Faulty Alternator Regulator?

[ditchcrawler]

33 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

 

 

Do you have a split charge relay by any chance?

 

[eid]

Just now, ditchcrawler said:

Do you have a split charge relay by any chance?

 

I do not.

[Tracy D'arth]

If it were a Sterling regulator box, I think the standard colour for the ' F'' field brush connection is white, it used to be green.

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Do you have a split charge relay by any chance?

 

Why do you ask ?

 

As it happens, one on each engine / alternator,

 

Shore Power Industries Model 1202

120 amp

Single alternator

Twin Battery bank

 

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[blackrose]

15 minutes ago, eid said:

 

There is different information on the manufacturers site and the retailers site (post 6)

 

Ok. I once sent an alternator regulator back to Sterling to be adjusted as it was only putting out 14.6v when it should have been 14.8v for FLAs. 

[eid]

18 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

its not unknown for the engine battery to be used to energise the domestic alternator directly although its not a good ides. should use a relay.

I guess the black wire is the warning lamp wire and the white the positive feed to the regulator cum  sense wire.

Thanks that makes sense.

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Edit to add now I have checked for you :

Manufacturer states 'ideal charge voltage' as 14.1 - 14.6v 

So, you should be maximising with your 14.6v alternator output.

 

The only information I can find from the manufacturer is this PDF which states an "equalisation" voltage of 14.1-14.4V. Where did you see the above?

[blackrose]

Can't you just set the dip switches on the Sterling regulator to 14.4v? (That would be the same as for sealed-lead acid batteries). Or have you already done that?

Edited December 12, 2020 by blackrose

[eid]

15 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Can't you just set the dip switches on the Sterling regulator to 14.4v? (That would be the same as for sealed-lead acid batteries). Or have you already done that?

I removed that and binned it. It wasn't working properly, although it did seem to be regulating the voltage.

 

I wish I'd left it alone now (I'll have this put on my gravestone)

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Why do you ask ?

 

As it happens, one on each engine / alternator,

 

Shore Power Industries Model 1202

120 amp

Single alternator

Twin Battery bank

 

 

I just wondered if one of the small cables could be energising it.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I just wondered if one of the small cables could be energising it.

 

Ok.

No, its not a VSR so it's not 'powered'.

[Tracy D'arth]

1 hour ago, eid said:

I removed that and binned it. It wasn't working properly, although it did seem to be regulating the voltage.

 

I wish I'd left it alone now (I'll have this put on my gravestone)

What else did you expect an alternator voltage regulator to do?  Brew tea?

[eid]

37 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

What else did you expect an alternator voltage regulator to do?  Brew tea?

It is meant to do a 3 stage charge as I'm sure you know. This wasn't working and it was blowing the fuse every time I put one in. This led me to believe it was doing nothing. It seems I was wrong.

[Richard10002]

3 minutes ago, eid said:

It is meant to do a 3 stage charge as I'm sure you know. This wasn't working and it was blowing the fuse every time I put one in. This led me to believe it was doing nothing. It seems I was wrong.

I've got a Sterling Pro Charge Ultra 60A 240v charger, 2 years old last March. A few weeks ago, an on board 40A fuse blew, so I asked Sterling 1) if it was still under warranty and 2) what might be the cause.... what was the fuse protecting?

 

He didnt answer the warranty question, and his answer to the fuse question was to just fit a bigger fuse, and not to worry as it is current limited.

 

Needless to say, I didnt fit a bigger fuse, and eventually diagnosed that the holder needed a good clean, and nipping up - it has worked fine since.

 

I still wonder, given his advice, what is the point of the fuse, and what might have happened had I fitted say, a 100A fuse, or higher?

 

I relay this tail because it is entirely possible that there could be a similar issue with the fuse in your smart regulator, if you still have the offending item.

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

6 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

I've got a Sterling Pro Charge Ultra 60A 240v charger, 2 years old last March. A few weeks ago, an on board 40A fuse blew, so I asked Sterling 1) if it was still under warranty and 2) what might be the cause.... what was the fuse protecting?

 

He didnt answer the warranty question, and his answer to the fuse question was to just fit a bigger fuse, and not to worry as it is current limited.

 

Needless to say, I didnt fit a bigger fuse, and eventually diagnosed that the holder needed a good clean, and nipping up - it has worked fine since.

 

I still wonder, given his advice, what is the point of the fuse, and what might have happened had I fitted say, a 100A fuse, or higher?

 

I relay this tail because it is entirely possible that there could be a similar issue with the fuse in your smart regulator, if you still have the offending item.

 

 

Good point.

 

The fuse in these regs also selects the polarity of the device, was it in the correct sockets?

[eid]

1 minute ago, Richard10002 said:

I've got a Sterling Pro Charge Ultra 60A 240v charger, 2 years old last March. A few weeks ago, an on board 40A fuse blew, so I asked Sterling 1) if it was still under warranty and 2) what might be the cause.... what was the fuse protecting?

 

He didnt answer the warranty question, and his answer to the fuse question was to just fit a bigger fuse, and not to worry as it is current limited.

 

Needless to say, I didnt fit a bigger fuse, and eventually diagnosed that the holder needed a good clean, and nipping up - it has worked fine since.

 

I still wonder, given his advice, what is the point of the fuse, and what might have happened had I fitted say, a 100A fuse, or higher?

 

I relay this tail because it is entirely possible that there could be a similar issue with the fuse in your smart regulator, if you still have the offending item.

 

 

Damn that's concerning advice you received.

 

I don't have the regulator any more. It seemed like it was doing nothing at all as even when I disconnected the wires to the alternator brushes (following advice on here), the voltage stayed the same. With a BSC test coming up I decided to just remove the whole thing.

 

I've been looking into this a bit and found a couple of things:

1) The regulator in the alternator could well be 14.6V so may not be faulty. Though why I haven't noticed this before is odd. Could be due to my new solar setup (not really using the alternator when moored).

2) Due to the temperature offset, 14.6V is fine up to a temperature of about 20C (assuming 14.4V is the max charging voltage, which I'm unable to know for sure)

 

5 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Good point.

 

The fuse in these regs also selects the polarity of the device, was it in the correct sockets?

That's right. I actually tried it both ways as I remember. Neither worked. Also the voltages measured at the cables coming from the brushes didnt seem to tally up with the Sterling installation instructions.

 

 

[eid]

I just noticed something which may shed some light on these 2 wires going into my leisure bank alternator.

I established yesterday that they were both connected to the positive circuit of the starter battery. Today, while the engine was running, I briefly knocked the starter battery isolator switch off. The result of this is that my leisure batteries instantly went to over 15V.

The only way I can understand this is if my leisure alternator is taking a voltage reading from one of these 2 wires which are connected to the starter battery. Does this make sense or is there another explanation?

Any suggestions on what to do next?

[Tracy D'arth]

If you are losing regulation when you disconnect A wire from the battery + ( by opening the isolator switch ) then that wire is a voltage sensing wire for a regulator, either in the alternator or an external one like a Sterling. You are unloading the alternator, its voltage will rise hugely. Don't open isolators with the engine running, alternator may get very upset.  They need to be connected to a battery.

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, eid said:

I just noticed something which may shed some light on these 2 wires going into my leisure bank alternator.

I established yesterday that they were both connected to the positive circuit of the starter battery. Today, while the engine was running, I briefly knocked the starter battery isolator switch off. The result of this is that my leisure batteries instantly went to over 15V.

The only way I can understand this is if my leisure alternator is taking a voltage reading from one of these 2 wires which are connected to the starter battery. Does this make sense or is there another explanation?

Any suggestions on what to do next?

 

As I suggested much earlier, its battery sensing. This suggest the system was never wired properly to look after the domestic bank.

 

I suggest that you  rewire. 

 

1. Use the feed from the ignition switch to control the ENGINE battery warning lamp but also to feed the coil of a relay. the other relay coil terminal connect to engine negative.

 

2. Feed one relay contact from the domestic battery positive

 

3. Use the other relay contact to do what the ignition switch did for those two wires so probably another warning lamp fr the domestic alternator.

 

I can't be more specific because I am unsure of the wiring requirements for your alternator but careful inspection of where the thinner wires run to/from should tell you how to wire them using the relay.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Tony Brooks

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, eid said:

  Today, while the engine was running, I briefly knocked the starter battery isolator switch off. The result of this is that my leisure batteries instantly went to over 15V.

 

A good way to kill an alternator is to isolate the battery with the engine running

[eid]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

As I suggested much earlier, its battery sensing. This suggest the system was never wired properly to look after the domestic bank.

 

I suggest that you  rewire. 

 

1. Use the feed from the ignition switch to control the ENGINE battery warning lamp but also to feed the coil of a relay. the other relay coil terminal connect to engine negative.

 

2. Feed one relay contact from the domestic battery positive

 

3. Use the other relay contact to do what the ignition switch did for those two wires so probably another warning lamp fr the domestic alternator.

 

I can't be more specific because I am unsure of the wiring requirements for your alternator but careful inspection of where the thinner wires run to/from should tell you how to wire them using the relay.

 

Hello Tony. Glad we got to the bottom of it at last. Thank you so much!

I'll have to read over your post until I understand it properly but in the meantime, I'll try and trace those wires.

edit: Ah, I see what it means now.

 

 

2 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

If you are losing regulation when you disconnect A wire from the battery + ( by opening the isolator switch ) then that wire is a voltage sensing wire for a regulator, either in the alternator or an external one like a Sterling. You are unloading the alternator, its voltage will rise hugely. Don't open isolators with the engine running, alternator may get very upset.  They need to be connected to a battery.

 

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

A good way to kill an alternator is to isolate the battery with the engine running

 

Thank you both. I was aware of this danger but was having a special moment.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2020 by eid

[Tony Brooks]

32 minutes ago, eid said:

 

Hello Tony. Glad we got to the bottom of it at last. Thank you so much!

I'll have to read over your post until I understand it properly but in the meantime, I'll try and trace those wires.

edit: Ah, I see what it means now.

 

 

 

 

Thank you both. I was aware of this danger but was having a special moment.

 

 

I who should know better have those, once turned the master switch off with the engine  running but luckily the surge quench system caught it without blowing itself up.

 

Probably the VSR helped because it kept the engine battery in circuit.

[eid]

50 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I who should know better have those, once turned the master switch off with the engine  running but luckily the surge quench system caught it without blowing itself up.

 

Probably the VSR helped because it kept the engine battery in circuit.

I've actually done it a few times on my leisure bank One time I found it off when I pulled up to a lock. Id been cruising for a while and had thrown something down the stairs. It must have bounced and hit the switch. I don't know why it still works honestly. I was thinking of sawing off the switch handle so it can't happen any more.

[RufusR]

14.6 is prob fine for many battery types esp this time of year when temps are low but check battery manufacturers specs to see if you are in tolerance . 

Edited December 13, 2020 by RufusR

[eid]

On 13/12/2020 at 13:40, Tony Brooks said:

 

 

I can't be more specific because I am unsure of the wiring requirements for your alternator but careful inspection of where the thinner wires run to/from should tell you how to wire them using the relay.

 

I had a look at the wires and as far as I can see, the black one goes directly to the warning lamp and the white one goes from the ignition switch to the fuel pump and then to the alternator.So it's either a feed to energise the alternator, as you suggested earlier, or a voltage sense.

I was thinking about temporarily taking it off and connecting one from the domestic bank, to see if it effected the charge voltage. Is there any reason not to?

[Tony Brooks]

41 minutes ago, eid said:

 

I had a look at the wires and as far as I can see, the black one goes directly to the warning lamp and the white one goes from the ignition switch to the fuel pump and then to the alternator.So it's either a feed to energise the alternator, as you suggested earlier, or a voltage sense.

I was thinking about temporarily taking it off and connecting one from the domestic bank, to see if it effected the charge voltage. Is there any reason not to?

Thanks, I very much doubt its a voltage sense if wired like that. Too many chances to suffer voltdrop. Perhaps when @Sir Nibble has time he can give us chaper and verse.