Airbnb Insurance for boats

[PCSB]

1 minute ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

What it would cost isn't quite the same as what it is worth!

 

Didn't it sell/be offered for sale recently for about a quarter of it's build cost?

 

 

Currently up for sale for £125,000 ... 

[TheBiscuits]

Just now, PCSB said:

Currently up for sale for £125,000 ... 

 

Cheers.  I had £80k in mind, but that might have been a different boat.

[ditchcrawler]

10 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

What it would cost isn't quite the same as what it is worth!

 

Didn't it sell/be offered for sale recently for about a quarter of it's build cost?

 

 

But if it was a week old and got wrecked what would the insurance company say its worth.?

 

[IanD]

2 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

It's not like anyone is daft enough to stick a quarter of a million quid's worth of boat in a muddy ditch though, so I can't see it being a problem ... 

 

One narrowboat that was recently reviewed (Grua series hybrid, from Finesse) is said to have cost more than £300k -- and it doesn't even have any solar panels...

Edited February 6, 2022 by IanD

[TheBiscuits]

8 minutes ago, IanD said:

One narrowboat that was recently reviewed (Gru series hybrid, from Finesse) is said to have cost more than £300k -- and it doesn't even have any solar panels...

 

That seems a very odd omission on a hybrid!  Maybe they ran out of funds!

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by TheBiscuits
spellink

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

It's not like anyone is daft enough to stick a quarter of a million quid's worth of boat in a muddy ditch though, so I can't see it being a problem ... 

 

 

Yes, it is necessary to understand that where a commercial skipper's policy explicitly covers the boat being skippered it is still a form of public liability insurance and not a direct equivalent of the owner's own policy. It obviously can't be that because you can't insure for the loss of something you don't own. It is cover against a claim for damages from the owner. It's up to the owner to decide if the skipper has sufficient explicit cover and if it doesn't fully cover for total hull loss whether it is sufficient for their appetite for risk having weighed up the likelihood and consequence of what might happen.

 

There is one commercial skipper policy available online. It's not particularly appropriate for canals and when you look at the associated terms you find that despite covering for £10m of public liability the vessel being skippered is specifically excluded from the cover.

[IanD]

12 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

That seems a very odd omission on a hybrid!  Maybe they ran out of funds!

 

 

No, they'd covered the roof (of Gra, not Gru -- no minions involved...) with so many pigeon boxes and cross beams and other frippery that there wasn't enough space to get enough panels in (about 500W?) to be worth it, it was estimated they would only reduce genny running time by about 15m a day...

 

Hopefully mine won't cost that much (far less frippery!) but it will have 2kW of solar... 😉

Edited February 6, 2022 by IanD

[TheBiscuits]

22 minutes ago, IanD said:

so many pigeon boxes and cross beams and other frippery that there wasn't enough space to get enough panels in (about 500W?) to be worth it

 

That's two 5' x 3’ panels.  If I can fit them on a 30' roof with all my other junk they should easily be able to fit lots more on a cabin nearly twice as long.  It sounds like an excuse from a buyer who doesn't like the look of them to me.

 

Is this going to be another electric boat that cruises silently all day then moors up and runs the generator for hours?

 

[David Mack]

29 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

There is one commercial skipper policy available online. It's not particularly appropriate for canals and when you look at the associated terms you find that despite covering for £10m of public liability the vessel being skippered is specifically excluded from the cover.

 

So is the assumption that the owners insurance will cover the liability? And does the average owner policy, such as that quoted by AdE above, allow an extension on request (possibly at extra cost) to cover the use of a boat mover for a specific trip?

Edited February 6, 2022 by David Mack

[IanD]

24 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

That's two 5' x 3’ panels.  If I can fit them on a 30' roof with all my other junk they should easily be able to fit lots more on a cabin nearly twice as long.  It sounds like an excuse from a buyer who doesn't like the look of them to me.

 

Is this going to be another electric boat that cruises silently all day then moors up and runs the generator for hours?

 

See photo...

 

After reading the bit in the article about only saving 15m of running time per day, the lack of panel space was what Ricky told me was the reason for this -- and yes, maybe the owner just didn't want them either...

Edited February 6, 2022 by IanD

[TheBiscuits]

34 minutes ago, IanD said:

See photo...

 

I looked at it before replying.  There's room for over a kilowatt on there.

 

Not with the very cheapest panels admittedly, but on a £300k+ build the extra hundred quid a panel isn't even a rounding error.

[TheBiscuits]

38 minutes ago, IanD said:

After reading the bit in the article about only saving 15m of running time per day

 

I'm not utterly convinced by this either.  Not having seen the article I can only speculate, but from your previously quoted power usage figures a full day of summer sunshine should contribute quite a bit more than that, or at least reduce battery drain.

 

What are your assumptions for a 2kw array for "normal" cruising? 

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

 

So is the assumption that the owners insurance will cover the liability? And does the average owner policy, such as that quoted by AdE above, allow an extension on request (possibly at extra cost) to cover the use of a boat mover for a specific trip?

 

I don't know. That particular policy is simply clear that it doesn't cover the boat being skippered. Hence I moved on and found an insurer with a policy that did.

 

The same insurer - Pantaenius - does offer a policy that extends a leisure policy to cover an unpaid skipper. I think that's intended for use by the owner's friends and family and it is explicit in that it isn't a commercial skipper policy.

 

Their policies aren't particularly competitive for narrowboats in any case, as they have two price bandings delineated at 17m.

[David Mack]

All of the leisure boat policies I have had have included use by the owners friends and family, even with the owner not present, providing the owner has given consent, and providing that no money is changing hands. They just exclude cover when the boat is under the control of boatyards and similar professionals.

[IanD]

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

I'm not utterly convinced by this either.  Not having seen the article I can only speculate, but from your previously quoted power usage figures a full day of summer sunshine should contribute quite a bit more than that, or at least reduce battery drain.

 

What are your assumptions for a 2kw array for "normal" cruising? 

A 2kWp array will typically give about 7kWh/day in summer. A 9kVa generator via a Quattro 48/10000 will charge the batteries at 140A which is 7kW. So a 2kWp array saves about 1hr/day of generator running in summer.

Edited February 6, 2022 by IanD

[IanD]

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

I looked at it before replying.  There's room for over a kilowatt on there.

 

Not with the very cheapest panels admittedly, but on a £300k+ build the extra hundred quid a panel isn't even a rounding error.

I'm just passing on what I was told about how many panels could be fitted in, given the other hardware on the roof, and that this was the reason for the "15 mins" quote in the article -- I know Ricky was annoyed that this made it in but the reason why didn't, because it implies that solar panels are a waste of time. The issue is not just the area, it's how the space fits with the panel sizes that Finesse use, and exactly where the hardware on the roof is.

 

Given the look of the boat, I also suspect that the owner might be more concerned about appearance than practicality, and didn't want a load of solar panels spoiling the "traditional" look of his boat... 😉

Edited February 6, 2022 by IanD

[TheBiscuits]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

A 2kWp array will typically give about 7kWh/day in summer. A generator via a Quattro 48/10000 will charge the batteries at 140A which is 7kW. So a 2kWp array saves about 1hr/day of generator running in summer.

 

Cheers.  I knew you'd just know the figures. 

 

Does that suggest the solar can give you around 2 hours drive at narrow canal usage, so probably 3 hours cruising including locks and moored boats?  Obviously that doesn't leave much for the domestic use.

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

I'm just passing on what I was told about how many panels could be fitted in, given the other hardware on the roof, and that this was the reason for the "15 mins" quote in the article

 

I'm not arguing with you, I'm just saying that I'd add a lot of solar to that roof, even with the restrictions caused by the design.

 

I think you have the right idea for yours - the correct amount of solar for a boat is a roof full!  Obviously this needs enough battery storage onboard, but that really should never be an issue for an electric drive boat.

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Cheers.  I knew you'd just know the figures. 

 

Does that suggest the solar can give you around 2 hours drive at narrow canal usage, so probably 3 hours cruising including locks and moored boats?  Obviously that doesn't leave much for the domestic use.

Yes. I estimated typical propulsion use of 14kWh for an 8 hour cruising day, plus domestic use. So if you want to cruise every day you'll need to run the generator, but could go a couple of days without if you run the batteries (35kWh) right down.

 

To rely on solar only, you can only cruise for 2 or 3 full days per week.

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

I'm not arguing with you, I'm just saying that I'd add a lot of solar to that roof, even with the restrictions caused by the design.

 

I think you have the right idea for yours - the correct amount of solar for a boat is a roof full!  Obviously this needs enough battery storage onboard, but that really should never be an issue for an electric drive boat.

Finesse uses blocks of 4 series 160W semi-flexible panels (full width of roof x 2.7m long), I can get three blocks of these on allowing for gaps for things like centre line/aerials/roof vents. Battery bank is 35kWh... (51V 700Ah LFP)

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, IanD said:

Battery bank is 35kWh... (51V 700Ah LFP)

 

That cheap red key isolator is gonna melt ...

 

[miragev]

hi  david

did you manage too find suitbale insurance i'm currently look for the same without much luck ..

[Alan de Enfield]

29 minutes ago, miragev said:

hi  david

did you manage too find suitbale insurance i'm currently look for the same without much luck ..

 

It's not just insurance - once you start taking money it becomes a commercial operation and you need to have a Commercial Boat Licence, a Commercial Safety certificate (much more involved than a leisure certificate) and a landlords gas and electricity certificates.

 

Have you investigated EVERYTHING you need and the likely costs ?

[Graham Davis]

50 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

It's not just insurance - once you start taking money it becomes a commercial operation and you need to have a Commercial Boat Licence, a Commercial Safety certificate (much more involved than a leisure certificate) and a landlords gas and electricity certificates.

 

Have you investigated EVERYTHING you need and the likely costs ?

Of course not!
Who's got the popcorn?

[MtB]

1 hour ago, miragev said:

hi  david

did you manage too find suitbale insurance i'm currently look for the same without much luck ..

 

Are you aware you'll need a different type of CRT license for this too? You'll need a "Static Letting License".

 

More here:

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/32539-canal-and-river-trust-introduces-new-licence-for-boat-renting.pdf