Kegworth Deep Lock sinking

[Barneyp]

1 hour ago, MrsM said:

Really good points but it's the worst case scenario I think I would be weakest at and, being a good former scout leader, I'd like to be prepared. In a case similar to the subject boat, with the bow immersed in a deep leaky lock would you lift the bottom paddles to prevent the lock filling? 

If the boat is bow down in the water, and the lock is at its lowest, then opening the bottom paddles will stop more water going into the boat.

If the lock is not at it's lowest then opening the bottom paddles may mean the bow goes down and the boat is left at a steeper angle, potentially letting more water in and causing more damage and making recovery more difficult (expensive). Even if part of the boat is touching the bottom the water may still be supporting the boat to some degree.

[dmr]

1 hour ago, frangar said:

A battery angle grinder soon solves this issue I’ve found. After representations by the Navigation Advisory Group there shouldn’t be any new ones of these fitted. 

 

But there are quite a few of the existing ones still in service and they are a right pain and dangerous.

Another danger is the very low (high?) ratio reduction boxes fitted on some paddles. In an emergency it is just not possible to get the paddle down quickly enough. We had a very nasty moment a few years ago due to this issue. We survived but CRT had to rehang the gate 😀.

[frangar]

3 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

But there are quite a few of the existing ones still in service and they are a right pain and dangerous.

Another danger is the very low (high?) ratio reduction boxes fitted on some paddles. In an emergency it is just not possible to get the paddle down quickly enough. We had a very nasty moment a few years ago due to this issue. We survived but CRT had to rehang the gate 😀.

Feel free to DM me locations as and when you find them….be good to make

CRT aware and get them removed 

[dmr]

10 minutes ago, frangar said:

Feel free to DM me locations as and when you find them….be good to make

CRT aware and get them removed 

Will do.

There is one on a top paddle on the Rochdale somewhere between Hebden and Todmorden but can't remember which lock. Its very irritating, especially on a stiff paddle where you might want both hands on the windlass.

Its a bit different but all of the Rochdale bottom paddles have a big locking lever which needs to be held so these require two hands. Often the lever is a bit stiff so will hold itself in place but not sure if this is how it should be or just a fortunate lack of maintance.

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Tacet said:

  There is a horrible situation where the stern slips off the cill and the whole boat sinks deep into the lock.

I am surprised they dont slip off the angle they get down to and a small surface area of contact 

34 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

But there are quite a few of the existing ones still in service and they are a right pain and dangerous.

Another danger is the very low (high?) ratio reduction boxes fitted on some paddles. In an emergency it is just not possible to get the paddle down quickly enough. We had a very nasty moment a few years ago due to this issue. We survived but CRT had to rehang the gate 😀.

That was my problem on the way down to Chester, about 50 rotations of the windlass to lower the paddle.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I am surprised they dont slip off the angle they get down to and a small surface area of contact 

 

The problem then though is the resulting wave generated as the stern falls will likely overwhelm the boat anyway.

 

That was what happened in the Drum Major fatal accident on the Leeds and Liverpool (though it was the bow hung up on the bottom gate rather than the stern hung on the cill).

[MtB]

1 hour ago, dmr said:

Will do.

There is one on a top paddle on the Rochdale somewhere between Hebden and Todmorden but can't remember which lock. Its very irritating, especially on a stiff paddle where you might want both hands on the windlass.

Its a bit different but all of the Rochdale bottom paddles have a big locking lever which needs to be held so these require two hands. Often the lever is a bit stiff so will hold itself in place but not sure if this is how it should be or just a fortunate lack of maintance.

 

There is one I lock encounter occasionally where there are two of these confounded reduction gearboxes in series on the gates. Top of Crofton possibly. Over 100 turns open to shut. 

[Mike Todd]

3 hours ago, Tacet said:

Well, yes but by no means is it universal practice and I wouldn't go so far as to say it is an inappropriate risk, in all circumstances.  

It is sensible to weigh the various dangers, of course.

You have to trade off being in the lock as it  descends and climbing down a long ladder. The circumstances just below the lock, esp on rives, can determine the least risky option.

[MoominPapa]

45 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

There is one I lock encounter occasionally where there are two of these confounded reduction gearboxes in series on the gates. Top of Crofton possibly. Over 100 turns open to shut. 

Try the River Nene. Dozens of turns to get the gate paddles up and down. If you want to close a guillotine that's emptying a lock, best of luck. Hint: the  emergency stop button on the control panel is not the one you want. DAMHIK.

 

MP 

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, MoominPapa said:

Try the River Nene. Dozens of turns to get the gate paddles up and down. If you want to close a guillotine that's emptying a lock, best of luck. Hint: the  emergency stop button on the control panel is not the one you want. DAMHIK.

 

MP 

No it does what it says on the tin, Stops it.

[dmr]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

There is one I lock encounter occasionally where there are two of these confounded reduction gearboxes in series on the gates. Top of Crofton possibly. Over 100 turns open to shut. 

 

There is a lock here where the gates (short balance beams) are opened/closed with a windlass and thats over 70 turns. I am tempted to investigate using my bigger Makita drill with a suitable socket.

[Stroudwater1]

I must say I always like to stay on our 57’ boat in locks, trying to keep the boat roughly in the centre away from both gates. 

Going  up you are in view of the rudder clearing the gates as they are shut  so it’s not stuck in the gate, then generally (except up the Cheshire flight) you can keep the boat roughly in the centre of the lock. Going down you are in direct view of the cill and white cill marker. You are less likely to be chatting to people as you are moving away from them or right down if you are ascending . Again try to keep central. You usually get sucked forward going down so a brief gentle reverse at first usually keeps the boat clear of the gates and cill. 

With my hand on the engine control I am away from the tiller arc. You also can tell if the boat is angling at all. We had a stuck out bit of stone on one the the Huddersfield narrow locks, which made the boat slew sideways. It was easy to spot and rectify. It wouldn’t have been so easy to spot from the lock side. 
 

My technique is less satisfactory in a longer boat which I think MtB  has I appreciate. 
 

[MtB]

41 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

My technique is less satisfactory in a longer boat which I think MtB  has I appreciate. 

 

Also, I'm single handing which means if I were to stay on the boat, I'd be entrusting some random on the bank to operate the paddles.

 

And I know from experience randoms tend to regard their job as done the second the paddles are up, and wander off. Which is fine most of the time, but not on the odd occasion Something Goes Wrong and you need the paddles closed in a hurry, and there is no-one there to do it. 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Stroudwater1 said:

I must say I always like to stay on our 57’ boat in locks, trying to keep the boat roughly in the centre away from both gates. 

Going  up you are in view of the rudder clearing the gates as they are shut  so it’s not stuck in the gate, then generally (except up the Cheshire flight) you can keep the boat roughly in the centre of the lock. Going down you are in direct view of the cill and white cill marker. You are less likely to be chatting to people as you are moving away from them or right down if you are ascending . Again try to keep central. You usually get sucked forward going down so a brief gentle reverse at first usually keeps the boat clear of the gates and cill. 

With my hand on the engine control I am away from the tiller arc. You also can tell if the boat is angling at all. We had a stuck out bit of stone on one the the Huddersfield narrow locks, which made the boat slew sideways. It was easy to spot and rectify. It wouldn’t have been so easy to spot from the lock side. 
 

My technique is less satisfactory in a longer boat which I think MtB  has I appreciate. 
 

But if it goes wrong you have to communicate that to whoever is working the paddles

[johnmck]

It takes only a moment of distraction. 

Recently, on a quiet Saturday evening, we decided to drop down into Middlewich. Just before entering Wardle lock, we had a minor prop foul. Annoying, but not detrimental to boat handling.

Our normal process descending, is for me to drop the non towpath side paddle on the top , open the bottom paddle on the same side, then back on the boat to descend the lock.

But this time, the system failed. I was distracted by the prop foul. Did not close the top paddle on "my side", whilst Ali walked the short distance to the junction, to see if it was clear to wind and re enter the lock.

Initially, all was well. I tend to keep well forward in the lock descending, so initially did not notice a problem. But as the boat descended, it began to be drawn back towards the cill. Luckily,  by the time the stern was drawn fully back, the boat was below the cill.

 

But...

Did I think to sound to sound the horn to alert Ali?

Nope!

It can take but a moment of distraction.