C&RT License Survey

[magnetman]

Thats an interesting idea. 

 

Charging the gongoozlers. 

 

People apparently pay to watch football which is nothing like as interesting as watching Boats. 

 

You're onto something here.

 

We could be rich ! 

[Arthur Marshall]

There are only two ways CRT can get money from boaters, licences to move about and fees for staying put. Expanding their towpath mooring empire would earn them a fortune. Insisting everyone except liveaboard constant cruisers had a mooring, then selling them one at a sensible rate would do the job.

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

Go on, provide the numbers to show this then... 😉

 

Blue signs and logo changes and parties and van wrapping and executive bonuses and whatever else you can conjure up probably add up to considerably less than 1% of CART expenditure -- and yes that's my estimate, but it's based on some realistic guesstimates of how much these might all actually cost not just "Huge, innit!!!".

 

Yes there's been a shortfall in canal funding and maintenance for a very long time, but both have got steadily worse since CART was set up in 2012, and the Tories have been in power since 2010 -- so they were responsible for the terms under which this happened, which were a triumph in wishful thinking on all sides, both government and CART management at the time... 😞

You  need to talk to CRT employees or Ex employees. Van's one van that my mate drove on lease, wrapped, then rewapped and then weeks before it was going off lease rewrapped again,  before being unwrapped and handed bsck! Wonder how many Van's that happened to?

Lock gates how often are they inspected? Once ever 10 years from date of manufacturing, I know the guy that does it he is the only one by the way. So locks leaking or knackered because of high usage 10 years, Tinsley flight hardly used 10 years  cost of water loss huge!

Tinsley pump failed, temp pump installed near Sheffield basin 200- 300 meter run, so the engineer installed a new pump in the old pump house and renewed all the pipes for a couple of miles cost? Millions apparently against moving it to its temporary location 200 yards from the canal.

The reason two of my friends don't work for CRT anymore is because they are boaters and couldn't cope with the waste and mismanagement of CRT, one had worked for them for years but couldn't do it anymore as it was impacting on his pleasure in boating.

You just want to make something political when it's not, it's down to crap management not managing its very small workforce! They have probably employed a couple more whilst I have done this post! Managers that is not workers

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, peterboat said:

You  need to talk to CRT employees or Ex employees. Van's one van that my mate drove on lease, wrapped, then rewapped and then weeks before it was going off lease rewrapped again,  before being unwrapped and handed bsck! Wonder how many Van's that happened to?

Lock gates how often are they inspected? Once ever 10 years from date of manufacturing, I know the guy that does it he is the only one by the way. So locks leaking or knackered because of high usage 10 years, Tinsley flight hardly used 10 years  cost of water loss huge!

Tinsley pump failed, temp pump installed near Sheffield basin 200- 300 meter run, so the engineer installed a new pump in the old pump house and renewed all the pipes for a couple of miles cost? Millions apparently against moving it to its temporary location 200 yards from the canal.

The reason two of my friends don't work for CRT anymore is because they are boaters and couldn't cope with the waste and mismanagement of CRT, one had worked for them for years but couldn't do it anymore as it was impacting on his pleasure in boating.

You just want to make something political when it's not, it's down to crap management not managing its very small workforce! They have probably employed a couple more whilst I have done this post! Managers that is not workers

So, as usual no actual numbers to back up your "Huge cost!!!" claim then. Why am I not surprised? 😉

[phillarrow]

It seems to me that for many/most people, their views are at least in some way biased due to their boating habits. I realise that a complete outsider's view might seem irrelevant, but it could also be argued that their viewpoint is likely to be the fairest and least biased. So...

 

As someone who is a complete outsider to this (still in the dream stage of getting a narrowboat!) but with the intention of one day being a genuine CCer, I think magnetman got the answer to this one quite a few pages ago:

Everyone pays the same licence fee, but everyone pays for moorings. The cost/value of those moorings being set by market value and based on services. Canalside moorings would be the cheapest, all singing and dancing residential moorings would be the most expensive.

 

Personally, it surprised me greatly to discover that canalside moorings are currently free. I'd happily pay for canalside moorings if/when the time comes that we own a narrowboat.

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

So, as usual no actual numbers to back up your "Huge cost!!!" claim then. Why am I not surprised? 😉

And why am I not surprised that you as always politicised rather than look at what's happening on the ground and talk to workers

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, peterboat said:

And why am I not surprised that you as always politicised rather than look at what's happening on the ground and talk to workers

It's not politics, it's actual facts about CART finances and who bears the responsibility for the mess they are in today.

 

You can deny the facts and try and divert attention away from them -- and where the blame lies -- all you want, but it won't change them.

Edited December 21, 2023 by IanD

[Midnight]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

It's not politics, it's actual facts about CART finances and who bears the responsibility for the mess they are in today.

Richard Parry!

[IanD]

Just now, Midnight said:

Richard Parry!

Pull the other one... 😉

[ditchcrawler]

11 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

  Expanding their towpath mooring empire would earn them a fortune.  

But they don't let all they have, there is one boat at Tuttle Hill and has been for years

 

[Midnight]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

Pull the other one... 😉

It's where the buck stops

[IanD]

9 minutes ago, Midnight said:

It's where the buck stops

The buck stops with the source of the funding for UK infrastructure, or lack of it. Richard Parry or anyone else can't maintain the canals without this. Sacking him might make some people happy, but whoever took over from him would have exactly the same problems for the same reasons.

 

It's the same problem as railways, or water/sewage, or the NHS, or social services -- the markets and the private sector can't solve problems where the cost is high and the requirement is to provide a service or pay for expensive infrastructure, not make a profit... 😞

Edited December 21, 2023 by IanD

[Jon57]

Just say crt we're given a bigger budget. Do you think they could keep the canals in a reasonable condition. Answers on a postcard. Me personally l think not. 😢

 

 

 

[Momac]

2 minutes ago, Jon57 said:

Just say crt we're given a bigger budget. Do you think they could keep the canals in a reasonable condition. Answers on a postcard. Me personally l think not. 😢

Given the theoretical opportunity of  placing the job of maintaining the canals elsewhere then what would you do?

 

[Jon57]

3 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Given the theoretical opportunity of  placing the job of maintaining the canals elsewhere then what would you do?

 

Outsourcing is OK in normal industries. But canals are different. The contractor's have CRT by the short and currlys between them. You get this job I get that job. 

[Riverdee]

How about have borough and county councils, through which a canal passes, increase the council tax paid by citizens each year by a small amount and allocate that additional revenue to the CRT. 

Just like council tax pays for 'potholes repairs etc.'  it should pay for canal related maintenance.

[Momac]

1 minute ago, Jon57 said:

Outsourcing is OK in normal industries. But canals are different. The contractor's have CRT by the short and currlys between them. You get this job I get that job. 

So less reliance on contractors .

Yes that would be good

But who would you give the job to if not C&RT?

[magnetman]

7 minutes ago, Riverdee said:

How about have borough and county councils, through which a canal passes, increase the council tax paid by citizens each year by a small amount and allocate that additional revenue to the CRT. 

Just like council tax pays for 'potholes repairs etc.'  it should pay for canal related maintenance.

Surely better to have local authorities running the towpath/canal interface and let them deal with housing problems, fly tipping and moorings management.

 

Towpaths are obsolete. Watch out or the cyclists will get them while everyone else is arguing about what to do with the land.

 

The towpath is not part of the canal any more. There are no horses.

 

Hundreds of miles of thin strips of land which are not required for activity of moving a Boat along a waterway.

 

Someone needs to sort this out.

 

 

[Jon57]

7 minutes ago, MartynG said:

So less reliance on contractors .

Yes that would be good

But who would you give the job to if not C&RT?

Ian possibly,he’s the fountain of all knowledge.

[Riverdee]

5 minutes ago, magnetman said:

Watch out or the cyclists will get them while everyone else is arguing about what to do with the land.

Maybe thats a good thing? Then perhaps the cyclists will start contributing?!

[magnetman]

More likely they will take control of the land over time and put the canal at risk by demanding more space for their highways.

 

I doubt a cyclist will ever in the history of the world give a penny to the CRT unless they are also a Boat owner.

 

[Riverdee]

7 minutes ago, magnetman said:

The towpath is not part of the canal any more.

CRT think it is, ask them for an inch and you'll have to pay 

[magnetman]

Yes it is part of the canal in the sense of land but it is not used for the process of moving boats along.

 

This is where the money is. If what you say " ask them for an inch and you'll have to pay  " applies everywhere then that great because the system needs funding.

 

Obviously in high demand areas a way is found to get the money but thus far it has not proved satisfactory or economically sensible to just demand payment for use of towpath land everywhere.

 

The fact that we have situations like the Ward case on the K&A is proof that the use of the land is a contested and contentious subject.

 

Ownership of the land is not contested. It belongs to the navigation authority but the use of it is contested because people are allowed to pile up possessions and use the land as a garden when it is nothing of the sort.

 

This will lead to negative outcomes.

 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

23 minutes ago, Riverdee said:

How about have borough and county councils, through which a canal passes, increase the council tax paid by citizens each year by a small amount and allocate that additional revenue to the CRT. 

Just like council tax pays for 'potholes repairs etc.'  it should pay for canal related maintenance.

sounds good to me,

the citizens on the bank have been getting away lightly,

for the amenities and facilities they get in return for their Council Tax it seems very cheap living,

15 minutes ago, magnetman said:

More likely they will take control of the land over time and put the canal at risk by demanding more space for their highways.

 

I doubt a cyclist will ever in the history of the world give a penny to the CRT unless they are also a Boat owner.

 

I used to regularly get cyclists to sign up and donate to CRT,

some were/are very generous,

their money needs tapping into

[magnetman]

Its terrible isn't it.

 

And they dare to wear away the towpaths with their feet !

 

I was very shocked by this initially and have considered pointing out that the only 'people' who pay for all of this are people with Boats.

 

Then I thought better of it.