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Just now, Graham Davis said:

No.

I'm this case the customer cancelled BEFORE the company were unable to fulfil their side of the contract, therefore the customer is at fault, and the deposit is not refundable. It doesn't matter if deposit money is ringfenced or not.

 

This thread like most has been all over the place and even airlines have been mentioned. Either way a company should be obliged to return the deposit where a holiday does not take place due to no fault of the purchaser. Which loops back to my belief that customer deposits should be ring fenced until the holiday materialises. In this particular case the company undoubtably has an argument - whether I agree with it or not is irrelevant as regards the general concept of ring fencing.

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13 hours ago, kawaton said:

Should just have deferred til next year. If everyone is alive and well, next years (annual) trip is paid for.

Forget the money aspect. Money was always spent. It;s memories that could have been made that are lost.  Thats noones fault.

 

We were due to be on a boat today with anglowelsh.  I knew it wasnt going to happen.

i waited, they called, i rebooked. Next years trip sorted.

 

 

 

That is very commendable on the part of Anglo-Welsh. I have sympathy with them as they still have current expenses, wholly or partly covered by your payment for this years holiday (which you are not taking). When you take next years holiday, they will have no income for that week but still have the associated expenses!

13 hours ago, Traveller said:

Yes but at the end of the day they have not delivered and therefore the deposit monies should still be available for return. Even if less an admin charge given the circumstances. That is why I believe deposit monies should be ring fenced. 
 

 

But they have ‘not delivered’ not through any fault of their own. This really is an unprecedented, global, situation. I think we should view this pragmatically. I am happy with a voucher. I should have been on the Broads last week. It didn’t happen. As the previous poster said, ‘next years holiday is sorted’!

Edited by KJT
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4 minutes ago, KJT said:

That is very commendable on the part of Anglo-Welsh. I have sympathy with them as they still have current expenses, wholly or partly covered by your payment for this years holiday (which you are not taking). When you take next years holiday, they will have no income for that week but still have the associated expenses!

But they have ‘not delivered’ not through any fault of their own. This really is an unprecedented, global, situation. I think we should view this pragmatically. I am happy with a voucher. I should have been on the Broads last week. It didn’t happen. As the previous poster said, ‘next years holiday is sorted’!

That still does not detract from my belief that deposit monies should not be absorbed into the company in advance of the holiday.  Don't quite get the expenses argument - what expenses are there that are associated with a holiday that has been cancelled for whatever reason, other than perhaps small admin costs to register the booking. 

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7 minutes ago, Traveller said:

Don't quite get the expenses argument - what expenses are there that are associated with a holiday that has been cancelled for whatever reason, other than perhaps small admin costs to register the booking. 

Rent, business rates, wages, utilities, marketing & the obvious inability to book that boat for another hirer, to name a few. 

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7 minutes ago, KJT said:

I guess you have never run a business?

Run my own business no. Controlled/carried out oversight of regulated businesses yes.

The expenses to which you refer are the ongoing expenses of the business and have nothing to do with a booked holiday, which is the result of the marketing effort. The fact that the boat cannot be rented to anyone else is relevant if the cancellation is down to the purchaser pulling out. Even then the boat might still be let out with a bit of good luck and therefore the business is making money out of someone else's misfortune. 

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59 minutes ago, Traveller said:

That still does not detract from my belief that deposit monies should not be absorbed into the company in advance of the holiday.  Don't quite get the expenses argument - what expenses are there that are associated with a holiday that has been cancelled for whatever reason, other than perhaps small admin costs to register the booking. 

Following your logic would mean the only person/company able to operate a hire business would be someone who starts out with a few hundred thousand in capital, so they can buy and operate a fleet with no bank loan.  Even to operate a single boat they would need enough capital to purchase it, produce a website/brochure, have access to service premises & engineers, and operate an office.

 

Then they could perhaps keep your deposit 100% ringfenced until you arrive for your holiday.   But of course they wouldn't have the money to put any fuel or water in the boat, check the oil etc in advance - so don't expect to get away from the yard in less than 3-4 hours! 🙂

 

Luckily that's not the way most businesses work!

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Following your logic would mean the only person/company able to operate a hire business would be someone who starts out with a few hundred thousand in capital, so they can buy and operate a fleet with no bank loan.  Even to operate a single boat they would need enough capital to purchase it, produce a website/brochure, have access to service premises & engineers, and operate an office.

 

Then they could perhaps keep your deposit 100% ringfenced until you arrive for your holiday.   But of course they wouldn't have the money to put any fuel or water in the boat, check the oil etc in advance - so don't expect to get away from the yard in less than 3-4 hours! 🙂

 

Luckily that's not the way most businesses work!

 

 

So you think it is fine to use money taken in for a future event to fund the start up costs of a business. And the last time I hired I did not get away for about 3 hours - honest 🙂 The alternative is for the hire company to be open and publish a health warning explaining that in the event of a cancellation, one that provides for a refund, monies might not be available to meet that refund. If people want to live with that then fine.  I stand by what I said, a deposit is to secure a future event and is paid in good faith. It is not at that stage part of the businesses income, although they might benefit from any interest earned on that cash (well not these days).


 

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But the OP cancelled.  Therefore they lose the deposit.  Nothing odd there.

 

I was advised by Anglowelsh, if i couldnt find an alternative date, they would refund my deposit. I found one for next year.

Difference being i waited for them to tell me they couldn't honour my initial booking.

 

Edited by kawaton
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Just now, kawaton said:

But the OP cancelled.  Therefore they lose the deposit.  Nothing odd there.

 

I was advised by Anglowelsh, if i couldnt find an alternative date, they would refund my deposit. 

 

That is absolutely fine. You had choice. I am not talking about boat hire specifically but holiday/travel businesses in general and the way deposits are handled/held.

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I have just had a phone call from a hotel Wales, they have just told me I cant stay and the will ether refund my money or I can move the booking. I opted to have the money back.  If I had cancelled a month ago I wouldn't have got anything.

 

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I’ve got a 4 day trip booked for July to Wales. It was for my son’s graduation, which is no longer taking place. We will probably still do the trip if it is possible as it will be nice to get a break in a very secluded location. Their cancellation policy is unbelievably loaded in favour of customers. There is a 30% deposit with the balance due 21 days before the trip. If you cancel before the 21 days you get your deposit back minus a £20 admin fee. If you cancel after that date they retain your 30% deposit unless they can relet. You could cancel the day before, leaving them no chance to relet, and still get 70% back. I can’t believe how generous they are being in their terms. 

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This will probably get merged but it’s a different take on it. My boss had only come back from maternity leave a week before the lockdown. Her son had been in nursery for a week. Now he is at home with her while she is working. The nursery is shut but still wants paying. She’s not thrilled but it had been budgeted for and she needs a nursery to be there on the other side of this, so is willing to pay. I can understand where someone who has had a huge change in their financial situation and is struggling might need the money back but, in lots of other circumstances, we  need to balance not getting money back for non delivered services with having those services surviving and available to us in the future. 

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9 hours ago, Traveller said:

This thread like most has been all over the place and even airlines have been mentioned. Either way a company should be obliged to return the deposit where a holiday does not take place due to no fault of the purchaser. Which loops back to my belief that customer deposits should be ring fenced until the holiday materialises. In this particular case the company undoubtably has an argument - whether I agree with it or not is irrelevant as regards the general concept of ring fencing.

None of which applies to this case!

In plain language:
The OP booked a holiday.
Covid19 strikes.
OP cancels holiday without consulting company.
Company refuses in line with their T & C's to refund deposit.
Company does however offer a voucher for next year.

It doesn't matter whether the deposits are ring fenced or not. The OP didn't abide by his contract with the company.

If he had contacted them first and discussed this with them, or perhaps waited a week or two, he would probably got his deposit back. No he jumped the gun!

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8 hours ago, Traveller said:

That still does not detract from my belief that deposit monies should not be absorbed into the company in advance of the holiday.  Don't quite get the expenses argument - what expenses are there that are associated with a holiday that has been cancelled for whatever reason, other than perhaps small admin costs to register the booking. 

Expenses:
Wages, 
Tax, 
Council Tax,
Interest on loans,
Business insurance.
And probably lots more!!

8 hours ago, Traveller said:

Run my own business no. Controlled/carried out oversight of regulated businesses yes.

The expenses to which you refer are the ongoing expenses of the business and have nothing to do with a booked holiday, which is the result of the marketing effort. The fact that the boat cannot be rented to anyone else is relevant if the cancellation is down to the purchaser pulling out. Even then the boat might still be let out with a bit of good luck and therefore the business is making money out of someone else's misfortune. 

Utter rubbish!
 

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