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Welby1965

Fertan not drying

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8 minutes ago, blackrose said:

The clue is in the words "surface tolerant" . Prep should be good but it doesn't have to be perfect and what I've done is 10 times better than using vactan. I made the mistake of using that crap in my engine room and with the moisture the rust was back a year later.

I used "that crap" in my previously badly rusted engine room a couple of years ago, and it's still looking fine :)

 

 

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I am a welder fabricator  by trade and rust has always been a problem but i have never seen rust like i had in the bilge of my boat. I started scraping away and it came up in literally large pieces the size a dustpan about 1/2 a mm thick.

Dont think it has ever been treated since it was built 20 years ago.

So that's why i tried to get it back to solid steel and used a rust converter now rather than wait but i regret it now because it looks like it will take weeks to dry 😤

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2 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

I think you will be ok with the Fertan but it does need to be washed off with water. It will have reacted ok in 48 hrs.

The problem then is that you will really struggle to get the wet surface dry enough to paint, and if you do then the temp is too low to paint properly as you are always likely to be below the dew point uless the temp warms up a bit.

I doubt if Vactan will work any better as it is too cold for coating below 5°C.

 

Which perhaps is one of the reasons it didn't work on my engine room floor. It was summer but I suspect the water temp was at or below 5C.

22 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

I used "that crap" in my previously badly rusted engine room a couple of years ago, and it's still looking fine :)

 

 

Try using vactan and a single pack primer/topcoats in an area with standing water and see how long it lasts. If it worked in your case then that's great and that's all you need, but it's simply not the best system and that's why it's not used by most professional painters.

 

By the way, that wasn't originally my description of vactan. Early on in the project while we were working on prepping the bilges of Steatley we were visited by the head of technical of the Cutty Sark project. In my canal boat naiievity I suggested using vactan and he said "Don't use that crap." 

 

Streatley

unnamed.jpg

Edited by blackrose
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I had a lot of rust develop on the underside of my roof rails. I chipped off the worst and applied Vactan. It is still rust free after 3 years. It is out in the open and suffers the abuse of the weather. I'm quite happy with Vactan.

Edited by Old Son

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3 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Really? I haven't noticed you mention this before! 

 

:giggles::giggles::giggles:

 

 

 

Didn't you notice me mention it? Well in that case just for you Mike, in summary: I think vactan is crap and wouldn't use it

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7 hours ago, Chewbacka said:

But it’s rusty in the corners..........

never mind the corners - on my screen the quality of that photo is so good that I can see brown patches in the dips all over the place.

Fact is - there is little point in trying to do any painting other than emergency patching at this time of year.

 

Vactan will at least dry and provide a sealing primer that will keep the gremlins away until the temperature and humidity have improved so that a proper job can be done.

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28 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

never mind the corners - on my screen the quality of that photo is so good that I can see brown patches in the dips all over the place.

Fact is - there is little point in trying to do any painting other than emergency patching at this time of year.

 

 

I think I've said it several times but perhaps you missed it. The quality of the steel prep only has to be as good as the capacity of a surface tolerant epoxy to deal with that. There will always be a certain level of rust remaining and the brown patches you see is just flash rust which is well within the capacity of the paint to deal with. Have a look at the preparation instructions for Jotamastic 90 and you'll see it recommend a prep standard of ST 2.5 which the floor of that locker meets.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.hmgpaint.com/PDF/knowledge-base/KNB0026.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj2_qqygpfoAhXCUhUIHXazCjwQFjABegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw3O_topt7Ce7Y2axU137uL8

 

28 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

 

Vactan will at least dry and provide a sealing primer that will keep the gremlins away until the temperature and humidity have improved so that a proper job can be done.

A proper job being to get rid of all the vactan and rust use a decent epoxy?

Edited by blackrose

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9 hours ago, blackrose said:

 . Early on in the project while we were working on prepping the bilges of Steatley we were visited by the head of technical of the Cutty Sark project. In my canal boat naiievity I suggested using vactan and he said "Don't use that crap." 

 

 

 

It doesnt claim to work on burnt timber.

 

Edited by matty40s
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10 hours ago, blackrose said:

I

 

 

IMG_20180724_220905_965.jpg

 

A surface tolerant epoxy primer will go over that very nicely. I did not get my locker bottoms nearly as good as that in some places and 3 years on they still look perfect. I did the front well deck about 5 years ago and last year it started to fail in a couple of places with small very localised bubbling. This might have been due to less than perfect prep, or possibly bits of dirt/grit etc bridging the epoxy, or even impact damage. Its relatively easy to do repairs but obviously best done  when mixing epoxy for some other project. It was interesting to see that when I ground away the bubbled epoxy there was very little rust on the underlying steel.

 

and... about 8 year ago I did a bit of bilge in red Owatrol (CIP) with Danboline on top. The prep was removing loose rust but not going back to bare metal due to very limited access. That is just starting to fail now.

 

...............Dave

 

 

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I realise it probably isn't the easiest thing to do, down in a locker, but certainly on a deck, I would epoxy fill the pitting. This is to avoid puddling and trapping water.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Higgs said:

I realise it probably isn't the easiest thing to do, down in a locker, but certainly on a deck, I would epoxy fill the pitting. This is to avoid puddling and trapping water.

 

 

Epoxy is so good at handling standing water that there is no need for this, but it does tend to mostly fill the pits anyway.

 

My lockers get wet everytime we go through a very turbulent lock so they spend a lot of their time a bit wet.

 

................Dave

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58 minutes ago, dmr said:

Epoxy is so good at handling standing water that there is no need for this, but it does tend to mostly fill the pits anyway.

 

My lockers get wet everytime we go through a very turbulent lock so they spend a lot of their time a bit wet.

 

................Dave

 

My objective would be to avoid the reoccurrence of the problem that caused the rusting, if at all possible. The second objective would be to make something appear as good as new: This may not be a desirable effect, on an older more historic boat.  

 

 

Edited by Higgs

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8 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

My objective would be to avoid the reoccurrence of the problem that cased the rusting, if at all possible. The second objective would be to make something appear as good as new: This may not be a desirable effect, on an older more historic boat.  

 

 

The big plus for epoxy is that its virtually waterproof so recurrence of rusting should not occur. Ordinary paints are not fully waterproof and fail with standing water. Leave a bag of coal on the roof over winter (to trap water under it) and you will mot likely see a bit of paint bubbling by the spring.

 

And I am one of those sad types who tries to make my boat look a bit old rather than like new whenever I do any painting. 😀

 

.................Dave

 

 

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2 minutes ago, dmr said:

The big plus for epoxy is that its virtually waterproof so recurrence of rusting should not occur. Ordinary paints are not fully waterproof and fail with standing water. Leave a bag of coal on the roof over winter (to trap water under it) and you will mot likely see a bit of paint bubbling by the spring.

 

And I am one of those sad types who tries to make my boat look a bit old rather than like new whenever I do any painting. 😀

 

.................Dave

 

 

 

Paint needs to be kept ventilated, but epoxy is more robust. There's no harm in fashioning the paintwork to imitate older lines. It isn't always possible to get away with it, but..

 

 

 

 

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