George Ward evicted.

[Mrs Bearwood Boster]

3 hours ago, dmr said:

There appears to more and more people on the cut who are not that interested in boating and don't want to follow the simple rules.

The cut is a lovely relaxed place with very few rules, and even those are a bit flexible, but when "boaters" push things too far it goes wrong, and is likely to go wrong for all of us. We now have thug looking baliffs strutting the towpath and helping to remove boats. CRT do not have the staff to enforce the rules against serious objectors and have already had a fatality, so if they decide to hand enforcement over to a private parking company, or even a security company, can we really blame them?. People like George and his supporters are going to make things worse for all of us.

Went up the Ashby for the first time in years last month-seemed to be far more long termers without moorings than there were 8 years ago.Lots of the nice mooring spots were full with the same boats both ways.Had a night in Trinity marina to use their laundry & they are having problems at the moment.Their cctv shows boats moored outside using kayaks/row boats to come into the marina in the early hours of the morning.They move around the marina stopping every so often but haven't been seen doing anything apart from taking a boat hook.

[Heartland]

The discussion continues, but perhaps somebody can explain if George Ward has paid anything at any time for mooring fees or contributed in any way to the canal network during his long association with it.

 

[Arthur Marshall]

Just now, Heartland said:

The discussion continues, but perhaps somebody can explain if George Ward has paid anything at any time for mooring fees or contributed in any way to the canal network during his long association with it.

 

According to him and reports, yes. Licence, anyway.

[Heartland]

Thanks for the clarification

 

[Tonka]

10 hours ago, Barneyp said:

Sorry, I made the mistake of imagining people understood the situation.

 

George Ward was not only not paying for a mooring, he was also not paying for a license because he did not have a Boat Safety Certificate.

Over the years he was given quite a lot of money by his so called supporters, and he was entitled to some benefits. He refused to engage with the system or accept offers of help from CRT.

 

Even if CRT got a new Act of Parliament which enabled them to charge mooring fees for boats permanently moored on the towpath they would still require the boats to have BSS. And the people on the boats would need to claim the relevant benefits and pay the money to CRT. It seems unlikely George Ward would do this so your "solution" does not work.

So if the boat does not have a safety certificate it is deemed unsafe so CRT should remove it to help protect the public that walk along the towpath.

[kris88]

If he had a licence then surely it had a safety cert?

[Tonka]

4 minutes ago, kris88 said:

If he had a licence then surely it had a safety cert?

you do know that they are separate things? 

[john.k]

The age of the angry agressive arrogant tresspasser ........they call themselves  Non Conformists ,Sovereign Individuals ,Climate activists ,Free people .........free loaders would be more correct...............Go back a few years and society had a sure fire cure for these people ....... a turn in the stocks ,with ears nailed to the wood.

[magnetman]

12 minutes ago, Tonka said:

you do know that they are separate things? 

You do need a BS certificate in order to buy a licence.

They are separate things but connected legally via the 1995 BW Act. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The simple fact in this case is that the boat was moored without legal authority and in this situation the Trust may remove the boat. 

 

This is what happend. 

 

QED. Not a lot of rocket science here. 

 

 

[Tonka]

11 minutes ago, magnetman said:

You do need a BS certificate in order to buy a licence.

They are separate things but connected legally via the 1995 BW Act. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The simple fact in this case is that the boat was moored without legal authority and in this situation the Trust may remove the boat. 

 

This is what happend. 

 

QED. Not a lot of rocket science here. 

 

 

If you do not abide to the rules of the road they remove your car and/or your licence

If you do not abide by the rules of the canal then they should remove the boat.

If the NBTA can not abide by them rules then surely they should go to a place where they do not have rules

[MtB]

22 minutes ago, magnetman said:

 

The simple fact in this case is that the boat was moored without legal authority and in this situation the Trust may remove the boat. 

 

This is what happend. 

 

QED. Not a lot of rocket science here. 

 

Its remarkable that several posters here support Mr Ward in his illegal CMing and spreading of all his shit over the public towpath.

 

I get the feeling they support him because they secretly quite like the idea of doing the same themselves.

 

 

[kris88]

40 minutes ago, Tonka said:

you do know that they are separate things? 

Do you know that you need a safety cert to get a licence? 

[Tonka]

1 minute ago, kris88 said:

Do you know that you need a safety cert to get a licence? 

yes but the safety cert can run out before the licence ends.

[magnetman]

The trick is to get the BS done after the end of the licence then you get a 5 yar BS certificate. 

 

? Did I get the math wrong ?

 

Example:

 

Licence renewal date 1 January 2023. BS awarded February 2023 valid until February 2027. 

 

Therefore valid for Licences 23,24,25,26,27. 

 

In theory anyway ! 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Tonka said:

yes but the safety cert can run out before the licence ends.

 

Maybe there is a theory that if the boat had passed a BS inspection -at some point- then it basically safe. Of course this could happen if there had been a rogue BS inspector who had later left the job and had a habit of passing boats which were not actually fulfilling all the requirements. 

 

There was the bloke who did them over the phone. 

 

 

[Lady M]

However, if during that 11 months with a licence but no current BSS, an insurance claim becomes necessary.  If the claim was due to something a BSS would have picked up, then it may not be paid.  Indeed some insurers may require a valid BSS at all times.

[magnetman]

1 minute ago, Lady C said:

However, if during that 11 months with a licence but no current BSS, an insurance claim becomes necessary.  If the claim was due to something a BSS would have picked up, then it may not be paid.  Indeed some insurers may require a valid BSS at all times.

Good point.

Worth checking that. I only have 3rd party insurance as a legal requirement and I don't think they mention BSS but will have a look now you mention it. 

 

 

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Lady C said:

However, if during that 11 months with a licence but no current BSS, an insurance claim becomes necessary.  If the claim was due to something a BSS would have picked up, then it may not be paid.  Indeed some insurers may require a valid BSS at all times.

 

 

Even if Mr Ward had a BSS throughout the time of his CMing, I have this niggling doubt that his boats were comprehensively insured. 

 

Or even third party insured.

 

Am I being unreasonably suspicious perhaps?

 

 

 

 

[Tonka]

1 minute ago, magnetman said:

Good point.

Worth checking that. I only have 3rd party insurance as a legal requirement and I don't think they mention BSS but will have a look now you mention it. 

 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Lady C said:

However, if during that 11 months with a licence but no current BSS, an insurance claim becomes necessary.  If the claim was due to something a BSS would have picked up, then it may not be paid.  Indeed some insurers may require a valid BSS at all times.

is car insurance only valid on the day you have the mot test. Please get real

[Barneyp]

2 minutes ago, Tonka said:

 

is car insurance only valid on the day you have the mot test. Please get real

A condition of car insurance is that you have a valid MOT.

I.e. if your MOT expires during the insurance you have to get a new one

3 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

According to him and reports, yes. Licence, anyway.

 

3 hours ago, Heartland said:

Thanks for the clarification

 

How does it make any difference if he paid for a license a long time ago?

To have a license you need to pay the fee AND comply with the relevant rules at all times - clearly he has not been doing this for several years.

[magnetman]

1 hour ago, Barneyp said:

A condition of car insurance is that you have a valid MOT.

I.e. if your MOT expires during the insurance you have to get a new one

 

How does it make any difference if he paid for a license a long time ago?

To have a license you need to pay the fee AND comply with the relevant rules at all times - clearly he has not been doing this for several years.

I believe @Heartland was referring to the possibility that someone with 'attitude' had arrived on the canal with no intention of ever paying for a licence or being concerned with boat safety or insurance. This does happen from time to time and it is reasonably interesting to think about how long it takes to resolve/get rid. 

 

This would obviously be a different topic to someone who through the ravages of ageing and perhaps poor decision making gradually ended up on an unlicensed boat despite initially being compliant and relatively well organised. 

 

If it was the latter, "which appears to be the case", the best route is for them to be encouraged to accept assistance from the social services whose job it is to help house those who are in trouble. 

 

Removing the boat is the right solution for this for a number of different reasons. 

 

 

 

Removing the tent and all associated artifacts from the CRT land adjacent to the canal is also the right solution but presumably requires a different legal process. 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 hours ago, Tonka said:

 

 

is car insurance only valid on the day you have the mot test. Please get real

 

I'm sure she meant that insurers require you to have a valid (in date) BSS for the duration of the policy (C&RT certainly require that for the licence.

 

So if your BSS expires in (say) March, but your licence and insurance is not due until (say) August and you do not renew it then it is qute possible that the insurers will say your policy is invalid, and C&RT will say that your licence is invalidated.

 

BSS also state that by doing work on your boat you can invalidate your BSS certificate (which is sensible really) - if you work on the gas system and make a cock-up and leave a big leak, when your boat goes BOOM you will find that you have no BSS, No insurance and No licence.

 

 

Read the T&Cs on your BSS ..............................

 

 

The owner’s on-going responsibility: it is crucial to maintain the vessel in good condition in accordance with the safety requirements; and, any other licensing, registration or mooring conditions of the relevant navigation or harbour authority. The validity of a BSS pass result may be affected and can be cancelled if the vessel is not properly maintained; and/or non-compliant alterations are made....

[David Schweizer]

45 minutes ago, magnetman said:

I believe @Heartland was referring to the possibility that someone with 'attitude' had arrived on the canal with no intention of ever paying for a licence or being concerned with boat safety or insurance. This does happen from time to time and it is reasonably interesting to think about how long it takes to resolve/get rid. 

 

This would obviously be a different topic to someone who through the ravages of ageing and perhaps poor decision making gradually ended up on an unlicensed boat despite initially being compliant and relatively well organised. 

 

If it was the latter, "which appears to be the case", the best route is for them to be encouraged to accept assistance from the social services whose job it is to help house those who are in trouble. 

 

Removing the boat is the right solution for this for a number of different reasons. 

 

 

 

Removing the tent and all associated artifacts from the CRT land adjacent to the canal is also the right solution but presumably requires a different legal process. 

 

 

 

On Friday Heartland posted that there was a video made ten years ago interviewing Bradford on Avon Boaters, and that Mr  Ward stated that he had previously been a traveller, who had bought a boat. So hardly in the catagory you suggest, of having initially being a compliant boater.

 

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by David Schweizer

[magnetman]

I did mention before that he might be a pikey. The behaviour is very reminiscent of this group. 

 

 

 

9:30 and 19:10 in this video (I''ll award a gold medal and a nice bottle of beer to anyone who can watch the whole thing without throwing something at the screen) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All that is happening in reality is the development of slum housing areas. Its not complicated. The problem with slums is that they are not tolerated by society and they get dealt with. 

 

When these slums get dealt with there is a high probability that it will be detrimental to large numbers of people who are not involved. 

 

Canals are becoming slums. It has been going on for a while but obviously over time with increasing cost of living and population it will get worse. 

 

It can't not happen. It is inevitable. 

 

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

3 hours ago, john.k said:

The age of the angry agressive arrogant tresspasser ........they call themselves  Non Conformists ,Sovereign Individuals ,Climate activists ,Free people .........free loaders would be more correct...............Go back a few years and society had a sure fire cure for these people ....... a turn in the stocks ,with ears nailed to the wood.

Ah, you mean people like the suffragettes wanting the vote, trade unionists trying to end child labour and get decent wages, people who thought sheep stealers shouldn't be sent to Oz... damned impudent folk wanting rights of their own instead of tugging their forelocks and knowing their place...

[magnetman]

One wonders if established use of the land for storage of random shite might eventually make the land yours after a certain amount of time.