Realistic and Brutal Honesty Needed For Disabled Potential Boater

[MtB]

18 minutes ago, Jess-- said:

3. LPG water heater (will hammer gas bottles)

 

I agree with all you say but I'll quibble with this bit. 

 

When I lived aboard I had an LPG water heater (Morco D61) and showering every day plus washing up etc, the tiny 3.9kg propane bottle would last me about ten days. Weirdly the 6kg bottles seemed to last about three weeks and on a previous boat, a 17kg propane seemed to last half a lifetime. 

 

Space heating on the other hand really does hammer the gas bottles and I strongly advise against it. 

 

[Lady M]

My gas fridge and a Paloma get through a 13 Kg bottle in about 3 1/2 weeks, depending on ambient temperature.  Only having the Paloma pilot light lit when hot water is required definitely saves gas.

[BilgePump]

If this boat didn't get an offer at £2k then those that have seen it previously must have been scared off by more than one thing. Why has someone with access to a (boat)yard, skills, materials, tools and cheap crane/transport not bought it? Probably because it would become a money pit, even with all those resources to hand.

 

It looks as though it has been a guest room kind of boat, quirky and cute, but never had an engine. It should be possible to fit an outboard bracket to the back, but the power needs talked of can only be supplied by a shoreline, genny or diesel lump engine to batteries, which will cost more than the boat to source and install along with shaft and prop. Outboards may do a few led lights and phone charger but they are useless at putting in the power that would be pulled by a fridge/freezer. A good outboard will not be cheap. Even secondhand at ten years old and more, a decent 20hp outboard is in the £1k-£2k range. Similarly a few hundred watts of solar wouldn't manage well. 

 

At best the hull will need attention to the rust and some welding prior to blacking but it may need major overplating, which again could easily cost a multiple of the initial cost.

 

It will need relining at least above the gunwales, once all the deck fittings, vents and windows have been made watertight. Decent lining ply is not cheap per sheet, and you will need maybe a dozen.

 

An electrical system, water and gas installation will have to be done using appropriate cables, pipes and fittings. What are gas pipes and leccy cables made of? Copper which is a bloomin' fortune. Calorifier, hot water heater, stove etc not cheap. Everything will need doing to BSS standards from the start to avoid wasting money.

 

Paint, varnish, fabric etc etc

 

Current storage cost is over £2k per year for a thirty foot boat. That would cover a licence and northern mooring for the same. However, the time and money required to get this boat to a stage where it could be put back in the water and used will be significant.  Say a year of hardstanding, and then it will require lifting to water or truck.

 

Not trying to put the OP off getting into boats but this type of project presents way too many pitfalls and large costs to be viable for most people including myself.

 

I would instead echo a previous suggestion that a small GRP cruiser, that can be enjoyed in the summer for weekends from day one would be better to start with, on the budget that is available.

 

[Tony Brooks]

I am sorry to say but I am sure the OP definitely needs putting off this boat and project. he would have less hassle and anguish if he simply burned the money he intends spending. The boat is that cheap for a reason.

[Mad Harold]

2 hours ago, BilgePump said:

If this boat didn't get an offer at £2k then those that have seen it previously must have been scared off by more than one thing. Why has someone with access to a (boat)yard, skills, materials, tools and cheap crane/transport not bought it? Probably because it would become a money pit, even with all those resources to hand.

 

It looks as though it has been a guest room kind of boat, quirky and cute, but never had an engine. It should be possible to fit an outboard bracket to the back, but the power needs talked of can only be supplied by a shoreline, genny or diesel lump engine to batteries, which will cost more than the boat to source and install along with shaft and prop. Outboards may do a few led lights and phone charger but they are useless at putting in the power that would be pulled by a fridge/freezer. A good outboard will not be cheap. Even secondhand at ten years old and more, a decent 20hp outboard is in the £1k-£2k range. Similarly a few hundred watts of solar wouldn't manage well. 

 

At best the hull will need attention to the rust and some welding prior to blacking but it may need major overplating, which again could easily cost a multiple of the initial cost.

 

It will need relining at least above the gunwales, once all the deck fittings, vents and windows have been made watertight. Decent lining ply is not cheap per sheet, and you will need maybe a dozen.

 

An electrical system, water and gas installation will have to be done using appropriate cables, pipes and fittings. What are gas pipes and leccy cables made of? Copper which is a bloomin' fortune. Calorifier, hot water heater, stove etc not cheap. Everything will need doing to BSS standards from the start to avoid wasting money.

 

Paint, varnish, fabric etc etc

 

Current storage cost is over £2k per year for a thirty foot boat. That would cover a licence and northern mooring for the same. However, the time and money required to get this boat to a stage where it could be put back in the water and used will be significant.  Say a year of hardstanding, and then it will require lifting to water or truck.

 

Not trying to put the OP off getting into boats but this type of project presents way too many pitfalls and large costs to be viable for most people including myself.

 

I would instead echo a previous suggestion that a small GRP cruiser, that can be enjoyed in the summer for weekends from day one would be better to start with, on the budget that is available.

 

Well, the OP did ask for brutal honesty.

He's got it in spades here.

 

I do wholeheartedly agree with Bilgepump.

[Francis Herne]

On 19/04/2023 at 11:27, Tracy D'arth said:

30 ft is too small to live on, you cannot get enough solar on the roof to supply a meaningful amount of electricity.

 

Living on a 30ft boat, I rather have to disagree with this statement. 🙃

 

It's a small space that requires thought about what 'stuff' is necessary. That doesn't mean it's not a comfortable home. After all, the traditional boatman's cabin is only about 10-12ft long and I have 20ft!

 

Modern solar panels are pretty good - particularly in combination with lithium batteries, which have much less self-discharge and higher charge efficiency.

 

I currently have 400W, which covered my energy requirements entirely from April to October. Through the winter I only had to run the engine stationary for charging on a handful of occasions, some cruising and the occasional solar output made up the rest. A 'continuous moorer' moving only every 14 days would have to run stationary more. Large usable capacity and lithiums not needing to be fully charged regularly helps a lot, because sunny/cruising days average out with the bad ones.

 

I have space for a second 400W panel and plan to get one, mostly so I can substitute electric water heating & cooking for gas in the summer, falling back to gas and the woodburner in winter. It might also improve the winter situation a bit, but twice nothing is still nothing...

 

Obviously you can't run a "house" energy usage on that budget - 12V fridge, laptop and other small devices, lighting, water pumps etc. Total usage about 60Ah per day.

 

EDIT: to be clear, I would certainly advise the OP against buying this boat. It's nothing but a shell, and that shell is so poor in design, build and condition that throwing any more money at it would be madness.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Francis Herne

[Tam & Di]

7 hours ago, BilgePump said:

Current storage cost is over £2k per year for a thirty foot boat. That would cover a licence and northern mooring for the same. However, the time and money required to get this boat to a stage where it could be put back in the water and used will be significant.  Say a year of hardstanding, and then it will require lifting to water or truck.

The OP said the owner of the land will allow the boat to remain where it is while work is done, but I can't see any mention of the hard-standing fees involved. I don't imagine they would be free though. It would be pretty much impossible to live on the boat while doing the sort of work involved, so these non-productive costs would soon mount up. It's OK having something like this as a hobby, and many people do so, but that does not sound like the OP.

 

Tam

[BilgePump]

6 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

The OP said the owner of the land will allow the boat to remain where it is while work is done, but I can't see any mention of the hard-standing fees involved. I don't imagine they would be free though. It would be pretty much impossible to live on the boat while doing the sort of work involved, so these non-productive costs would soon mount up. It's OK having something like this as a hobby, and many people do so, but that does not sound like the OP.

 

Tam

Got the price from the OP

Quote "I added pictures if this helps and they say I can work on where it is

£557.23 every three months but I may be able to pay weekly"

[Tam & Di]

1 hour ago, BilgePump said:

Got the price from the OP

Quote "I added pictures if this helps and they say I can work on where it is

£557.23 every three months but I may be able to pay weekly"

 

Wow!! Just under £6.20 per week isn't going to break the bank is it! (nor make the land owner a millionaire over night. 😁)

 

Tam

[Mad Harold]

14 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

 

Wow!! Just under £6.20 per week isn't going to break the bank is it! (nor make the land owner a millionaire over night. 😁)

 

Tam

I make £557- 23  every three months,£42- 86 per week.

[Peanut]

Sorry, I am late to the party. I am about 50 yards from this boat.

 

Dot was home built in a back garden. The welds have not been ground off, and the plating is a patchwork. It is very rusty below the water line, I know, I have welted it with a chipping hammer. The windows need replacing or refurbishing and re-bedding at cost, as does the main hatch and doors, the front window, which is wooden, needs replacing too. The perspex skylight, designed to slide open, has been sealed with flashband.

 

There is no engine, no engine beds, no skin tank and no stern tube. No fuel tank, no battery box or battery. No rudder or tiller. A water tank and plumbing are absent, neither is there a bathroom, toilet no shower. There is no 12 volt nor sign of a proper 240 volt installation.  It has no gas locker or gas work fitted.

 

I have no idea if there is any insulation, and the lining looks in need of replacement.

 

Several locals have looked at it with a view to using it as an office or storage space, all have walked away. The boat is a home built rusty bucket, it will always be a home built boat with all its construction faults. As such, it would not be worth spending large sums of money to bring it up to modern boat standards.

 

It might suit someone who just needed to de-rust it, black it and put it back in the water. It would be agricultural living, and amount to camping in a tin shed.

 

Take heed of every warning written, this is not a project for the novice, and some skilled people have already looked.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Peanut
grammer gas

[Tam & Di]

1 hour ago, Mad Harold said:

I make £557- 23  every three months,£42- 86 per week.

Whoops - I calculated the day rate in error.  Too much 🍷

 

Tam

[Paul C]

Lets put it simply:

 

1. That boat is hopelessly unsuitable

2. A 50-60' project boat in a similar condition is unsuitable (but there is hope)

3. A 50-60', mainly complete and working, secondhand narrowboat is a FAR better bet, and is going to be cheaper in the long run

 

If you can't afford (3), by all means dream - I occasionally browse estate agent websites of 6m+ homes etc.

[Crewcut]

I think to succeed with any project boat you have to:

1 enjoy at least some aspects of the work/challenge & preferably already have some of the required skills

2 have the time available which means not working full time, preferably not having to work at all

3 have the money available to buy all the stuff to complete the project and to also buy food, pay bills, etc.

If your funds will do no more than buy the boat and you have to work to earn the money to buy the stuff you need for the boat that means you don't have the time to do the work therefore it's not viable. And if you have the money to buy the boat and complete the project it doesn't make sense to buy a project unless you really enjoy the work/challenge. So for the majority buying a project does not make sense...

[rooslootoo]

On 20/04/2023 at 10:48, BilgePump said:

If this boat didn't get an offer at £2k then those that have seen it previously must have been scared off by more than one thing. Why has someone with access to a (boat)yard, skills, materials, tools and cheap crane/transport not bought it? Probably because it would become a money pit, even with all those resources to hand.

 

It looks as though it has been a guest room kind of boat, quirky and cute, but never had an engine. It should be possible to fit an outboard bracket to the back, but the power needs talked of can only be supplied by a shoreline, genny or diesel lump engine to batteries, which will cost more than the boat to source and install along with shaft and prop. Outboards may do a few led lights and phone charger but they are useless at putting in the power that would be pulled by a fridge/freezer. A good outboard will not be cheap. Even secondhand at ten years old and more, a decent 20hp outboard is in the £1k-£2k range. Similarly a few hundred watts of solar wouldn't manage well. 

 

At best the hull will need attention to the rust and some welding prior to blacking but it may need major overplating, which again could easily cost a multiple of the initial cost.

 

It will need relining at least above the gunwales, once all the deck fittings, vents and windows have been made watertight. Decent lining ply is not cheap per sheet, and you will need maybe a dozen.

 

An electrical system, water and gas installation will have to be done using appropriate cables, pipes and fittings. What are gas pipes and leccy cables made of? Copper which is a bloomin' fortune. Calorifier, hot water heater, stove etc not cheap. Everything will need doing to BSS standards from the start to avoid wasting money.

 

Paint, varnish, fabric etc etc

 

Current storage cost is over £2k per year for a thirty foot boat. That would cover a licence and northern mooring for the same. However, the time and money required to get this boat to a stage where it could be put back in the water and used will be significant.  Say a year of hardstanding, and then it will require lifting to water or truck.

 

Not trying to put the OP off getting into boats but this type of project presents way too many pitfalls and large costs to be viable for most people including myself.

 

I would instead echo a previous suggestion that a small GRP cruiser, that can be enjoyed in the summer for weekends from day one would be better to start with, on the budget that is available.

 

Your not putting me off, I aske for all of you to be honest and tell me what you think and based on everything I have heard I am not buying the boat, I didn't wanna get screwed purchasing hence the reason I came here, I'm not saying you are experts but most or all of you have experience and I dont. I appreciate your help in showing me the correct decision, and thank you for your help....

Ok, thank you all again, I wish I wasn't an idiot but thankfully you helped me not follow through on my idiocy. I hope in the future you can help me again....

[BilgePump]

1 minute ago, rooslootoo said:

Your not putting me off, I aske for all of you to be honest and tell me what you think and based on everything I have heard I am not buying the boat, I didn't wanna get screwed purchasing hence the reason I came here, I'm not saying you are experts but most or all of you have experience and I dont. I appreciate your help in showing me the correct decision, and thank you for your help....

You're making the right decision. A suitable little GRP project boat should turn up that fits your budget, resources and skills, one that you can enjoy on the water whilst doing it up. Keep checking in here and ask away with any questions. PS: Welcome to the forum by the way.

[rooslootoo]

As BTC went down significantly, I saved my money and thx to you I saved my sanity.

Just now, BilgePump said:

You're making the right decision. A suitable little GRP project boat should turn up that fits your budget, resources and skills, one that you can enjoy on the water whilst doing it up. Keep checking in here and ask away with any questions. PS: Welcome to the forum by the way.

Well, thx for the upvote on my decision I had decided a few days ago but was hit with 10 more negative comments, a GRP Project is not for me as a canal boat is a dream and I shall wait and save perhaps I can make a better find and when I do I will ask all of you....

is there anyway I can set this thread as solved, please?

[LadyG]

The thread has run its course and will just die off 

 

[rooslootoo]

Just now, LadyG said:

The thread has run its course and will just die off 

 

Ok, so what are you grabbing in icon used to denote you in profile picture

[Tony Brooks]

41 minutes ago, rooslootoo said:

As BTC went down significantly, I saved my money and thx to you I saved my sanity.

Well, thx for the upvote on my decision I had decided a few days ago but was hit with 10 more negative comments, a GRP Project is not for me as a canal boat is a dream and I shall wait and save perhaps I can make a better find and when I do I will ask all of you....

is there anyway I can set this thread as solved, please?

 

There are GRP canal cruisers, but most are fairly elderly now so will need some sprucing up. I can't see the difference between the work needed to get your original boat into a fair shape and that needed for a GRP canal cruiser. In fact, I think there will be far less because if you choose correctly you won't be buying an engine, drive line, and paying to have the hull cut about to install it and fit a rudder. Please do not discount a GRP canal boat until you have viewed a few. In most cases GRP repairs are far more within the scope of a reasonable DIYer, than are steel hulls, and GRP canal cruisers are stronger than many think. Try to avoid outboard powered ones though, because of limited charging capacity.

[rooslootoo]

5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

There are GRP canal cruisers, but most are fairly elderly now so will need some sprucing up. I can't see the difference between the work needed to get your original boat into a fair shape and that needed for a GRP canal cruiser. In fact, I think there will be far less because if you choose correctly you won't be buying an engine, drive line, and paying to have the hull cut about to install it and fit a rudder. Please do not discount a GRP canal boat until you have viewed a few. In most cases GRP repairs are far more within the scope of a reasonable DIYer, than are steel hulls, and GRP canal cruisers are stronger than many think. Try to avoid outboard powered ones though, because of limited charging capacity.

I dont discount them I just think I should save and wait, had a look at some of them if there 30 feet and have everything I may be happy but I think I shall wait until I'm sure, again...

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, rooslootoo said:

I dont discount them I just think I should save and wait, had a look at some of them if there 30 feet and have everything I may be happy but I think I shall wait until I'm sure, again...

 

Good, just keep an open mind and bide your time.

[rooslootoo]

11 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

There are GRP canal cruisers, but most are fairly elderly now so will need some sprucing up. I can't see the difference between the work needed to get your original boat into a fair shape and that needed for a GRP canal cruiser. In fact, I think there will be far less because if you choose correctly you won't be buying an engine, drive line, and paying to have the hull cut about to install it and fit a rudder. Please do not discount a GRP canal boat until you have viewed a few. In most cases GRP repairs are far more within the scope of a reasonable DIYer, than are steel hulls, and GRP canal cruisers are stronger than many think. Try to avoid outboard powered ones though, because of limited charging capacity.

had a look at your website pretty cool

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

 

Good, just keep an open mind and bide your time.

Saving BTC for a while longer

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, rooslootoo said:

had a look at your website pretty cool

 

Thank you, but it, and my technical knowledge is getting a bit out of date now, but the basics are the same.

[rooslootoo]

Just now, Tony Brooks said:

 

Thank you, but it, and my technical knowledge is getting a bit out of date now, but the basics are the same.

Well if you need a computer built, repaired, updated I'm your man or I can point in right direction. If you need a stage built with trusses, lighting and cabling and security I can help there to used to be a Roadie