Material used for walls/ceiling of a narrow boat

[Noviceboata]

Hi All.

Just wondering from this photo which materials are used for the white walls/ceiling for the interior of this narrowboat? it is Marine plywood attached to a stud wall which is painted white?

[Tony Brooks]

Without photos that show ant texture it could be hardboard, MDF, or ply. It might be OSB. Normally fixed to battens on the ceiling and walls. It could even be sheet material stuck over tongue and groove boarding.

[Noviceboata]

6 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Without photos that show ant texture it could be hardboard, MDF, or ply. It might be OSB. Normally fixed to battens on the ceiling and walls. It could even be sheet material stuck over tongue and groove boarding.

Thanks for that. Is there a standard thickness for the  hardboard, MDF, or ply that is used?

[Jen-in-Wellies]

3 minutes ago, Noviceboata said:

Thanks for that. Is there a standard thickness for the  hardboard, MDF, or ply that is used?

No. Look for rippling between battons to spot if the builder has gone too thin.

There are virtually no standards for narrowboats, aside from some safety related European ones that we still follow for newer ones. Mostly built by small scale producers and often fitted out internally by amateurs. All with varying degrees of experience, knowledge and skill.

[Tony Brooks]

Not only the above but it is also in what we tend to call "London White" which on an older boat can be a bit of a warning that all may not be well with whatever the decorative "skin" is covering. Too many buy up a near scrapper, tart it up at minimal cost, paint the inside a fashionable colour (that is fashionable in a new flat sense), and flog it to an unsuspecting new boater looking for accommodation.

[Higgs]

1 hour ago, Noviceboata said:

Thanks for that. Is there a standard thickness for the  hardboard, MDF, or ply that is used?

 

Most of my boat is 13/14mm tongue and groove pine, but in the areas I've reworked, 6mm ply on the ceiling, 9mm on the cabin sides above the gunnel, and 12mm below the gunnel. It depends on how substantial the support is. Bearing in mind the weight of the ply, lighter on ceilings and heavier against the upright side surfaces. The side surfaces may have to bear the weight of other fixtures. 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Higgs

[Chewbacka]

I used 10mm oak faced ply, with a single thickness the volume discount meant it was lower cost than using 3 or 4 different thicknesses.  Though this was a few years ago.

[Higgs]

21 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Not only the above but it is also in what we tend to call "London White" which on an older boat can be a bit of a warning that all may not be well with whatever the decorative "skin" is covering. Too many buy up a near scrapper, tart it up at minimal cost, paint the inside a fashionable colour (that is fashionable in a new flat sense), and flog it to an unsuspecting new boater looking for accommodation.

 

I don't like all that white. It's cold and does nothing to expand the visual perception of space and adds no interest to the layout. It might work well in warmer climates, but in the UK, some warm colours are needed. 

 

 

[alan_fincher]

Being pedantic, even if it is plywood, it is highly unlikely to be proper marine plywood.  Marine ply costs hugely more than the much more common exterior plywood, (or WBP plywood).  Marine is usually used for only outdoor situations like doors, hatches, and slides.

 

As has been said, it could instead be MDF, something I personally am far less keen on.

Thickness, again has been stated, also depends on the degree of support behind, and the longest span between fastenings.  On our last boat 9mm ply was used, but the current on uses 12mm.

Note that ply sold today in the bulk "sheds" like Wickes and B&Q is often not as advertised.  Ply I have bought as 12mm actually measures only 10.5mm.  Not a problem is its for new fitting out, but unhelpful f being used for changes in an old fit-out, as the surfaces between old an d new don't line up.

[Higgs]

MDF would be very low down on my choices. Marine ply will usual be full laminates, whereas the regular stuff can have cavities and filling. Most annoying when it's on an edge that is going to be visible. Annoying, if it's for a varnish finish. 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Higgs

[Noviceboata]

4 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

I used 10mm oak faced ply, with a single thickness the volume discount meant it was lower cost than using 3 or 4 different thicknesses.  Though this was a few years ago.

Thanks for that, very good point about the discount for bulk buying

[IanD]

6 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

I used 10mm oak faced ply, with a single thickness the volume discount meant it was lower cost than using 3 or 4 different thicknesses.  Though this was a few years ago.

 

10mm isn't common for standard ply, the thicknesses the logs are peeled to (normally 1.5mm nowadays) means that multiples of 3mm are most common (6/9/12/15/18...) -- the most common structure is an odd number of 1.5mm plies to form the core and a 0.75mm one on each side, this minimises warpage and also splintering when cutting/planing edges.

 

This gives an equal number of plies in length and width directions and the two outer ones in the same direction -- for 6mm the plies will be [0.75h+1.5v+1.5h+1.5v+0.75h], then each 3mm adds another pair of core plies.

 

If the ply is then faced/veneered a thin decorative skin (e.g. oak) is applied to each side afterwards, if these are 0.5mm thick this would give 10mm total (then 13, 16, 19...) as Chewbacka said... 😉

[alan_fincher]

52 minutes ago, IanD said:

If the ply is then faced/veneered a thin decorative skin (e.g. oak) is applied to each side afterwards, if these are 0.5mm thick this would give 10mm total (then 13, 16, 19...) as Chewbacka said... 😉

Not for any veneered plywood I have ever been involved in.  Whether ply taken down from a 1995 build boat, or new ply much more recently purchased from a wood yard, I have only ever been involved with ply tat has a decorative ply applied to one side only.

Where I have needed a veneer on both sides, I have had to glue 2 sheets back to back on the "non pretty" side.

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

Not for any veneered plywood I have ever been involved in.  Whether ply taken down from a 1995 build boat, or new ply much more recently purchased from a wood yard, I have only ever been involved with ply tat has a decorative ply applied to one side only.

Where I have needed a veneer on both sides, I have had to glue 2 sheets back to back on the "non pretty" side.

 

Proper high quality of marine ply like the expensive stuff Robbins sell has veneer on both faces (I used to know the proper name for it but I can't remember), but it may well have suitable hardwood plies all the way through and it costs an awful lot of money. Not something to use for lining out a narrowboat.

[IanD]

3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Proper high quality of marine ply like the expensive stuff Robbins sell has veneer on both faces (I used to know the proper name for it but I can't remember), but it may well have suitable hardwood plies all the way through and it costs an awful lot of money. Not something to use for lining out a narrowboat.

Usually has birch plies all the way through, still pretty expensive -- and impossible to get the good stuff nowadays anyway since it used to come from the Baltic i.e. Russia... 

[Tony Brooks]

7 hours ago, IanD said:

Usually has birch plies all the way through, still pretty expensive -- and impossible to get the good stuff nowadays anyway since it used to come from the Baltic i.e. Russia... 

 

Not what Robbins say on their website.:

 

Manufactured from selected Gaboon (Okoume) veneers throughout, it has an attractive close grained face which is perfect for varnishing and finishes well.

 

The first choice for many renowned boatbuilding craftsmen for its aesthetic qualities, Super Elite Plus is made from multi-laminate Sapele veneers for stability, and has extremely high quality rotary cut Sapele faces. It has a superb fine sanded face veneer face quality and is ideal for epoxy coating, clear finishing or painting.

 

 

[Higgs]

22 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Not what Robbins say on their website.:

 

Manufactured from selected Gaboon (Okoume) veneers throughout, it has an attractive close grained face which is perfect for varnishing and finishes well.

 

The first choice for many renowned boatbuilding craftsmen for its aesthetic qualities, Super Elite Plus is made from multi-laminate Sapele veneers for stability, and has extremely high quality rotary cut Sapele faces. It has a superb fine sanded face veneer face quality and is ideal for epoxy coating, clear finishing or painting.

 

 

 

If I wanted a good wood finish, I would be considering a varnish finish. For paint finishing, I don't think I'd waste money on a quality product best suited for varnishing or bought for a good veneer face. 

 

 

[IanD]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Not what Robbins say on their website.:

 

Manufactured from selected Gaboon (Okoume) veneers throughout, it has an attractive close grained face which is perfect for varnishing and finishes well.

 

The first choice for many renowned boatbuilding craftsmen for its aesthetic qualities, Super Elite Plus is made from multi-laminate Sapele veneers for stability, and has extremely high quality rotary cut Sapele faces. It has a superb fine sanded face veneer face quality and is ideal for epoxy coating, clear finishing or painting.

 

 

Wow, I wonder how much that costs given the mahoosive cost of birch ply?

[Tony Brooks]

22 minutes ago, IanD said:

Wow, I wonder how much that costs given the mahoosive cost of birch ply?

 

Their best stuff:

 

timber@robbins.co.uk www.robbins.co.uk
Sheet 1/2 Sht 1/4 Sht
2500 x 1220 x 1.5 mm Elite Marine (3 Ply) £76.55
2500 x 1220 x 3 mm Elite Marine (3 Ply) £69.85
2500 x 1220 x 4 mm Elite Marine (3 Ply) £72.05 £37.47 £19.47
2500 x 1220 x 5 mm Elite Marine (5 Ply) £95.05 £49.43 £25.65
2500 x 1220 x 6 mm Elite Marine (5 Ply) £105.23 £54.70 £28.40
2500 x 1220 x 8 mm Elite Marine (7 Ply) £110.75
2500 x 1220 x 9 mm Elite Marine (7 Ply) £116.23 £60.42 £31.37
2500 x 1220 x 12 mm Elite Marine (9 Ply) £143.28 £74.52 £38.69
2500 x 1220 x 15 mm Elite Marine (9 Ply) £169.65 £88.22 £45.82
2500 x 1220 x 18 mm Elite Marine (11 Ply) £195.55 £101.69 £52.79
2500 x 1220 x 22 mm Elite Marine (11 Ply) £246.00
2500 x 1220 x 25 mm Elite Marine (15 Ply) £276.80 £143.94 £74.74
3100 x 1530 x 5 mm Elite Marine (5 Ply) £162.33
3100 x 1530 x 6 mm Elite Marine (5 Ply) £179.78
Sheet 1/2 Sht 1/4 Sht
2500 x 1220 x 4 mm Super Elite+ Marine (3 Ply) £149.30 £77.64 £40.31
2500 x 1220 x 6 mm Super Elite+ Marine (5 Ply) £164.05 £85.31 £44.31
2500 x 1220 x 9 mm Super Elite+ Marine (5 Ply) £213.75 £111.15 £57.73
2500 x 1220 x 12 mm Super Elite+ Marine (9 Ply) £242.75 £126.23 £65.56
2500 x 1220 x 15 mm Super Elite+ Marine (11 Ply) £308.80 £160.58 £83.38
2500 x 1220 x 18 mm Super Elite+ Marine (11 Ply) £356.48 £185.38 £96.26
2500 x 1220 x 25 mm Super Elite+ Marine (15 Ply) £470.63 £244.74 £127.06

 

Prices are for full sheet, half sheet, quarter sheet.

 

As I said, probbably not for lining a typical narrowboat.

[ditchcrawler]

Back to the OPs question on the white walls, I understand Black Prince hire boats used some kind of vinyl wall covering, it feels slightly textured and softish.

[Slim]

15 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Proper high quality of marine ply like the expensive stuff Robbins sell has veneer on both faces (I used to know the proper name for it but I can't remember), but it may well have suitable hardwood plies all the way through and it costs an awful lot of money. Not something to use for lining out a narrowboat.

I was looking at the receipts for my 1990's lineout only last week . All the ply or blockboard was faced both sides. Some was graded A/A, some A/B dependant upon where it was to be used. Can't remember the exact prices but iirc 5  8x4 ,4mm A/B English oak faced ply was £124. 😭