Blacking & Painting final topcoat at the same time

[jetzi]

I have an ambitious plan to cut costs... I'm painting my boat on the towpath, but the main issue that I am encountering is bugs and such landing on my paint. I'm doing it in panels over a fairly long period of time. It's a solid colour.

 

I'm thinking that it might be wise to paint the final topcoat (or two) in one go, to make sure the joins are not visible and the colour is consistent, and I'm thinking of hiriing a covered dock to do this in to save on bugs.

 

The boat also is pretty much due for a blacking, so I figure, two birds one stone?? My aim is to get a "best effort" DIY job as I don't have the money to have the painting professionally done (never mind the fact that all painters are booked out as far as the eye can see).

 

I realise this would be a week of pretty full on work for my 65' narrowboat.

 

The main issue that I can see is that when blacking you want a wide dock with no water in it, and when painting you want a narrow dock. But I thought maybe I could get around this somehow with boards.

 

Is blacking and painting at the same time something that people do? Can anyone recommend a well-priced dock? I'm in the Manchester area but can travel. Time frame - probably once the weather is warmer next year but if I'm lucky a cheeky slot before winter would be nice. Or failing that a heated dock.

[Machpoint005]

I see no reason why you cannot do both in a dry dock. That's what happened to our boat when it was done professionally. You access tha cabin sides by ladder (or 2 ladders and a scaffold board).

 

[David Mack]

When we have docked Fulbourne at Aylesbury we have accomplished the following in a week:

Pressure wash and wire brush hull sides and bottom.

Hull survey

Remedial welding

3 coats blacking to hull sides and bottom

Repainting bow and stern flashes

Extensive touching up of cabin paintwork

Miscellaneous other repairs.

 

But note that:

We are mob handed, with at least 2-3 people, (and sometimes 5-6) working throughout the period.

We have a back cabin and engine room only, not a full length cabin.

 

Priority has always been to get the hull works completed, and I don't think we've ever done a complete cabin repaint in the dry dock.

 

Work on the cabin and upper parts of the hull has to be done from platforms and ladders.

 

The Aylesbury dock is indoors and heated so can be used at any time of year.

http://aylesburycanal.org.uk/our-services/slipway-dry-dock/

 

Aylesbury also has an indoor wet dock if you are only painting the uppers.

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by David Mack

[jetzi]

Thanks Machpoint. I'm leaning towards the CaRT docks at Wigan or Ellesmere, they seem well priced. But I think Wigan doesn't have walls so probably not ideal for the topcoat, and Ellesmere doesn't have availability until December but I don't think it's heated. So would have to book a week in May which looks about 405 quid. I suppose that's reasonable but more than I imagined having to spend.

 

@David Mack any rough idea of the cost of a week at Aylesbury? Unless I'm looking in the wrong place their site gives a 404 at http://aylesburycanal.org.uk/our-services/slipway-dry-dock/

 

Yeah, I absolutely appreciate it's a lot of work for a week. I might be able to get some mates to pitch in, and I'd be open to doing 2 weeks if it's affordable. But I have a pretty good handle of how long the painting will take now that I've done most of it DIY on the towpath, and a really large part of it is just waiting for it to dry.

The schedule I had in mind was:

 

Day 1: out the water and pressure wash, maybe a bit of griding or wire wheel prep of the hull.

Day 2: blacking coat 1.

Day 3. cabin top coat 1.

Day 4: blacking coat 2.

Day 5: cabin top coat 2.

Day 6: blacking coat 3.

Day 7: out comes the boat.

 

I would definitely be pretty sore at the end of that!!

[matty40s]

I had a dry dock for 9 days. 70 foot boat, and concentrated on the cabin sides and hand rails, 3 colours, front and back ends.

Windows out, single coat of Comastic to hull, single coat of paint to roof. I did 12 to 15 hour days. I had full access to all tools and paint boats for a living. I was fookedy by the end of it.

[alias]

4 minutes ago, jetzi said:

any rough idea of the cost of a week at Aylesbury? Unless I'm looking in the wrong place their site gives a 404 at http://aylesburycanal.org.uk/our-services/slipway-dry-dock/

 

It's visible for me. £200 for taking in and out plus first day, then £50/day for the remainder of the week, plus metered electicity.

[David Mack]

2 minutes ago, jetzi said:

 

@David Mack any rough idea of the cost of a week at Aylesbury? Unless I'm looking in the wrong place their site gives a 404 at http://aylesburycanal.org.uk/our-services/slipway-dry-dock/

 

Link works for me. Cost is £200 for in/out including first day, then £50 per day for the first week and £70 per day thereafter. Includes use of pressure washer and access platforms. Electricity and heating metered extra.

[jetzi]

9 minutes ago, matty40s said:

I had a dry dock for 9 days. 70 foot boat, and concentrated on the cabin sides and hand rails, 3 colours, front and back ends.

Windows out, single coat of Comastic to hull, single coat of paint to roof. I did 12 to 15 hour days. I had full access to all tools and paint boats for a living. I was fookedy by the end of it.

 

I can't help but feel as a professional you're holding yourself to a higher standard than I would be! I have painted most of the boat on the towpath and adding up the panels I can slap one full cabin coat on in about 10 hours, so I reckon that's feasible in a day. Maybe I'm underestimating how fatigue would set in though, and also maybe the details (hand rails and such) could really add up. Then perhaps I only have time for 1 topcoat in the dock - which is fine too, it's really just to get the finish nicer than a towpath finish.

 

I've only had the blacking done professionally and they definitely didn't take 10 hours to do a coat. Closer to 2-3 hours. So I feel that I'd be able to do a day per coat of blacking.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2021 by jetzi

[David Mack]

11 minutes ago, jetzi said:

The schedule I had in mind was:

 

Day 1: out the water and pressure wash, maybe a bit of griding or wire wheel prep of the hull.

Day 2: blacking coat 1.

Day 3. cabin top coat 1.

Day 4: blacking coat 2.

Day 5: cabin top coat 2.

Day 6: blacking coat 3.

Day 7: out comes the boat.

You should really give the blacking 48 hours to dry before going back in the water, so I would rejig that timetable to pull the blacking forward (or at least that below the waterline), and push the cabin painting back.

[jetzi]

6 minutes ago, alias said:

 

It's visible for me. £200 for taking in and out plus first day, then £50/day for the remainder of the week, plus metered electicity.

 

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

 

Link works for me. Cost is £200 for in/out including first day, then £50 per day for the first week and £70 per day thereafter. Includes use of pressure washer and access platforms. Electricity and heating metered extra.

 

Aylesbury does come highly recomended and I haven't been down that arm, but it is a fair distance from where I am. I think since it's 500 for the week it might not be worth the distance. I like that the pressure washer and platforms are included though, that's very helpful.

[dmr]

You have pointed out the disadvantages, poor access to the cabin sides so you will be likely working from a temporary platform of some sort, with a risk of falling, and the need to keep moving it just when you need to be putting the paint on quickly.

 

Pay a bit extra and rent a paint shed /wet dock to do the cabin sides. I think Canal Cruising at Stone charged £30/day last time I used theirs, but that was several years ago.

[jetzi]

7 minutes ago, dmr said:

You have pointed out the disadvantages, poor access to the cabin sides so you will be likely working from a temporary platform of some sort, with a risk of falling, and the need to keep moving it just when you need to be putting the paint on quickly.

 

Pay a bit extra and rent a paint shed /wet dock to do the cabin sides. I think Canal Cruising at Stone charged £30/day last time I used theirs, but that was several years ago.

Yeah, I think you're probably right. It's a tough job why make it so hard for the sake of a few quid.

If I'm just doing two topcoats then perhaps I could just hire a wet dock for two separate days, a few days apart to let the coats harden and my muscles to recover. I imagine with a wet dock there needn't be any cost for in/out since they don't need to drain the dock? Or does that sort of logic not work with these costs 😂

[dmr]

21 minutes ago, jetzi said:

Yeah, I think you're probably right. It's a tough job why make it so hard for the sake of a few quid.

If I'm just doing two topcoats then perhaps I could just hire a wet dock for two separate days, a few days apart to let the coats harden and my muscles to recover. I imagine with a wet dock there needn't be any cost for in/out since they don't need to drain the dock? Or does that sort of logic not work with these costs 😂

 

You need to phone a few and ask, there might well be a "minimum order" or otherwise they might make some sort of in and out charge. At Stone they have to move all the hire boats out of the way so would likely not want to do that for just a single day. If anybody is involved with getting you in and out then it will use an hour of their time and most places charge £60/hour for their time so a single day booking is not a good earner for them.

[BEngo]

Most dockings start about 9am, later if there is a boat coming out.  By the time you get organised, put boat into wet dock, properly tie up so it does not wander while you are painting,  wait for dock to warm up/cool down, get qàpaint out, stirred,  cabin sides cleaned and panel wiped etc. etc.. it will be getting a bit late for starting a 10 hour painting session.

Even if you hack that, the following morning the paint will be only just set and prone to real damage while you are undocking.

For two topcoats on ready sanded cabin sides you really need at least 4 days. Otherwise you risk wasting your money.

 

N

[haggis]

You could try Northwich Dry Dock on the Weaver. They have a big dry dock which can take two narrow boats side by side and it is the cleanest driest dock I have ever seen. You are in from Saturday to Saturday

[Richard10002]

Why limit yourself to the time allowed by a dry dock?

 

Why not just get taken out of the water and put on the hard. If Hesfords, (Bridgewater Canal at Agden), have space, they allow up to 3 weeks. Build a reasonable trestle and it's not too difficult to paint the topsides. Aqueduct Marina seem to have this kind of service, and I'm sure there will be others.

[jetzi]

20 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

Why limit yourself to the time allowed by a dry dock?

 

Why not just get taken out of the water and put on the hard. If Hesfords, (Bridgewater Canal at Agden), have space, they allow up to 3 weeks. Build a reasonable trestle and it's not too difficult to paint the topsides. Aqueduct Marina seem to have this kind of service, and I'm sure there will be others.

 

If I'm going to be on hard standing outside, mightn't I just as well paint on the towpath which is free and has no hassle (excepting having to wind to get to the other side!), right? I'm painting the boat in stages on the towpath and it's going reasonably well if quite slow due to the rain. But I think what would make a massive difference to the finish is if I could do the very last topcoat under cover to avoid bugs/rain/suboptimal temperature fluctuations, and to do the last coat all at once to avoid any joins or drips. Obviously I need to get out to do the blacking part, and I was just thinking to myself, since dry docks are usually under cover, maybe I could squeeze in a topcoat or two at the same time.

[Richard10002]

5 minutes ago, jetzi said:

 

If I'm going to be on hard standing outside, mightn't I just as well paint on the towpath which is free and has no hassle

 

You are, of course, correct. Having said that, when I have painted at Hesfords, I havent been troubled by insects and floating stuff, whereas I have on the towpath.

 

As a matter of interest, Hesfords have undercover paint sheds, and maybe there are other places that have similar. I've seen Cruising The Cut painting his boat in a big shed undercover, although that would have been a long way from here, (Manchester).