Think I might be in trouble.

[IanD]

13 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

That’s fine for CRT use but If you buy the whole hose reel you may need to cut 1mm off it as The Thames prohibit the use of 30m or more hosepipes 🤣 

But the reel only has 25m of hose on it... 😉

56 minutes ago, Paul C said:

 

Its a slang/nickname for this: 

 

The proper term is "mooring hook" or "piling hook". For example: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314727755776?chn=ps&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1wqfbMsAzSgyNSDRF-0TE0g42&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=314727755776

 

ETA, there are 4 (main) ways to moor/things to tie onto: mooring pins, nappy pins, goat chains, rings/bollards. Having the equipment and ability to moor to any of those, ensures maximum flexibility of where to moor. For example, sometimes you can only get onto the end, so its mooring pin and nappy pin. Or a ring and pin. Some people prefer goat chains, I don't like them because they make noise thru the night where nappy pins (correctly done) don't.

Genuine question -- what's the point of the ring on some nappy pins?

[Rob-M]

19 minutes ago, IanD said:

Genuine question -- what's the point of the ring on some nappy pins

I have a length of rope spliced on it so I have a hook and rope I can drop in quickly when single handing and need to secure one end of the boat to stop it moving, mainly when it is very windy.

[Paul C]

58 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Do tell, what can be done to a nappy pin that can't be done to a goat chain, to stop them clanking from the draw of a passing boat?!

 

 

 

Its not something different but you can tighten the ropes (not super tight, but tight enough, on a canal) and it tends to stop the noises, where goat chain will still make some noise. Its probably because there's more pivot points on the chain, or that the nappy pin will jam into the armco where the chain won't jam.

 

Mind you we tend to moor late and depart early, not too many passing boats.

 

Or maybe its just that with goat chains, there is no need to tighten up the lines so they are left looser, then make noise because of this? Whereas a nappy pin needs to be reasonably tight to ensure it doesn't detach.

[haggis]

59 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Do tell, what can be done to a nappy pin that can't be done to a goat chain, to stop them clanking from the draw of a passing boat?!

 

 

Put the nappy pin behind a bolt in the Armco to stop it sliding along and tie your rope tight and you shouldn't get any clanking. I don't like goat chains as I have to get down on my hands and knees to get hold of the chain below the Armco. Then I have to get up again 😀

[Paul C]

If you are skilled, you can get a nappy pin in (by dangling it from a rope then getting it locked) without even stooping down at all.

[Rob-M]

8 minutes ago, haggis said:

Put the nappy pin behind a bolt in the Armco to stop it sliding along and tie your rope tight and you shouldn't get any clanking. I don't like goat chains as I have to get down on my hands and knees to get hold of the chain below the Armco. Then I have to get up again 😀

I have a long handled paint roller (without the roller on it) that I use to hook the chain so I don't have to kneel down and get wet, muddy or stung knees.

[IanD]

56 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

I have a length of rope spliced on it so I have a hook and rope I can drop in quickly when single handing and need to secure one end of the boat to stop it moving, mainly when it is very windy.

But why the ring -- surely you can do exactly the same through the D at the end of the pin?

[MtB]

23 minutes ago, haggis said:

Put the nappy pin behind a bolt in the Armco to stop it sliding along and tie your rope tight and you shouldn't get any clanking. 

 

Very amusing. When I moor up with either type I get the lines good and tight then a week later when I return, there will be a foot of free slack. Bolt or not!

 

 

 

 

23 minutes ago, haggis said:

I don't like goat chains as I have to get down on my hands and knees to get hold of the chain below the Armco. Then I have to get up again 😀

 

Agreed, I find this very annoying and awkward too. Especially when the grass is wet and 15" high. 

 

On the other hand I've never returned to the boat to find its been for a cruise all by itself in my absence. Unlike with nappy pins. Once the lines loosened up a bit after a few days, the local scrotes think its great fun to just lift them out. 

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by MtB

[Tony1]

24 minutes ago, haggis said:

Put the nappy pin behind a bolt in the Armco to stop it sliding along and tie your rope tight and you shouldn't get any clanking. I don't like goat chains as I have to get down on my hands and knees to get hold of the chain below the Armco. Then I have to get up again 😀

 

Using goat chains was the main reason I started wearing builder's trousers whenever I cruise.

When I started life as a canal sailor, I used to dress in the finest beige chinos. But if it got even slightly muddy, the knees of my best britches would be smeared with damp earth (or just mud), as soon as I kneeled to get the goat chain under and around the piling/armco. 

 

I'm sure I remember that one of the members here manufactured a cunning hook-like device that allows a goat chain to be passed under the piling whilst the operator remained in a standing position.

He hasn't yet been burned as a witch, but I believe the Inquisition are looking at the matter very strongly. 

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by Tony1

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

I'm sure I remember that one of the members here manufactured a cunning hook-like device that allows a goat chain to be passed under the piling whilst the operator remained in a standing position.

He hasn't yet been burned as a witch, but for the me jury is still out.

 

See Rob-M's post a few above.

 

[Tony1]

Just now, MtB said:

 

See Rob-M's post a few above.

 

 

The witch has confessed

 

[Rob-M]

7 minutes ago, IanD said:

But why the ring -- surely you can do exactly the same through the D at the end of the pin?

I reckon the ring changes the angle of pull slightly but never really thought about it that much.  I generally use goat chains to moor and just the one nappy pin for quick or temporary deployment.

1 minute ago, Tony1 said:

 

The witch has confessed

 

I copied it from someone else.

[MtB]

Here's a nice long-ish one on Screwfix:

 

 

 

Or a nicer but short one that I think accepts a broom handle in the end to make it as long as you like!

 

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/licktools-bamboo-roller-frame-4-/183vx

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsense-4-long-handled-mini-roller-set-3-piece-set/9863v#product_additional_details_container

[haggis]

14 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Very amusing. When I moor up with either type I get the lines good and tight then a week later when I return, there will be a foot of free slack. Bolt or not

 

Ah , we have never had to leave the boat all by itself apart from in a marina which might explain why we don't have this problem 😀

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, haggis said:

Ah , we have never had to leave the boat all by itself apart from in a marina which might explain why we don't have this problem 😀

 

Do you not find your lines slacker when you return to the boat than when you left it in the marina too? I usually did, when I had a marina mooring but the effect is much reduced.

 

It's one of those boating mysteries. ISTR Alan Fincher writing about the effect too, back in the day.

 

 

[Rob-M]

10 minutes ago, MtB said:

Here's a nice long-ish one on Screwfix:

 

 

 

Or a nicer but short one that I think accepts a broom handle in the end to make it as long as you like!

 

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/licktools-bamboo-roller-frame-4-/183vx

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsense-4-long-handled-mini-roller-set-3-piece-set/9863v#product_additional_details_container

I use one similar to the first picture.

[Tony1]

4 minutes ago, MtB said:

Here's a nice long-ish one on Screwfix:

 

 

 

 

I meant to get something like this when the original poster showed it ages ago, but as usual I forgot within five minutes. 

I imagine that a slightly more hooked end would be better for catching hold of the ring on the mooring chain, but that fix would be doable.

 

 

 

 

 

[haggis]

9 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Do you not find your lines slacker when you return to the boat than when you left it in the marina too? I usually did, when I had a marina mooring but the effect is much reduced.

Nope. When we go back to the boat the lines are exactly as we left them, even if it has been months between visits.

Maybe your ropes are more stretchy than ours  😀

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

Do you not find your lines slacker when you return to the boat than when you left it in the marina too? I usually did, when I had a marina mooring but the effect is much reduced.

 

It's one of those boating mysteries. ISTR Alan Fincher writing about the effect too, back in the day.

 

 

When you stand on the side of the boat and lean down to insert you hook or goat chains the boat will be heeling and hence will be a slightly greater distance between hook/chain and cleat.

 

When you (or several off you) get off the boat the boat will be sitting slightly higher in the water, this could make your hook/chains tighter or looser depending on how (angles) they are fixed.

 

I noticed this effect just last night.

We had dropped about 8 feet and I couldn't get the dog back on board so I used the 'dog ramp' across from the wall to the boat roof. As I left him standing on the end of the ramp, climbed down the ladder and stood onto the boat, the boat heeled and the ramp fell off the roof. Happily dog remained on the wall.

[haggis]

10 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

When you stand on the side of the boat and lean down to insert you hook or goat chains the boat will be heeling and hence will be a slightly greater distance between hook/chain and cleat.

 

 

I think on a canal boat you would be most unlikely standing on the gunwales while you inserted the nappy pin or goat chain. 🙂 

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, haggis said:

I think on a canal boat you would be most unlikely standing on the gunwales while you inserted the nappy pin or goat chain. 🙂 

 

Then I must be a bit unusual.

 

Tho' I'm not sure why you'd be stood on the gunwales, there is much more room at the stern and the bow well deck.

Attach the bow nappy pin.

Let the boat drop back

Attach the stern nappy pin

Pull both lines tight until the boat sits between the two with the lines at 30-45 degrees.

 

With our NBs I'd always be on the boat to drop the nappy pins behind the armco, even tying up to rings or bollards can be done whilst on the boat, the only time I'd get off the boat (unattached) would be if / when Pins were needed.

 

It's maybe a difference in the way you've been taught and the type of waters you use.

There are always currents and flow on Rivers (and of course on the sea) so you never leave your boat unattached. Once you are off the boat, even holding a line, if the boat 'starts to go' then there is nothing you can do to stop it.

Once you have the bow line attached (even loosely) the boat can go nowhere.

[Sea Dog]

21 minutes ago, haggis said:

I think on a canal boat you would be most unlikely standing on the gunwales while you inserted the nappy pin or goat chain. 🙂 

Not least because how would you be able to reach to get an appropriate angle on your head and stern lines? Without this, you'd spend your days shouting "slow down!" at every passing boat. 

[haggis]

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Then I must be a bit unusual.

 

Tho' I'm not sure why you'd be stood on the gunwales, there is much more room at the stern and the bow well deck.

Attach the bow nappy pin.

Let the boat drop back

Attach the stern nappy pin

Pull both lines tight until the boat sits between the two with the lines at 30-45 degrees.

 

With our NBs I'd always be on the boat to drop the nappy pins behind the armco, even tying up to rings or bollards can be done whilst on the boat, the only time I'd get off the boat (unattached) would be if / when Pins were needed.

 

It's maybe a difference in the way you've been taught and the type of waters you use.

There are always currents and flow on Rivers (and of course on the sea) so you never leave your boat unattached. Once you are off the boat, even holding a line, if the boat 'starts to go' then there is nothing you can do to stop it.

Once you have the bow line attached (even loosely) the boat can go nowhere.

You must have been luckier than me! Often/usually you have to fish around in the long grass to find the bolt in the Armco to put the pin/chain behind. But there again, you probably have much longer arms than me 🙂 . In all my years canal boating, I don't think I have seen many instances of the boat being moored without someone stepping off. Apart from an elderly lady I saw who deftly brought her cruiser stern in and dropped a mooring pin attached to a short rope behind the Armco to give her time to moor the boat properly. A method which suited her limited mobility admirably. 

Edited September 10, 2023 by haggis
added a bit

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, haggis said:

I am talking about canals as I don't know if you get much Armco on rivers. 

 

Yes I realis that, we have been on the canals for 40 years, only leaving about 3 years ago.

We have always has 2 or 3 boats at any one time (a mix of NB and sea going cruisers).

[Rob-M]

I always drop nappy pins or goat chains behind Armco whilst on the bank, I might throw the rope round a bollard from the boat but mostly I would secure the boat from the bank.   Can't think of many occasions where I haven't got off the boat with a line.