The Wind Lass Posted March 15, 2023 Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 I’m back for more good advice… my calorifier started leaking. It was obviously really old and likely had seen some freezes over the winter before I bought the boat. I hired someone to install a new one. Looks like they may have dropped it on install or at least scratched the outside. Will scratches be a problem? Also, they gave me one that was at least 30% larger than the old one, even though I said, like for like. Will this cause issues? Thanks for any friendly advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted March 15, 2023 Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 Scratches to the foam insulation? If so, then no problem. Bigger cauliflower means slightly longer to heat up, but potential for longer showers before they go cold. Otherwise, no issues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted March 15, 2023 Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 3 minutes ago, The Wind Lass said: I’m back for more good advice… my calorifier started leaking. It was obviously really old and likely had seen some freezes over the winter before I bought the boat. I hired someone to install a new one. Looks like they may have dropped it on install or at least scratched the outside. Will scratches be a problem? Also, they gave me one that was at least 30% larger than the old one, even though I said, like for like. Will this cause issues? Thanks for any friendly advice. 30% larger will take 30% longer to heat up. On the other hand you'll have 30% more hot water before it runs out. These could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your pattern of use. The scratch won't matter a jot. I suggest sucking it up and getting on with enjoying boating. Others will disagree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted March 15, 2023 Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 34 minutes ago, MtB said: 30% larger will take 30% longer to heat up. On the other hand you'll have 30% more hot water before it runs out. These could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on your pattern of use. The scratch won't matter a jot. I suggest sucking it up and getting on with enjoying boating. Others will disagree! But thats only true if you are starting from cold. If its a full time liveaboard and you are doing plenty of engine running/cruising/other heating then the calorifier might never get cold through, so, like batteries, you only need to put back in what you have taken out. It might take only a bit longer to heat back up but you have the advantage of having a bit more in reserve like for when you get really dirty and need a longer shower? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted March 15, 2023 Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 Just now, dmr said: But thats only true if you are starting from cold. If its a full time liveaboard and you are doing plenty of engine running/cruising/other heating then the calorifier might never get cold through, so, like batteries, you only need to put back in what you have taken out. It might take only a bit longer to heat back up but you have the advantage of having a bit more in reserve like for when you get really dirty and need a longer shower? Not entirely true where heat is concerned. If you drag a 30% larger caloriflower down to "too cold to shower in", it takes longer to warm up again than the smaller one. So if you happen to be one of them 13.99 day moorers, 400 yard CCers.... then what?! I submit that fewer CCers cruise about properly like what you do than peoples think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted March 15, 2023 Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 6 minutes ago, MtB said: Not entirely true where heat is concerned. If you drag a 30% larger caloriflower down to "too cold to shower in", it takes longer to warm up again than the smaller one. So if you happen to be one of them 13.99 day moorers, 400 yard CCers.... then what?! I submit that fewer CCers cruise about properly like what you do than peoples think! I dont know of any calorifier that is still hot after 13 days and will get hot enough for a shower in 15 minutes of engine running. (extra minutes for mooring and untying ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmr Posted March 15, 2023 Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 5 minutes ago, MtB said: Not entirely true where heat is concerned. If you drag a 30% larger caloriflower down to "too cold to shower in", it takes longer to warm up again than the smaller one. So if you happen to be one of them 13.99 day moorers, 400 yard CCers.... then what?! I submit that fewer CCers cruise about properly like what you do than peoples think! Yes but... The entire calorifier heats up from the coil at the bottom, cold water comes in at the bottom and hot water goes out the top, so after a shower its half full of hot water and half cold. By some miracle it can stay like this for a day or two. This must be because water is a bad conductor of heat, and the hot water on top prevents convection. The very last thing you want to do is move the boat and stir the water up. Its obvious that continuous moorers know this and this is the main reason why they don't move 😀. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Booth Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 9 hours ago, ditchcrawler said: I dont know of any calorifier that is still hot after 13 days and will get hot enough for a shower in 15 minutes of engine running. (extra minutes for mooring and untying ) Mine heats up after 15 minutes of engine running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackrose Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 12 hours ago, The Wind Lass said: I’m back for more good advice… my calorifier started leaking. It was obviously really old and likely had seen some freezes over the winter before I bought the boat. I hired someone to install a new one. Looks like they may have dropped it on install or at least scratched the outside. Will scratches be a problem? Also, they gave me one that was at least 30% larger than the old one, even though I said, like for like. Will this cause issues? Thanks for any friendly advice. Was the new calorifier fitted with an expansion vessel in the hot water system or was there already one there? If you have a non-return valve on the cold water feed pipe to the calorifier to prevent the cold pipe heating up then you really should have an expansion vessel fitted after the NRV. Otherwise you're relying on the calorifier's pressure relief valve to stop it from splitting. Over time all that thermal expansion and contraction will weaken the calorifier which is where a separate hot water expansion vessel comes in. It's basically an accumulator tank connected (Td off) between the NRV and the calorifier or even after the calorifier on the outlet side as it's effectively all part of the same pressure vessel. If you don't have an NRV fitted to the cold feed pipe to the calorifier then an expansion vessel is less critical because that pipe can accommodate the expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy D'arth Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 42 minutes ago, blackrose said: Was the new calorifier fitted with an expansion vessel in the hot water system or was there already one there? If you have a non-return valve on the cold water feed pipe to the calorifier to prevent the cold pipe heating up then you really should have an expansion vessel fitted after the NRV. Otherwise you're relying on the calorifier's pressure relief valve to stop it from splitting. Over time all that thermal expansion and contraction will weaken the calorifier which is where a separate hot water expansion vessel comes in. It's basically an accumulator tank connected (Td off) between the NRV and the calorifier or even after the calorifier on the outlet side as it's effectively all part of the same pressure vessel. If you don't have an NRV fitted to the cold feed pipe to the calorifier then an expansion vessel is less critical because that pipe can accommodate the expansion. Quite""" less critical because that pipe can accommodate the expansion. """" Its not the pipe that takes the expansion but the cold supply accumulator if there is one If there isn't then god help the calorifier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Booth Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 4 hours ago, blackrose said: Was the new calorifier fitted with an expansion vessel in the hot water system or was there already one there? If you have a non-return valve on the cold water feed pipe to the calorifier to prevent the cold pipe heating up then you really should have an expansion vessel fitted after the NRV. Otherwise you're relying on the calorifier's pressure relief valve to stop it from splitting. Over time all that thermal expansion and contraction will weaken the calorifier which is where a separate hot water expansion vessel comes in. It's basically an accumulator tank connected (Td off) between the NRV and the calorifier or even after the calorifier on the outlet side as it's effectively all part of the same pressure vessel. If you don't have an NRV fitted to the cold feed pipe to the calorifier then an expansion vessel is less critical because that pipe can accommodate the expansion. Or leave the hot water tap on (pump switched off) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wind Lass Posted March 18, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2023 On 16/03/2023 at 12:58, Laurie Booth said: Or leave the hot water tap on (pump switched off) This is a great idea, simple and effective 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted March 18, 2023 Report Share Posted March 18, 2023 1 hour ago, The Wind Lass said: This is a great idea, simple and effective The very best ideas are often obvious, but only after someone clever like Laurie had suggested them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted March 18, 2023 Report Share Posted March 18, 2023 So, when you are finished drawing hot water do you shut the tap off, go switch off the pump and come back and open the hot tap, or do you leave the hot water running while you go and switch off the pump. Then what happens if you want some cold water? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Tee Posted March 18, 2023 Report Share Posted March 18, 2023 After all that running about you'd need another shower............................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted March 18, 2023 Report Share Posted March 18, 2023 32 minutes ago, Mike Tee said: After all that running about you'd need another shower............................. Might be easier to fit an expansion vessel 😀 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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