Pump motor repairs

[Midnight]

I have a Jabsco pump motor which refuses to start unless I rotate the shaft. I'm cruising on the Leicester Grand Union heading for the Nene. Does anyone know of a electric motor repair shop close the the canal?

Edited May 23, 2021 by Midnight

[Tracy D'arth]

Could be the start winding burnt open, or hopefully just a duff capacitor ( the can on top )  There may be a centrifugal start switch under the rear end frame that is not making contact when the motor is stopped. All depends on exactly what type of motor it is, capacitor start, or capacitor run.

[Midnight]

8 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Could be the start winding burnt open, or hopefully just a duff capacitor ( the can on top )  There may be a centrifugal start switch under the rear end frame that is not making contact when the motor is stopped. All depends on exactly what type of motor it is, capacitor start, or capacitor run.

 

I dismantled it and there's no sign of overheating or burnt windings (I have had past issues with another identical motor and didn't find the supplier particularly customer friendly). I suspect this one is as you suggest the capacitor or maybe the circuit board. I see the supplier don't fit these on the  1 1/2" pumps anymore so suspect they are not fit for purpose. Although this one is 6 years old it's done less than 2 hours work.

[Tony Brooks]

That looks like an AC motor to me and I think the above answers take that as read. Seems an odd thing t have on an inland boat.

[Ex Brummie]

For what they cost. replace the capacitor before dismantling any more. The values will be clearly marked on the side, and available from decent electrical wholesalers.

[PD1964]

26 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

That looks like an AC motor to me and I think the above answers take that as read. Seems an odd thing t have on an inland boat.

Not really if you do self pump outs, just used one this morning to pump a toilet out, run of a 240v Bollard. I don’t know what it would be like running off an Inverter, I imagine it would be ok though.

Edited May 23, 2021 by PD1964

[Tony Brooks]

19 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

Not really if you do self pump outs, just used one this morning to pump a toilet out, run of a 240v Bollard. I don’t know what it would be like running off an Inverter, I imagine it would be ok though.

 

Ah, that explains it. As Ex Brummie said I would just change the capacitor. When the one on my garden shredder blew it cost about £5 from Amazon self shielding at the time).

[Midnight]

1 hour ago, PD1964 said:

Not really if you do self pump outs, just used one this morning to pump a toilet out, run of a 240v Bollard. I don’t know what it would be like running off an Inverter, I imagine it would be ok though.

 

I run mine from the 1500w invertor but needed to add a soft-start device to the engine bay socket. I think a bigger invertor would be okay without.

 

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Ah, that explains it. As Ex Brummie said I would just change the capacitor. When the one on my garden shredder blew it cost about £5 from Amazon self shielding at the time).

 

Seems easy enough to replace if I can get one. I'll try Jabsco and ask them to post one to Crick post office unless I can find a local supplier along the way.

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Midnight said:

 

I run mine from the 1500w invertor but needed to add a soft-start device to the engine bay socket. I think a bigger invertor would be okay without.

 

 

Seems easy enough to replace if I can get one. I'll try Jabsco and ask them to post one to Crick post office unless I can find a local supplier along the way.

 

 

I bet that will cost more than Amazon/Ebay or even an electrical wholesalers. There must be one of those in Rugby.

[Midnight]

12 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I bet that will cost more than Amazon/Ebay or even an electrical wholesalers. There must be one of those in Rugby.

No doubt but I just want to get t sorted before the red light comes on. I don't have a lot of faith in Jabsco so I expect it will be an electrical wholesaler who will bail me out.

[Tracy D'arth]

You really need to know if its a starting capacitor or a start/run capacitor, the value in microfarads ( uf ) and the working voltage, all should be on the can.

Is there a centrifugal operated switch in the end? if so it will be a starting capacitor.

If not, its a start & run capacitor.  These are not like radio/tv capacitors or the power factor ones in florescent lights, they are motor capacitors.

Is there an RS store near?  Or a motor rewinder?

Ebay may be the easiest source.

[Midnight]

7 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

You really need to know if its a starting capacitor or a start/run capacitor, the value in microfarads ( uf ) and the working voltage, all should be on the can.

Is there a centrifugal operated switch in the end? if so it will be a starting capacitor.

If not, its a start & run capacitor.  These are not like radio/tv capacitors or the power factor ones in florescent lights, they are motor capacitors.

Is there an RS store near?  Or a motor rewinder?

Ebay may be the easiest source.

There's no centrifugal switch. Inside the motor are just the windings. The electric box has a small circuit board, trip switch and the capacitor. 

[Tracy D'arth]

10 minutes ago, Midnight said:

There's no centrifugal switch. Inside the motor are just the windings. The electric box has a small circuit board, trip switch and the capacitor. 

So its start and run cap.  240v Single phase AC motor.   Have you found the value? It will be around  10 to 32 uf usually.

 

This may help   https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181390741601?chn=ps&var=480375812082&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=480375812082_181390741601&targetid=1140163973729&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9046458&poi=&campaignid=12128858833&mkgroupid=117045676459&rlsatarget=pla-1140163973729&abcId=9300480&merchantid=9945634&gclid=CjwKCAjw-qeFBhAsEiwA2G7Nl4hH0OK8UTtQYdZ_DAAiBo0ZXe3-ASFVvJv-Ci2_WEiefzHePDI-GBoCrEQQAvD_BwE

Edited May 23, 2021 by Tracy D'arth

[Midnight]

27 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

So its start and run cap.  240v Single phase AC motor.   Have you found the value? It will be around  10 to 32 uf usually.

 

This may help   https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181390741601?chn=ps&var=480375812082&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=480375812082_181390741601&targetid=1140163973729&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9046458&poi=&campaignid=12128858833&mkgroupid=117045676459&rlsatarget=pla-1140163973729&abcId=9300480&merchantid=9945634&gclid=CjwKCAjw-qeFBhAsEiwA2G7Nl4hH0OK8UTtQYdZ_DAAiBo0ZXe3-ASFVvJv-Ci2_WEiefzHePDI-GBoCrEQQAvD_BwE

 

I can't get it out of the housing seems to be too tight for my little hands I'll ask Big Jimmy when it stops raining

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Midnight

[Midnight]

Brute force and a pair of grips

 

[ditchcrawler]

If the physical size is OK https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/163462265220?hash=item260f1c3984:g:DJIAAOSw0~de5jvh

[Midnight]

On 23/05/2021 at 18:56, ditchcrawler said:

If the physical size is OK https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/163462265220?hash=item260f1c3984:g:DJIAAOSw0~de5jvh

 Thank you ordered for delivery to Crick

[adrianh]

I have also found that the electronic control unit fitted instead of a centrifugal switch can fail, therefore the start winding does not energize so the motor will only rotate if the fan is spun by flicking. These are common on a Lafert manufactured motor which yours may be,

The black box means this is probably a capacitor start, induction run motor. 

[adrianh]

Spares can be had from Microclutch in Weston Super Mare.

They would need the motor plate details.

[Midnight]

26 minutes ago, adrianh said:

I have also found that the electronic control unit fitted instead of a centrifugal switch can fail, therefore the start winding does not energize so the motor will only rotate if the fan is spun by flicking. These are common on a Lafert manufactured motor which yours may be,

The black box means this is probably a capacitor start, induction run motor. 

 

It's an EMGR 'Elektromotorenwerk Grunhain' Made in Germany

 

20 minutes ago, adrianh said:

Spares can be had from Microclutch in Weston Super Mare.

They would need the motor plate details.

 

Thank you for the info. I'll try the new condenser first. I've been on to Jabsco today who don't keep spares for motors, but they can supply an alternative replacement motor at a good price.

 

I bought two of these about 5 years ago the first one failed after a year but they replaced it with the alternative motor which has been okay since. This one has done less than 2 hours work.

 

As I'm out cruising 'til October I may have to bite the bullet and settle for the replacement

Edited May 24, 2021 by Midnight

[Midnight]

Hmmm not working out for me. Received the capacitor but larger physical size than advertised. It won't fit the tube so I attached it with zip ties. Motor works better but sometimes still needs a hand start. When it does start un-aided it can't decide which way to rotate. Sometimes clockwise sometimes anti-clockwise. I called a motor repair centre who suggested the start windings are on the way out. Looks like a replacement motor from Jabsco - this is going to hurt!

[blackrose]

I don't know that much about electrical motors, except that in my experience the first thing to go are usually the brushes. Why has nobody suggested that?

 

If you have to spin it to get it going could it be that the brushes aren't making good contact when the motor has stopped but once it's going there's enough contact to keep it going.?

 

Just a thought...

 

In the meantime why don't you just pay for a pump-out?

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, blackrose said:

I don't know that much about electrical motors, except that in my experience the first thing to go are usually the brushes. Why has nobody suggested that?

 

If you have to spin it to get it going could it be that the brushes aren't making good contact when the motor has stopped but once it's going there's enough contact to keep it going.?

 

Just a thought...

 

In the meantime why don't you just pay for a pump-out?

 

Not all AC motors have brushes, that capacitor suggests its an induction motor and they don't use brushes.

[Tony Brooks]

Have you looked into getting the motor repaired? It may be worth a phone call and I suspect many motor rewind places could supply a compatible motor at a good price. Before you get too far out into the wilds Google "motor rewinds" plus the name of local towns and then give the results a ring.

[Tracy D'arth]

No brushes on a capacitor start/run AC only motor.

 If it runs OK sometimes and there is no sign of windings burnt, I doubt its the start windings. Without a start phase shift which is what the capacitor does it will be undecided which way to run.  Black box in the back casing?