tehmarks Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 (I appreciate most on here won’t be able to advise, but I know there are a few lumpy water sailors and expatriates on here, and I’d love to hear their advice). For various reasons, I have been and am again considering a move to lumpier waters (on a sailboat – definitely not a motor cruiser) in the next, say, 3-5 years. I’ve had an ambition for a while to have an extensive sailing adventure and combine it with my other passion of climbing. Something like ‘touring’ all of the sea cliffs of southern Europe, approaching them by sea rather than by land. Given that there is developed climbing pretty much the length of the Med, that could easily occupy a good year or two of adventuring. I broke my leg quite badly in 2018, and read the first chapter of Simon Yates’ ‘The Wild Within’ while lying immobile in a French hospital. His account of sailing on a friend’s yacht around the Tierra del Fuego to climb a mountain that humans probably had never even set foot on really inspired me, and a less extreme version of the same idea has been lingering in my head ever since. I don’t really have any desire to ever live permanently on land, and I don’t envisage the inland waterwaysremaining a viable prospect for living into my later years. The theoretical boundless freedom of living on a vessel that can go virtually anywhere in the world really appeals to me too, and I also like the freedom of not falling under CRT and their abject mismanagement. And the sea can’t be made a government policy or suffer from neglect in the way that the inland waterways can. The catch? As things stand, I can’t sail and have never lived on anything more exciting than the canal network. I fully appreciate that the sea is a completely different beast altogether, that it demands competence and respect, and that it will be a lot more effort and a much bigger commitment than doing the same on the inland waterways however I do it. I don't plan to just randomly move from my steel tube with no experience or knowledge. My plan is to, at some point in the next couple years, do the RYA Day Skipper course and go from there. I’d initially be looking at taking and living on a deep water mooring somewhere in the South West (where my partner is moving to). I’ll be aboard alone quite often and would like a boat I can sail single-handed, though I do also have friends who have an interest in sailing and who would occasionally love to crew. Questions: Is this feasible and realistic (for a fit young person with the right amount of enthusiasm)? Rigged sensibly, would it be feasible for said fit young person to learn to and cope with single-handing a ~36-40’ yacht, or do I need to be thinking shorter? Is living on a swing mooring just a pain in the rear, or a serious pain in the rear? What things am I certain to have not considered? To top it off, I have a serious soft spot for classic (read: wooden) vessels. Something like this screams out to me as making the ideal sort of live-aboard boat for me (albeit, in this specific instance, at the expense of sailing performance). Best start saving now…? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, tehmarks said: Questions: Is this feasible and realistic (for a fit young person with the right amount of enthusiasm)? Rigged sensibly, would it be feasible for said fit young person to learn to and cope with single-handing a ~36-40’ yacht, or do I need to be thinking shorter? Is living on a swing mooring just a pain in the rear, or a serious pain in the rear? What things am I certain to have not considered? Answers (for further discussion) 1) Yes it is possibly feasible to liveaboard on a mooring but not to travel on the open sea with just a 'day Skipper' endorsement and no hours / months / years of practical knowledge. 2) Yes, single handed is quite realistic, but the boat needs to be rigged for single handed use - you need all of the bits of string coming back into the cockpit, self furling sails etc. 3) Living on a mooring would be a serious pain - food, water, gas, electric how will you get them, you will have to go ashore every few days and if the weather is bad then you could be stuck on the boat for days (even weeks) unable to take your dinghy to get supplies. Many swinging moorings are 'closed' and boats removed for Winter as the weather can be too severe and lines snapped, anchorages & chains dragged etc. 4) Most sailing boats will spend around 50% of their time with the engines running. Unless you want to stay anchored up until the wind is right, then engines are a must. Whilst you do not want a cruiser (why ever not ?) a good compromise is a motor-sailer. They 'handle quite well' under power and sail quite well. You do not get the best features of both sail and power, but you don't get the worst either. There are several 'motor sailers' around us and they handle nicely. Have a look at 'Fisher Motor sailers' https://www.theyachtmarket.com/en/boats-for-sale/sailing-boats/fisher/ https://www.theyachtmarket.com/en/boat-for-sale/1967579/ ALL boats seem small on the sea, but for a beginner single handed I'd suggest that 30 foot would be a good size - sailing boats tend to be very narrow and lose a 'lot' of space as the bow and stern narrow. Motor sailers (and cruiser) tend to have better layouts and are 'chunkier'. Your 'day skipper' is only the start, you need to do at least 'coastal' before you venture further out and spend the night alone on board at anchor. I never sleep well at anchor even with 2 anchor alarms set. With regard to anchoring practice, practice, practice and have at least 2 suitable anchors on board (ideally 3) what suits sandy/ gravel bottoms doesn't suit rocky or weedy bottoms, what suits rocky doesn't suit weedy etc etc. Learn to read a chart. Electronics make things easy but are even the manufacturers state "these should not be relied on for navigation". Chart reading, interpretation, compass and tidal stream knowledge are all absolutely critical. Remember if you are setting off across a tidal stream the water will take you sideways as you travel forwards so you could be actually going at an angle to where you think you are going, as the tide changes it will be taking you back in the other direction. What may appear to be say a 60 mile trip (12 hours) can actually result in a 120 mile Z shaped trip. Sailing is great, but motoring is better - you can go where you want when you want. Try it, but learn to walk before you run - don't become a statistic. Edited November 17, 2020 by Alan de Enfield 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoominPapa Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 No expert, but have crewed for a friend with a 40'+ ocean-going yacht, and a couple of points come to mind. 1) It is possible to single hand a boat that big (our friend does it on occasion) but you need to be a good, experienced sailor, and even then, it dramatically increases the number of mishaps that can kill you. 2) Lumpy water boating is much more expensive than inland boating. Marina moorings are more expensive. Boats are more expensive. Bits for boats are more expensive, maintenance in more expensive, and you can't skimp on it. 3) You need a lot more skills and a lot more experience than for inland boating. MP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Harold Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 Can't say anything useful me being a muddy ditchcrawler,but I can see where you are coming from.The thought of sailing anywhere without CRT stoppages is very appealing.The boat you have linked to looks gorgeous. I would guess though that the reality of sea cruising will most likely be rather different to what one dreams. As for single handing,didn't Francis Chichester sail around the world single handed when he was old and sick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 20 minutes ago, tehmarks said: (I appreciate most on here won’t be able to advise, but I know there are a few lumpy water sailors and expatriates on here, and I’d love to hear their advice). For various reasons, I have been and am again considering a move to lumpier waters (on a sailboat – definitely not a motor cruiser) in the next, say, 3-5 years. I’ve had an ambition for a while to have an extensive sailing adventure and combine it with my other passion of climbing. Something like ‘touring’ all of the sea cliffs of southern Europe, approaching them by sea rather than by land. Given that there is developed climbing pretty much the length of the Med, that could easily occupy a good year or two of adventuring. I broke my leg quite badly in 2018, and read the first chapter of Simon Yates’ ‘The Wild Within’ while lying immobile in a French hospital. His account of sailing on a friend’s yacht around the Tierra del Fuego to climb a mountain that humans probably had never even set foot on really inspired me, and a less extreme version of the same idea has been lingering in my head ever since. I don’t really have any desire to ever live permanently on land, and I don’t envisage the inland waterwaysremaining a viable prospect for living into my later years. The theoretical boundless freedom of living on a vessel that can go virtually anywhere in the world really appeals to me too, and I also like the freedom of not falling under CRT and their abject mismanagement. And the sea can’t be made a government policy or suffer from neglect in the way that the inland waterways can. The catch? As things stand, I can’t sail and have never lived on anything more exciting than the canal network. I fully appreciate that the sea is a completely different beast altogether, that it demands competence and respect, and that it will be a lot more effort and a much bigger commitment than doing the same on the inland waterways however I do it. I don't plan to just randomly move from my steel tube with no experience or knowledge. My plan is to, at some point in the next couple years, do the RYA Day Skipper course and go from there. I’d initially be looking at taking and living on a deep water mooring somewhere in the South West (where my partner is moving to). I’ll be aboard alone quite often and would like a boat I can sail single-handed, though I do also have friends who have an interest in sailing and who would occasionally love to crew. Questions: Is this feasible and realistic (for a fit young person with the right amount of enthusiasm)? Rigged sensibly, would it be feasible for said fit young person to learn to and cope with single-handing a ~36-40’ yacht, or do I need to be thinking shorter? Is living on a swing mooring just a pain in the rear, or a serious pain in the rear? What things am I certain to have not considered? To top it off, I have a serious soft spot for classic (read: wooden) vessels. Something like this screams out to me as making the ideal sort of live-aboard boat for me (albeit, in this specific instance, at the expense of sailing performance). Best start saving now…? Are you prone to sea sickness? I new a chap who was a radio operator on a RN ww2 Atlantic convoy escort Corvette. He said he was sea sick throughout the whole duration and sat at his radio with a bucket alongside him. After the war he said he hated boats and wouldn't go on one on wet grass. My mum took the sea sickness pills ''Kwells'' when we took trips on the ferry across the Mersey to New Brighton on the other side. She also suffered with car sickness in modern cars which swayed along , but not in my old 1936 Ford Y type, nor my old Land Rovers which she said rattled along like a Liverpool tramcar. Barley suger sweets are supposed to ok too for sea sickness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehmarks Posted November 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: Answers (for further discussion) 1) Yes it is feasible to liveaboard on a mooring but nt to travel on the open sea with just a ';day Skipper' endorsement and no hours / months / years of practical knowledge. Oh yes, for sure. The Day Skipper is the 'in' - I'm under no illusion (delusion?) that it will make me competent or able! I figure it will turn the 'unknown unknowns' into 'known unknowns' though (nothing more dangerous than people who don't know how much they don't know...) - and I'd probably follow it up fairly quickly with Coastal Skipper as a minimum. Quote Living on a mooring would be a serious pain - food, water, gas, electric how will you get them, you will have to go ashore every few days and if the weather is bad then you could be stuck on the boat for days (even weeks) unable to take your dinghy to get supplies. Many swinging moorings are 'closed' and boats removed for Winter as the weather can be too severe and lines snapped, anchorages & chains dragged etc. Yup, I figured so. I was hoping I could find (and/or adapt to be) a boat that can be self-sufficient for relatively long periods. I understand as well that many moorings are not available over winter and that many people take their boats out of the water over winter. I have poor weather options (my girlfriend has just bought a house in Torbay), and I think a lot of my time would be split between the boat and her in large chunks. So keeping a constant watch on the forecast and legging it at the first sight of particularly bad weather is an option. I also want to investigate the possibility of berthing in or near London in a marina for the two busy work seasons, and cutting back significantly on how much outside of those times as well. I'm self-employed, so that is very much a possibility. I won't need to be ashore every day for work - mostly only as required for provisions and such things. But noted! Being a voyeur on YBW sometimes gives the impression that these sorts of things are both very possible and quite common. Another option, thinking about it, could be to have the boat out of the water and live with her over the winter... Quote 4) Most sailking boats will spend around 50% of their time with the engines running. Unless you want to stay anchored up until the wind is right, then engines are a must. Whilst you do not want a cruiser (whyever not ?) a good compromise is a motor-sailer. They 'handle quite well' under power and sail auite well. You do not get the best features of both sail and power, but you don';t get the worst either. I'm one of these weird planet-conscious people, and I like the idea of having a home as off-grid and planet-friendly as possible ? and something about wind-as-motive-power really appeals to me. Even if impractical and not always possible. Motor sailers look like a good compromise in terms of living practicalities - the pilot house giving a lot more usable space. But I know nowhere near enough to know about the limitations of the various sorts of boat...hence why I'm here! ? Quote Your 'day skipper' is only the start, you need to do at least 'coastal' before you venture further out and spend the night alone on board at anchor. I never sleep well at anchor even with 2 anchor alarms set. With regard to anchoring practice, practice, practice and have at least 2 suitable anchors on board (ideally 3) what suits sandy/ gravel bottoms doesn't suit rocky or weedy bottoms, what suits rocky doesn't suit weedy etc etc. Yup. Day Skipper, I figure, gets me to a point where I can venture out on...err, days...in sensible waters with crew and start to gain experience to complement the learning (one of my friends is keen to do a Day Skipper course with me, just for fun, and I know a few others who already sail). I'm under no illusion that it'll make me capable. Quote Learn to read a chart. Electronics make things easy but are even the manufacturers state "these should not be relied on for navigation". Chart reading, interpretation, compass and tidal stream knowledge are all absolutely critical. Yes. One benefit of having aviation experience and spending most of my time in the hills and mountains - pretty good with maps and charts in general, and very aware of their importance! Quote Remember if you are setting off across a tidal stream the water will take you sideways as you travel forwards so you could be actually going at an angle to where you think you are going, as the tide changes it will be taking you back in the other direction. What may appear to be say a 60 mile trip (12 hours) can actually result in a 120 mile Z shaped trip. Very similar again to flying (but somewhat slower). Quote Try it, but learn to walk before you run - don't become a statistic. Absolutely. Edited November 17, 2020 by tehmarks Premature posting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoominPapa Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Mad Harold said: Can't say anything useful me being a muddy ditchcrawler,but I can see where you are coming from.The thought of sailing anywhere without CRT stoppages is very appealing.The boat you have linked to looks gorgeous. I would guess though that the reality of sea cruising will most likely be rather different to what one dreams. As for single handing,didn't Francis Chichester sail around the world single handed when he was old and sick? No CRT stoppages, but the weather can stop you for weeks, the tides can be wrong (and if you don't want to get up a 3am to catch the tide, it'll be wrong more often.) I don't see where the idea that it's free from official interference come from, either, This is international travel, folks. There plenty of paperwork to get right and vogons to appease. MP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyG Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) 1 don't buy a proper wooden boat unless you are a wooden boatbuilder. 2 buy a good mirror dinghy or a kit and make your own, there will be loads of second hand dingies for sale that will let you learn. 3 join a local sailing club and get sailing. Volunteer as racing crew. Learn about winches, and all the sailing terms. 4 volunteer as casual crew for offshore racing, be prepared to go every weekend any time of year, winter racing inshore is conducted by good local clubs. 4 you need to be at yachtmaster level before you start anything adventurous. So you need to do the exams, learn how to navigate with pencil, compasses, parallel rules. Understand colregs, bearing compass, Vhf etc etc. 5. Living on a swinging mooring is not possible unless in a very sheltered area, and even then you may not be able to go ashore when you want to. I had a 30 foot blue water cruiser/racer, you don't need forty foot to live on, best to have something you can handle in survival conditions. I only used the engine to exit the marina, or to get off the moorings without hitting anyone else, if the batteries were topped up I could sail off and on to a mooring singlehanded, you need to learn these skills if you want to sail. If you want to potter about in good weather, and nothing wrong with that, then something like Alan has pictured will be fine, but it won't get you out of trouble when the engine breaks down. There are several races which involve running up mountains, some of them use fell runners, and sailors, they will only take on good crew, strong, fit and skilled. When we took on crew who were not racing offshore every weekend they had to start on sea sickness pills two days before we set off, no passengers. I took one lad out, training up in Loch Fyne, nust about F4, he did all right, but confided to me that it was too full on, he only had to reef the main at the mast, and trim the jib, when tacking. I was always a bit nervous at the start of every season, it's quite natural, I think. soon passes when you've got something to do. Edited November 17, 2020 by LadyG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, MoominPapa said: Lumpy water boating is much more expensive than inland boating. Marina moorings are more expensive. Boats are more expensive. Bits for boats are more expensive, maintenance in more expensive, and you can't skimp on it. Having just moved from the 'ditch' back to the sea I';m afraid I must disagree. I am paying the same for my Coastal shelltered mooring as I did for my BWML mooring. I am no longer paying £800 per annum for a licence - saving I am no longer paying for a BSSC - saving Fuel is cheaper than inland Boats are cheaper than Narrowboats Bits tend to be similarly priced - the costal market is 10x the size of the Inland market so even specialised ;'stuff' is no more expensive. Maintenance is no more expensive - parts are the same price and your labour is the same price. If you use commercial firms then there is a lot of competition, every town, and marina has at least one 'maintenance' firm. Correct : you should not skimp of maintenenace the implications are certainly higher than on the canals - there is no getting off, or drifting to the side when you are 20 miles out of sight of land. You need technical / mechanical expertise and a full suite of spare parts (Ideally twin engines is good). Edited November 17, 2020 by Alan de Enfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehmarks Posted November 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 20 minutes ago, bizzard said: Are you prone to sea sickness? I've not, so far, been prone to any sort of motion sickness. About the closest I've come was my first flying lesson on stalling, where my instructor demonstrated what happens with an out-of-balance aircraft when it stalls. It's amazing how violently/quickly an aircraft can go from pointing up at the clouds to pointing sideways at the ground. No sickness, but it left me dizzy for the best part of the day. Unfortunately my partner is not so lucky. Understandably, she's also less keen on me living aboard a seagoing vessel over a narrowboat ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 22 minutes ago, LadyG said: 1 don't buy a proper wooden boat unless you are a wooden boatbuilder. 2 buy a good mirror dinghy or a kit and make your own, there will be loads of second hand dingies for sale that will let you learn. 3 join a local sailing club and get sailing. Volunteer as racing crew. Learn about winches, and all the sailing terms. 4 volunteer as casual crew for offshore racing, be prepared to go every weekend any time of year, winter racing inshore is conducted by good local clubs. 4 you need to be at yachtmaster level before you start anything adventurous. So you need to do the exams, learn how to navigate with pencil, compasses, parallel rules. Understand colregs, bearing compass, Vhf etc etc. 5. Living on a swinging mooring is not possible unless in a very sheltered area, and even then you may not be able to go ashore when you want to. I had a 30 foot blue water cruiser/racer, you don't need forty foot to live on, best to have something you can handle in survival conditions. I only used the engine to exit the marina, or to get off the moorings without hitting anyone else, if the batteries were topped up I could sail off and on to a mooring singlehanded, you need to learn these skills if you want to sail. If you want to potter about in good weather, and nothing wrong with that, then something like Alan has pictured will be fine, but it won't get you out of trouble when the engine breaks down. There are several races which involve running up mountains, some of them use fell runners, and sailors, they will only take on good crew, strong, fit and skilled. When we took on crew who were not racing offshore every weekend they had to start on sea sickness pills two days before we set off, no passengers. I took one lad out, training up in Loch Fyne, nust about F4, he did all right, but confided to me that it was too full on, he only had to reef the main at the mast, and trim the jib, when tacking. I was always a bit nervous at the start of every season, it's quite natural, I think. soon passes when you've got something to do. And don't go sailing at night if your colour blind, or you have a colour blind navigator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyG Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, tehmarks said: I've not, so far, been prone to any sort of motion sickness. About the closest I've come was my first flying lesson on stalling, where my instructor demonstrated what happens with an out-of-balance aircraft when it stalls. It's amazing how violently/quickly an aircraft can go from pointing up at the clouds to pointing sideways at the ground. No sickness, but it left me dizzy for the best part of the day. Unfortunately my partner is not so lucky. Understandably, she's also less keen on me living aboard a seagoing vessel over a narrowboat ? I don't know the area but I have seen one or two cruisers, which are capable of both sailing and cruising on the inland waters, I should have asked what the boat was, but was helping a fellow boater who had broken down, he came along to advise (so happened that he workedfor Lloyds , Lloyds Register, not the other one). I've never felt air sick unless the gliding instructor is piloting in a thermal, I still can't travel in the back of a car, but I think that is as much from childhood when cars were rear wheel drive and had leather seats, which I absolutely hated, gives me nausea to think of it. You decision, it must come down to cost, you can live on this hypothetical mooring, and go in to a marina when g'friend wants to see you, most have decent restuarants, so all very romantic. Edited November 17, 2020 by LadyG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, tehmarks said: I've not, so far, been prone to any sort of motion sickness. About the closest I've come was my first flying lesson on stalling, where my instructor demonstrated what happens with an out-of-balance aircraft when it stalls. It's amazing how violently/quickly an aircraft can go from pointing up at the clouds to pointing sideways at the ground. No sickness, but it left me dizzy for the best part of the day. Unfortunately my partner is not so lucky. Understandably, she's also less keen on me living aboard a seagoing vessel over a narrowboat ? I suffer (badly) from sea-sickness except when we are moving and im at the helm - the worst is at anchor when you are corkscrewing up and down, side to side and forwards and backwards. I have found that the tablets issued in Lifeboats sort me out BUT, and it is a big BUT have 2 tablets and they knock me out for 12 hours and I'm more asleep than awake for the next 12 hours. The Doctor gives them me on prescription (which is handy as I have free prescriptions). They are principally the same as Quells, but a bit stronger. They are called Cinnarizine and have beem proven to be the only sea-sickness remedy which can actually get thru the brains' membrane and tell the brain to ignore the 'hairs in your ears' that are telling the brain you are 'all over the place'. Take 2 tablets 2 hours before travel and one every 8 hours as necessary ( just one tablet does for me, with no repeats) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murflynn Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) 54 minutes ago, bizzard said: Are you prone to sea sickness? I new a chap who was a radio operator on a RN ww2 Atlantic convoy escort Corvette. He said he was sea sick throughout the whole duration and sat at his radio with a bucket alongside him. After the war he said he hated boats and wouldn't go on one on wet grass. My mum took the sea sickness pills ''Kwells'' when we took trips on the ferry across the Mersey to New Brighton on the other side. She also suffered with car sickness in modern cars which swayed along , but not in my old 1936 Ford Y type, nor my old Land Rovers which she said rattled along like a Liverpool tramcar. Barley suger sweets are supposed to ok too for sea sickness. back in the 60's I crewed for a neighbour, who was a retired WW2 naval Captain, on his 38ft yacht. https://www.bythedart.co.uk/about-dartmouth/local-history/dartmouth-world-war-two-heroes/ he was regularly seriously seasick (to the degree that he couldn't run the boat and retired to his bunk while I took over) and he admitted he always had been. Edited November 17, 2020 by Murflynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, tehmarks said: Yes. One benefit of having aviation experience and spending most of my time in the hills and mountains - pretty good with maps and charts in general, and very aware of their importance! I was a PPL and a Gliding instructor, and you have made quite a good analogy. Very similar to sailing in that you have to make allowances for the direction the wind (tide) is taking you off course. When flying you tend to have a better view of your route as everything appears 'flat' and you can see 70 or 80 miles, whilst as sea level the horizon is only about 3 miles. The other big difference between sea & air is the opportunity to run into containers that have been washed overboard - I very nearly hit one in the Irish Sea, there was literally a 2 foot high 'corner' sticking up out of the water, with the best part of 40 feet just under the surface. Hitting that at 25knts in a GRP boat would not have been a good idea. On a trip down the North Sea, off the Norfolk coast, some huge oil pipes (up to 1000mts long) had fallen off a boat on the way to the Middle East, these had sunk to having just a couple of inches above water and were a major hazard to shipping. Over a couple of weeks tugs managed to get them and pump some air into them and tow them back to shore. Edited November 17, 2020 by Alan de Enfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Murflynn said: back in the 60's I crewed for a neighbour, who was a retired WW2 naval Captain, on his 38ft yacht. https://www.bythedart.co.uk/about-dartmouth/local-history/dartmouth-world-war-two-heroes/ he was regularly seriously seasick (to the degree that he couldn't run the boat and retired to his bunk while I took over) and he admitted he always had been. If I were seasick I wouldn't go sailing at all. Nausia is horrible,, just not worth it. Horace Coker in Billy Bunters ''Holiday Cruise'' was horribly seasick. That chap I knew, the radio operator on the Corvette didn't know he'd be sicksick until it was too late Edited November 17, 2020 by bizzard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehmarks Posted November 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 @Alan de Enfield: a random aside - is there a marine equivalent of the NOTAM system for such things? I assume there surely must be (but of course, a floating hazard is a bit different to an immovable bit of airspace...)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 The Chinese gybe is nasty if your not paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murflynn Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, bizzard said: If I were seasick I wouldn't go sailing at all. Nausia is horrible,, just not worth it. Horace Coker in Billy Bunters ''Holiday Cruise'' was horribly seasick. That chap I knew, the radio operator on the Corvette didn't know he'd be sicksick until it was too late agree - he was a doubly brave man to dedicate his life to being at sea in all conditions despite the mind-numbing experience of serious sea-sickness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, tehmarks said: @Alan de Enfield: a random aside - is there a marine equivalent of the NOTAM system for such things? I assume there surely must be (but of course, a floating hazard is a bit different to an immovable bit of airspace...)? Yes 'Notice to Mariners' which will be dispayed at most marinas. Typically it will be warnings of something in 'transit', dredging, movement of channel buoys etc. It is unlikely to report 'accidents' (containers ?) unless they have been reported to the authorities. A typical 'local NtoM' concerning a sunken boat in the Menai Straits which may be dragging in the current. I probably get at least 2 Local NtoM per week from the Harbour trust who are responsible for the Menai. mainly the re-buoying of the channe due to the sandbanks moving after every 'blow'. Edited November 17, 2020 by Alan de Enfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tosher Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 As a sailing instructor for 10 years I came across many students who suffered from sea sickness. To try and keep moral up we used to have a competition amongst those affected. The "competitors were judged on three things. (1)---- colour content. (2)----- distance thrown. (3)-----artistic impression. The winner received a coveted tattoo of an anchor & bucket on the fore arm. (pen & ink not a real one). I was amazed how those suffering really entered into the spirit of it and tried their best to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoominPapa Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said: Having just moved from the 'ditch' back to the sea I';m afraid I must disagree. I am paying the same for my Coastal shelltered mooring as I did for my BWML mooring. I am no longer paying £800 per annum for a licence - saving I am no longer paying for a BSSC - saving Fuel is cheaper than inland Boats are cheaper than Narrowboats Bits tend to be similarly priced - the costal market is 10x the size of the Inland market so even specialised ;'stuff' is no more expensive. Maintenance is no more expensive - parts are the same price and your labour is the same price. If you use commercial firms then there is a lot of competition, every town, and marina has at least one 'maintenance' firm. Correct : you should not skimp of maintenenace the implications are certainly higher than on the canals - there is no getting off, or drifting to the side when you are 20 miles out of sight of land. You need technical / mechanical expertise and a full suite of spare parts (Ideally twin engines is good). You have better experience of this than me, so I can't argue, but I expect the difference is at least party between motor boats and ocean-going sailers. Our cap'n did seem to spend an awful lot of dosh on rigging and sails and antifouling and watermakers and satphones and servicing winches and overnights in marinas and liferafts and lifejackets that set off alarms when you fell in and charts, etc etc etc. MP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, MoominPapa said: You have better experience of this than me, so I can't argue, but I expect the difference is at least party between motor boats and ocean-going sailers. Our cap'n did seem to spend an awful lot of dosh on rigging and sails (roughly every 10 years depends how they are looked after) and antifouling (every 2 or 3 years the same as Blacking) and watermakers (not needed unless crossing the Atlantic) and satphones (not needed unless going a long way offshore - our 3-Phone suffices) and servicing winches (an annual strip down to remove salt - 15-30 minutes each per annum) and overnights in marinas (optional) and liferafts (£100 ish every 5 years) and lifejackets that set off alarms when you fell in (are you thinking of man overboard AIS systems ? not necessary unless you want them to be) and charts, etc etc etc. (yes always lots of etc etc etc) If you don't like shopping don't buy a boat. You can be as much a 'poser' as you want to be, there are always those who want to replace their electronics every 6 months and will spend £15k doing it, or you can lead the simple life, you don't NEED anything different to an inland boat - except a definate need for an anchor and a lifejacket. You need a watertight hull, a reliable engine and somewhere to cook and sleep. I've given up carrying a liferaft on the cruiser - we have a tender for going ashore, its always inflated and on the back of the boat so cut the lines and we have an instant 'liferaft'. We have grab bags with water, VHF radio, PLB, 1st aid kit and flares so just take them with us if we need to abandon ship. The tender has its own (permanently onboard) 'emergency tub' containing water, towel, flares a VHF radio, spare engine parts, plugs, tools and a spare litre of petrol for the outboard. You can do it on a £10k boat or a £1m boat. Edited November 17, 2020 by Alan de Enfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesFrance Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 I was entirely self taught by reading Reeds almanac when I bought an old 42ft motor sailer lying in Malta in 1969, with only having sailed a 22ft yacht round the UK coast for a year. With my wife and 2 small children we managed to bring it back to Falmouth the following year without any serious difficulty. It's all a lot more bureaucratic now and you need an IHCC from the RYA and also Cevni if you go through the French canals. I also found it easier to go singlehanded with boats up to 36ft as you have noone else to worry about, just be sure to tie yourself onto something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyG Posted November 17, 2020 Report Share Posted November 17, 2020 4 hours ago, Mad Harold said: Can't say anything useful me being a muddy ditchcrawler,but I can see where you are coming from.The thought of sailing anywhere without CRT stoppages is very appealing.The boat you have linked to looks gorgeous. I would guess though that the reality of sea cruising will most likely be rather different to what one dreams. As for single handing,didn't Francis Chichester sail around the world single handed when he was old and sick? He did,but he knew what he was doing, read up all the old books, starting with Slocum, his boat Spray lives on today, a classic design. see Emerald Steel on youtube, they build their own boat and set off to sail the world, things have changed, but one thing that has not is safety and comfort, common sense. Your g'friend is not going to br converted, particularly as you are no Tom Cuncliffe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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