Using the ladder in a lock

[blackrose]

This has come up time & time again and was discussed recently in a thread (about something else) that I can't find now.

 

I thought I'd bring it up again as a neighbour & friend of mine slipped off a ladder the other day and nearly drowned.

 

Although not vastly experienced with boats, he's a big strong bloke and was carrying a rope up the ladder when his feet slipped off and he couldn't hold on. Part of his mistake was to step onto the ladder from gunwhale height rather than from the coachroof where the ladder is less slippery. Since he'd already let his partner off the boat before entering the lock I told him that he should have thrown the rope to her before using the ladder to leave both hands free. It sounded sensible to me until he told me that had he not been holding onto the rope when he fell in, he wouldn't have got out.

 

I've never fallen into the water fully clothed (touch wood), and it might be worth practicing this somewhere safe with some other people around and a life ring handy, because my friend told me that you've no idea how your clothes weigh you down until it happens. He went right down to the bottom of the lock and said he could see the boat above him. He pulled himself out on the rope and he reckoned that without it he wouldn't have got out. Scary!

 

Anyway, I know that some contributors like John O have made repeated warnings about lock ladders and I'm now starting to agree. Unlike John I don't believe that ladders should never be used. However, I do now think that their use should be avoided where possible and if they are used it should be with extreme caution.

[wonderdust]

They are extremly slippy when wet, maybe when locks are looked at and maintained a coat of anti slip paint or something along those lines should be applied to the ladders by BW!

[Liam]

I can see where you're coming from, but it doesn't help when people strap their boats to them which eventually makes them very loose.

 

I've climbed up a few ladders before now and I remember the whole side of one ladder not being fixed at all to the recess in the lock wall.

[fender]

I dont like using ladders that much, sometimes I'm prone to roping the boat in and out of the locks but the issue then is that if its wet which is safer climbing a ladder or roping the boat in/out of the lock? Oft times I've thought that a ladder is safer in wet conditions especially if you have gloves on, one can get a better grip on the wet rungs when one wears gloves.

 

Stepping onto a ladder from the roof is a good alternative but what if the roof is wet? All sort of possibilities there and what if the lock side is wet or frosty and one slips trying to step onto the roof?

 

As I'm usually a single handed boater, the positioning of ladders sometimes leaves me wondering, for example on the Stort one has to remember which side the ladders are on these locks (usually a pair on the offside) for roping in and out is impossible as all the locks have large overbridges at the tail.

 

I've found Garston lock on the K&A a difficult one to use single handed, great care is needed if its wet conditions clambering all over the steel structure which I dont think is safe

 

On the Thames I think they need to review their requirements for boaters to use ropes at both ends, it causes me a lot of problems and even though I havethe technique perfected, I'd much prefer to use a centre rope in Thames locks, I've now seen two accidents this year in Thames locks due to the use of ropes at both ends, and this was with crewed boats

 

Off BW's territory the lock ladder at Bowers on the Wey is right next to the cill, which means that I can only climb out of this deep lock by prodding the boat's bows onto the cill and then very carefully stepping across the wide gap form the end of the bows onto the ladder.

 

When ladders were few and far between, if I couldnt get off the roof, then I used to climb the lock gates, at Eutruria I always managed to climb onto the cill and then climb up the top gate! I still climb (or descend) lock gates when absolutely neccessary - like earlier this year when going down Coxes lock, I'd had forgot the ladder was the other side, so I climbed down the gates onto the boat

[saltysplash]

Ive only had to use lock ladders when single handed, Very rarely use ropes when double crewed.

 

Like all wet things they are slippy but it really is all about being carefull and not rushing. With decent footware and making sure your feet are always full on the rung and not just your toe then all should be well. You rarely if ever slip with your hands its always the feet.

 

Every item of lock furniture should be treated respect when it comes to safety. If you do have to use ladders then maybe a life jacket would be advisable. The only reason they are frowned upon on the canals is because they are not yet widely seen. If more folk wore them they wouldnt be seen so much as an odity.

[Supermalc]

Now I know it's not that easy, but if you do happen to fall in off the ladder, well if you can see it, and get back to it, you may??? be able to climb out.

 

There was a topic recently about falling in, but the search won't work, and I can't find it.

[blackrose]

I spoke to the guy again today and asked him if he really thought he wouldn't have got without his rope. He told me that it wasn't like jumping into a swimming pool where you go down and then come up again. Instead he just went down and stayed on the bottom of the lock. He's adamant that he'll always be wearing a lifejacket when boating from now on. He said to me "If you want to get an idea of how heavy you are in the water fully clothed, take off that fleece jacket and dip it in to the canal, then try lifting it out."

 

It makes you think.

Edited November 10, 2007 by blackrose

[Supermalc]

Basically, if you fall in a lock in the winter, you will probably not get out, unless there is someone to throw you a rope down.

 

In the summer, when it is hot, you are wearing less, and the shock of cold water is slightly less.

 

I can't swim, but when I fell in I was holding onto the rope from boat to bank. It was still a struggle to get out, even with help.

 

Cold water is very dense, as I discovered when I tried to get my prop. I had dropped one of the spare ones I was taking back to the car. I had collected a few when I first got Wud, and had to change it. After several months, and only because the water cleared I found it. Brought Wud nearby, and with a rope in my hand, decended a ladder put on the keyside. I could not bend down to pick it up, the density of the water stopped me. It also stopped another man, who tried a little after me, and who is a good swimmer.

 

I got it out the next day, by making a long tined rake.

[John Orentas]

Never gone along with that tale about your clothes and wellies pulling you down in some way, take them all off and throw them in, they will probably float.. They will feel heavy in air but thats another matter.

 

I suspect I have replied to this topic every time it has come up.. Suffice to say that those ladders were put there for emergency use, anyone who climbs up and down them as a matter of routine is a fool.

[wonderdust]

Never gone along with that tale about your clothes and wellies pulling you down in some way, take them all off and throw them in, they will probably float.. They will feel heavy in air but thats another matter.

 

I suspect I have replied to this topic every time it has come up.. Suffice to say that those ladders were put there for emergency use, anyone who climbs up and down them as a matter of routine is a fool.

 

Might float on top for a while with no weight on them but what about when they are submerged with 13st inside them! As for wellies full of water i bet they sink!

Edited November 10, 2007 by wonderdust

[magnetman]

I slipped in the river once with an 85Ah lead acid battery in my hand. They do pull you down a bit but I let go of it and bobbed back to the surface quite quickly. Sorry off topic.

[blackrose]

Might float on top for a while with no weight on them but what about when they are submerged with 13st inside them!

 

Exactly, and once soaked they're heavy. They don't pull you down - your own weight does that, the wet clothes just prevent you coming back up.

Edited November 10, 2007 by blackrose

[magnetman]

I don't believe the bloke just sank to the bottom of the lock, he may have thought he wasn't coming back up but unless he had ingested a lot of water i reckon he would. Divers have to use weighted belts to stay under. I may be totally wrong, it has been known

[Supermalc]

Well, unless like John, who must be able to fly, I've still found climbing the ladder the safest way of getting out of the lock.

 

Climbing the gates, with few, and then slippery handholds is more dangerous in my opinion, and the only other way I can think of would be to tie a rope around a bollard first, and I don't see climbing a rope as safe as a ladder fixed into the side.

 

At Bardney, even mooring on the low side of the lock requires a climb up a vertical ladder.

 

At Bottom lock on the Kyme/Slea there are no ladders, and it is an extremely dicy operation to stand on the cabin roof, before making a leap to safely on the bank.

 

This is with the water high, and it drops around 8 feet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The most dangerous I've had was in Barrow deep lock on the way to Thurmaston. To save the long climb down the ladder to the boat I stepped onto the roof.......onto an unknown rotten patch. My foot went through and I almost fell in. On my own, almost in darkness I would most definately have drowned.

 

Sorry, but I'll take the ladder everytime.

 

And I've not even mentioned the locks on the Trent, with a 20ft climb if you have to manage without a keeper. I wouldn't fancy trying to leap up and grab hold of the edge from the roof of my rocking boat. And you cannot pull your boat into, as you have to tie the ropes to the sliders to be safe. This is to allow you to climb back down to the boat, as jumping onto the roof if the boat floated to the middle would be suicidal in the extreme.

[John Orentas]

Oh dear I think we will have to start invoking that Archimedes bloke again.

[scrumpylurcher]

Having watched a friend very nearly fall off a lock ladder earlier this year we tried to reduce the risk - in his case the soles of his shoes were virtually flat and without a pronounced heel. He had slipped through the ladder - more suitable shoes/ boots would have avoided this.

[Supermalc]

Oh dear I think we will have to start invoking that Archimedes bloke again.

 

Why, could Archimedes teach us to fly?

[John Orentas]

Malc.

 

The canals with their locks have been with us for 200 years, the ladders were installed 20 years ago.. How do you suppose people managed for those odd 180 years.

 

Is it just possible you could be doing something wrong.

Edited November 10, 2007 by John Orentas

[magnetman]

The archimedes principle says that if a person or any other inanimate object gets in a bath and the bath is too full the floor will get wet.The archimedes principle says that if a person or any other inanimate object gets in a bath and the bath is too full the floor will get wet.

[Supermalc]

The archimedes principle says that if a person or any other inanimate object gets in a bath and the bath is too full the floor will get wet.The archimedes principle says that if a person or any other inanimate object gets in a bath and the bath is too full the floor will get wet.

 

Sorry, you've lost me........twice

[John Orentas]

I heard him the first time.

[fender]

Malc.

 

The canals with their locks have been with us for 200 years, the ladders were installed 20 years ago.. How do you suppose people managed for those odd 180 years.

 

Is it just possible you could be doing something wrong.

 

no it isnt something wrong boats were crewed and often had lockwheelers and ladders wernt generally neccessary when the commercial boats had such well oiled procedures

 

AND ladders arent entirely new either I can think of a few locks, even 'dicey' locks that have had ladders in them for much more than a century

[blackrose]

I don't believe the bloke just sank to the bottom of the lock, he may have thought he wasn't coming back up but unless he had ingested a lot of water i reckon he would. Divers have to use weighted belts to stay under. I may be totally wrong, it has been known

 

Well I spoke to him and he did indeed sink as anyone would if they fell into deep water from any height. The difference was that the weight of his waterlogged clothes prevented him from rising again, or at least rising quickly enough to get his breath (his bouyancy would vary depending on how much air was air was in his lungs at the time). His fall was also seen by people on top of the lock. Divers use weightbelts, that's true - I use about 6kg, but this is in part used to counter the bouyancy of the air filled BCD and the tank.

Edited November 10, 2007 by blackrose

[Keeping Up]

Everyone has a slightly different technique for locking. Mine is to use the ladder to & from the roof, very carefully. In fact everything I do in or around the lock, I do very carefully.

 

I will continue to do it in the same way. I reckon I'm safer to stick with it than to try and change the way I do things and get confused (as you do as you get older!)

 

Allan

[Lady Muck]

My partner tells me the most important thing to remember is to check the ladder before you climb it, grab the handrail and give it a quick tug incase it's about to come away in your hand.