Does anyone know what this means?

[Biafreespirit]

 

The heating and hot watter stopped working since yesterday... (webasto) I just bought this boat few days ago. From what I have read the batterys might have some pros, or I just don't know how to use the  boat system. If anyone knows please helps 

The alarm led is flashing 

[Biafreespirit]

[TheBiscuits]

I'll bet your batteries are flat.

 

If you are on shorepower it's tripped, and if you are not then you haven't been charging your batteries enough.

 

If you are a new CC'er, when was your last 8 hour+ engine run at 1200 rpm?

[TheBiscuits]

13 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

If you are a new CC'er, when was your last 8 hour+ engine run at 1200 rpm?

 

That's not intended to be mean - if you are running unknown lead acid batteries on a new-to-you boat then it will need probably one of those a week, and either a 2-3 hour engine run or 2-3 hours on a generator every single day at this time of year.  If you have serious solar panels - 3 or 4, 5 foot by 3 foot size then by next week they might start to help ...

[Biafreespirit]

Thank you very much Thebiscuits. I have 2 small solar panels. I don't know about the batterys types but I'll find out tomorrow. I would like to invest in good big solar panels. If you can recommend anyting would be very appreciated. Should I change the invertor and batteries as well? I have a wash machine but I guess there is no chance it will work with what I have, I probably need a bigger inverter. I runneed the engine 2 days ago for like 3 hours of cruising and that's it. You are right the alarm led is flashing because the batteries was flat. 9.4. I know that 12.7 is fully charged and 12.2 volts is half. So what I need to do in order not to damage the batteris is I do need to run the engine for like 2 hours every day, or invest in good solar pannels/new batteries/ inverter right? I can't run the engine in the night because I don't want to disturb other people around. 

[TheBiscuits]

Read this thread carefully - it's the distilled wisdom of many many years of experienced boaters, some of whom are qualified electrical engineers.

 

https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/topic/95003-battery-charging-primer/

 

The most common mistake made by new boaters is killing their batteries in the first few weeks.  Serious congratulations to you if it only took 3 days! 

 

There are a few simple "rules of thumb" for liveaboard CC'er boats.

 

Get solar.  As much as your wallet and your roof space allows.  And the roof space is way more important than the wallet!  It's (mostly) useless between October and March, so have an alternate plan.

 

Run engine or generator (off the boat please, so you don't kill yourself) way more than you think is necessary from October to March.

 

If you can't or won't do this, you need to either get a mooring with mains electric hookup or get a trade account with a battery supplier ...

 

 

 

 

[TheBiscuits]

 

42 minutes ago, Biafreespirit said:

You are right the alarm led is flashing because the batteries was flat. 9.4.

 

If you don't fully charge them starting at 8am tomorrow, you will have to buy a full set of new batteries.  It might already be too late.

 

42 minutes ago, Biafreespirit said:

I can't run the engine in the night because I don't want to disturb other people around. 

 

Good for you that you get this.  8am to 8pm are the hours if you are in earshot of other boats/houses/tents/caravans - basically anyone you might disturb, and sound carries a very long way over water.

 

Post photos of your batteries, your solar panels, your appliances (electric kettle, fridge, washing machine, coffee maker, sunbed, computer, tv, cement mixer, whatever) and we might be able to help.  If you have broken your boat batteries, we might only be able to suggest suppliers! (Tayna, Alpha, Battery mega store)

 

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by TheBiscuits
Add a bit

[CanalRetentive]

Think of your batteries like you do with your car, you wouldn't leave the stereo on for 3 days straight and expect the car to start because the battery would be dead after half an hour of doing so. On your boat you just have more batteries and bigger batteries so the load and time you can run them for is extended but their ability is still noticeably finite.

 

The engine still needs to be run regularly to keep them charged. Even if your entire roof was covered with solar you would struggle to replenish the energy used from your batteries in winter unless you were very stingy with your electrical use.

 

Your batteries are clearly drained so I would advise running the engine asap and leaving it running till this evening to try and save them. They need charge and lots of it.

[MtB]

6 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Post photos of your batteries, your solar panels, your appliances (electric kettle, fridge, washing machine, coffee maker, sunbed, computer, tv, cement mixer, whatever) and we might be able to help.

 

I'd add to this list, photos of your alternator, engine and any other boxes with wires and pretty LEDs you can see anywhere.

 

But don't worry so much about your cement mixer. 

[Tony Brooks]

14 minutes ago, MtB said:

But don't worry so much about your cement mixer

 

There is much to find out abut that. If it has had its heater disconnected then there is a chance it will run from the inverter but if not or if you don't only use it on cold wash then the inverter might not be powerful enough for it, even if it did work the heater, if in use, would really discharge the batteries unless the engine was running at 1200rpm+ so the alternator provided the power.

 

The next "problem" is that some makes and models of washing machine refuse to work or work properly with, even quality, inverters  like yours so you may find that you need to pop into a marina to power it from a shoreline when you need to use it.

 

A steep learning curve this boating life!

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

There is much to find out abut that. If it has had its heater disconnected then there is a chance it will run from the inverter but if not or if you don't only use it on cold wash then the inverter might not be powerful enough for it, even if it did work the heater, if in use, would really discharge the batteries unless the engine was running at 1200rpm+ so the alternator provided the power.

 

The next "problem" is that some makes and models of washing machine refuse to work or work properly with, even quality, inverters  like yours so you may find that you need to pop into a marina to power it from a shoreline when you need to use it.

 

A steep learning curve this boating life!

 

 

I have to say, I am horribly concerned that the OP, given their previous thread about wanting to CC within reach of Ealing, might be CCing and working full time. So will spending little or no time on the boat at socially acceptable hours to be running the engine or generator.

 

When I had this exact problem I installed the Whispergen which I could run late into the evening without disturbing anyone, but Whispergens are rarer than the proverbial rocking horse dung so unlikely the OP's boat has one. 

 

I simply can't think of any other solution to this problem other than a £15K really well-cocooned on-board generator. Even then water-transmitted rumble might still draw complaints from neighbours. 

 

 

[Bee]

In grumpy mode today. Most boats are full of electrical stuff that needs to be in the skip. You need lights and radio, telly is to be used very sparingly and you need to be able to start the engine. Thats it and even lighting can be Aladdin mantle light. Inverters need to only be used for charging things like phones and preferably when the engine is running. There, thats the inconvenient truth. Now I'm going to prop my fence up. Grrrrr.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Bee

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

 

I have to say, I am horribly concerned that the OP, given their previous thread about wanting to CC within reach of Ealing, might be CCing and working full time. So will spending little or no time on the boat at socially acceptable hours to be running the engine or generator.

 

When I had this exact problem I installed the Whispergen which I could run late into the evening without disturbing anyone, but Whispergens are rarer than the proverbial rocking horse dung so unlikely the OP's boat has one. 

 

I simply can't think of any other solution to this problem other than a £15K really well-cocooned on-board generator. Even then water-transmitted rumble might still draw complaints from neighbours. 

 

 

 

I share your concerns but as long as we have the media telling all and sundry how cheap and easy it is the problems will continue. More and more people will overpay for wrecks and get ripped off. Not saying the OP has bought a wreck but many have.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Bee said:

In grumpy mode today. Most boats are full of electrical stuff that needs to be in the skip. You need lights and radio, telly is to be used very sparingly and you need to be able to start the engine. Thats it and even lighting can be Aladdin mantle light. Inverters need to only be used for charging things like phones and preferably when the engine is running. There, thats the inconvenient truth. Now I'm going to prop my fenve up. Grrrrr.

 

Seconded.

 

It all started with the BSS was introduced and gas fridges getting snagged for safety. This led to 12v fridges to become fashionable along with the massive 400ah battery banks necessary. Then with the 'big' battery bank people started fitting small inverters for 230Vac appliances and it all went downhill from there.  Grump grump too....

[Tony Brooks]

3 minutes ago, Bee said:

In grumpy mode today. Most boats are full of electrical stuff that needs to be in the skip. You need lights and radio, telly is to be used very sparingly and you need to be able to start the engine. Thats it and even lighting can be Aladdin mantle light. Inverters need to only be used for charging things like phones and preferably when the engine is running. There, thats the inconvenient truth. Now I'm going to prop my fence up. Grrrrr.

 

Whilst a bit over the top there is much truth in there. Even better use a car charger for phones and laptops. Certainly change all lights for LED bulbs (ones sold for marine use because 12V ones from the likes of Ebay may quickly die from voltage surges). On our many weeks of cruising we did not really have to ration the small 12V TV but then we  were cruising most days and I monitored the batteries and made sure they were recharged each day.

[MtB]

Whilst making a whole TONNE of assumptions, the solution for the OP (or anyone working full time and CCing in winter) might actually be a big fat bank of LFP batteries and a monster genny to charge them at the weekend. This relieves them of the need to charge for hours on end to get the LAs up to 100% once a week, and LFPs don't care about (like it, even) being kept part-charged most of the time. 

[mrsmelly]

To add to all the above. In my many years of living onboard over 8 different boats. I found that invariably when you buy a boat the batteries are knackered. My last two boats I simply noted how many batteries were on it and bought new batteries and fitted them immediately on picking the boat up. That way you know from day one the genuine state of batteries. Batteries are just like diesel, a consumable. 

[Tony Brooks]

13 minutes ago, MtB said:

Whilst making a whole TONNE of assumptions, the solution for the OP (or anyone working full time and CCing in winter) might actually be a big fat bank of LFP batteries and a monster genny to charge them at the weekend. This relieves them of the need to charge for hours on end to get the LAs up to 100% once a week, and LFPs don't care about (like it, even) being kept part-charged most of the time. 

 

Trouble is I doubt that would fit into the cheap accommodation mind set. I think that in many cases that would cost more than the boat that has been purchased.

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Trouble is I doubt that would fit into the cheap accommodation mind set. I think that in many cases that would cost more than the boat that has been purchased.

 

 

Although to be fair, that Victron in the photo cost the fat end of £1k and the washing machine looks new-ish, so probably not an 'end-of-life' colander bought for peanuts. 

[David Mack]

Hi Ms. Freespirit,

You have discovered what every off-grid boater discovers- mostly sooner rather than later - you don't have the endless supply of electricity that bricks-and-mortar dwellers (and boat dwellers with a shoreline) have. All the electricity you have available to you has to come from some combination of the boat's main engine, a generator or solar panels. Batteries store electricity, but they don't create it. Furthermore they are not that good at storing it. Not only do you get less out than you put in, but pushing it in isn't as easy or quick as you may think. The initial charging of discharged batteries is quite fast, but as the battery gets nearer fully charged, less and less goes in (which is why solar with relatively low output, but generating silently for hours a day is so good - in summer).  But if you don't fully charge your batteries regularly - typically once a week - they loose capacity and can soon become all but useless.

The other side of this coin is to try to minimise your use of electricity. High load appliances you wouldn't give a thought to using on land - electric kettle, hairdryer, microwave etc. will cane your batteries. That washing machine should only be used while your engine is running (via the inverter). That way most of the energy it uses will come straight from the engine, and the effect on the batteries will be less.

There's plenty more threads on here about managing your electrics - it's one of the main issues continuous cruising liveaboards struggle with, and you aren't the first to have flattened you batteries within days of moving aboard.

Good luck!

[George and Dragon]

4 hours ago, MtB said:

Whilst making a whole TONNE of assumptions, the solution for the OP (or anyone working full time and CCing in winter) might actually be a big fat bank of LFP batteries and a monster genny to charge them at the weekend. This relieves them of the need to charge for hours on end to get the LAs up to 100% once a week, and LFPs don't care about (like it, even) being kept part-charged most of the time. 

Almost certainly going to appear too costly for most - but once you start to factor in the cost of running the engine enough to keep your lead-acid battery bank in good condition the picture begins to change. 

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, George and Dragon said:

Almost certainly going to appear too costly for most - but once you start to factor in the cost of running the engine enough to keep your lead-acid battery bank in good condition the picture begins to change. 

 

Only if you have the initial capital to buy the system. If don't then diesel bought out of income is the only option even it it does cost more in the long run.

[George and Dragon]

I'm not even going to try to get into a discussion about the cost of borrowing.

 

If you're running the engine anyway for propulsion or another reason then you'll not save anything by converting to LFP.