Severn towing - butties?

[Francis Herne]

While clicking around on CRT's site I came across this:

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/about-us/where-we-work/wales-and-south-west/towing-vessels-from-sharpness-port

 

Read strictly it suggests that anyone taking a pair on the Severn or G&S must submit a towing application - £150 fee, £3m insurance cover and so on - as there's no exception described either for small(ish) craft or for non-commercial activity, which seems ridiculously onerous.

 

Is that actually the case, in theory or practice?

 

I'm guessing @Captain Pegg may be the man in the know.

 

Asking purely out of curiosity, since I don't have a butty. Although...come to think of it, my canoe "tender" isn't obviously exempted!

Edited July 18, 2023 by Francis Herne

[Rob-M]

That reads to me that it is for vessels coming in through Sharpness docks.

[Francis Herne]

5 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

That reads to me that it is for vessels coming in through Sharpness docks.

I agree the info page can be read that way.

 

The document itself seems fairly clear on applying to all movements though:

Quote

The following guidelines and requirements relate to towage operations within Canal & River Trust waters, being Sharpness Port, Gloucester and Sharpness Canal and the River Severn from Gloucester to Stourport on Severn.

 

Towage operations may include the provision of assistance to an operational vessel, the movement of ‘dead’ vessels and the movement of barges and floating equipment and plant into, out of or within the waterway area.

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Francis Herne

[IanM]

To be fair on those waterways you would probably be breasted up with a pair so not exactly in the realms of towing. 

 

I would take it that it's more aimed at something big and heavy under tow breaking loose and damaging infrastructure.

[Captain Pegg]

The document is ambiguous in its wording but I too think it is intended to apply to any towing operations on those waterways.

The operation of traditional pairs of narrow boats is generally exempt from MCA towing requirements (I suspect limited to Cat A and B waters but I’m not in a place where I can easily check).

 

However that doesn’t mean that CRT can’t apply an additional process and at face value this would apply to pairs (in line or abreast because breasted up is still legally towing).

 

However I suspect once you’d been through the courtesy of informing CRT of your intentions - at least as a voluntary group or pleasure boater on a non-commercial voyage - they probably won’t require too much convincing.

 

ETA - these are all Cat B waters

 

 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Captain Pegg

[Stroudwater1]

9 hours ago, IanM said:

To be fair on those waterways you would probably be breasted up with a pair so not exactly in the realms of towing. 

 

I would take it that it's more aimed at something big and heavy under tow breaking loose and damaging infrastructure.

 

Wouldn’t they be towing on the canal? I had thought it more efficient/ fuel saving?

 

Would have been rather costly for these lot (taken from a book on the G&S canal)

 

 

 

 

 

[David Mack]

Since the document refers to the need for a commercial insurance policy and a company name for the owner of the towing vessel, I suspect this only applies to commercial towing arrangements. So a private boater with a pleasure craft licence should not be affected, whether towing a dinghy or a 70 ft butty.

[IanM]

6 hours ago, Stroudwater1 said:

 

Wouldn’t they be towing on the canal? I had thought it more efficient/ fuel saving?

 

Would have been rather costly for these lot (taken from a book on the G&S canal)

 

 

 

 

 

That’s hardly a narrow boat and butty as per the original post though. 

[Tam & Di]

1 hour ago, IanM said:

That’s hardly a narrow boat and butty as per the original post though. 

To be fair the original post said only that there was no apparent exemption for small leisure craft - they are simply part of a larger picture. It does talk specifically of craft coming from Sharpness Port so the emphasis is on large commercial craft.

The waterways mentioned would include pleasureboats on a voyage from the K&A round towards Gloucester, but I doubt that there are many doing that which involve a tow. 

Edited July 19, 2023 by Tam & Di

[Chewbacka]

The text states “Vessels towed through Sharpness Docks and along both the Gloucester & Sharpness Canal and River Severn Navigation need to have the tow approved.”

The tow needs to start or end at Sharpness docks.  If you don’t transit the dock I don’t think it applies.

[Francis Herne]

49 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

The text states “Vessels towed through Sharpness Docks and along both the Gloucester & Sharpness Canal and River Severn Navigation need to have the tow approved.”

The tow needs to start or end at Sharpness docks.  If you don’t transit the dock I don’t think it applies.

As above though, the application form itself states (my emphasis):

Quote

The following guidelines and requirements relate to towage operations within Canal & River Trust waters, being Sharpness Port, Gloucester and Sharpness Canal and the River Severn from Gloucester to Stourport on Severn.

 

Towage operations may include the provision of assistance to an operational vessel, the movement of ‘dead’ vessels and the movement of barges and floating equipment and plant into, out of or within the waterway area.

That wording seems to clearly include movements not transiting the docks, and adding the "within" would be hard to do as an oversight.

 

I do agree that the requirements give the impression that only large tows were considered, but they still seem to me to include narrowboats on paper, even if that's by accident.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Francis Herne

[Tam & Di]

I'm not convinced by that interpretation. It does say 'through' Sharpness Docks, not 'from and to .....' the Docks, and any vessel coming up off the Severn through the lock will in reality pass through the Docks en route. It is simply that the tidal waters below the lock are outside of C&RT jurisdiction. The application form is headed TOWAGE REQUIREMENTS: SHARPNESS PORT; GLOUCESTER AND SHARPNESS CANAL AND RIVER SEVERN which makes it  clear that they are regarded as separate - it does not simply apply to a journey from the Dock along the G&S Canal and continuing up the Severn Navigation, but would apply to each of the three waters mentioned individually, e.g. a tow confined entirely to the Severn Navigation.

 

The form talks extensively of commercial towing operation involving multiple tugs, and of a tug and tow with maximum beam 8.5m and maximum airdaft 38m so they're not going to get far with those dimensions.

 

It's an extremely loose bit of wording though, and is applicable right up to where you come onto the river at Diglis and on up to Stourport-on-Severn.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Tam & Di

[harrybsmith]

I shall ask someone who regularly tows boats on the Severn next time I see them and see what they do, I have a sneaking suspicion it'll be "to heck with them and get on with it" 

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, harrybsmith said:

I shall ask someone who regularly tows boats on the Severn next time I see them and see what they do, I have a sneaking suspicion it'll be "to heck with them and get on with it" 

A friend ran aground on the Severn last week and it cost them £600 for a tow off, maybe it included the CRT payment

[Francis Herne]

That sounds a bit steep!  No-one around willing to help out, or somehow stuck beyond the capability of a typical narrowboat to snatch it off?

 

I'm on the Severn still and could have given it a try, but Lark is ~5 ton so would probably just bounce...

Edited July 22, 2023 by Francis Herne