sort of potholes that could cause a motorcyclist serious concern if hit at night without seeing it beforehand. So no exaggerations here, if I were still riding my motorcycle I would certainly avoid that road.

[Stilllearning]

 None of the above make me feel better about driving from around Chard up to Liverpool and back. We had planned to avoid the motorways, purely for reasons based around tourism, but maybe we will be on the m5 and 6. Oh good.

 

[cuthound]

3 hours ago, Stilllearning said:

 None of the above make me feel better about driving from around Chard up to Liverpool and back. We had planned to avoid the motorways, purely for reasons based around tourism, but maybe we will be on the m5 and 6. Oh good.

 

 

Whilst the motorways are much better maintained than the A roads, they are deteriorating.

 

For the last 10 years I have driven the M42, M40 & M25 at least once a month. Up until 5 years ago potholes were very rare and filled in soon (days) after they appeared.

 

Now there are frequent long potholes developing between the lanes which are a couple of inches deep as well as smaller ones, perhaps an inch deep in the lanes themselves.

[Stilllearning]

33 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Whilst the motorways are much better maintained than the A roads, they are deteriorating.

 

For the last 10 years I have driven the M42, M40 & M25 at least once a month. Up until 5 years ago potholes were very rare and filled in soon (days) after they appeared.

 

Now there are frequent long potholes developing between the lanes which are a couple of inches deep as well as smaller ones, perhaps an inch deep in the lanes themselves.

I do find it difficult to believe that the country has gone that far downhill since we lived there, but hey-ho, we are committed to the visit.

[Wanderer Vagabond]

4 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

I do find it difficult to believe that the country has gone that far downhill since we lived there, but hey-ho, we are committed to the visit.

This an image of our intrepid leader examining a pothole in Darlington.

 

but politics aside, it illustrates perfectly exactly what the problem is. They have obviously marked in white around the relevant hole (since the paint has severely faded one can assume that it was painted a while ago) but just look at the rest of the surrounding road surface, it is all breaking up and putting a couple of bobs worth of asphalt into that hole will do nothing constructive at all, but that will be all that they do.  Within months there will be another pothole to deal with, the whole road surface now need to be ripped up and resurfaced but they don't have the money. 10 years ago they could probably have got away with simply top-dressing it, but it is way beyond that stage now, and that situation is reflected throughout the country.