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I de -rusted the base plate in in the next compartment on from the engine bilge and have treated it with fertan.

But the fertan is not drying and is still wet 36hrs after application.

I wondered if anyone could advise me what to do.

I have tried to dry it with a hot air gun at great distance so not to burn it but merely to dry it!

But no luck so far!!!!😤

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I reckon the water temperature at the moment is only 4 to 5 degrees or less, the base plate will be much the same.

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The site says leave for 48 hours in cold conditions, then rinse off as it will have done its stuff. How you do that in a bilge I'm not sure. I gave up on Fertan and use Vactan, which just converts the rust and primes.

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Assuming the boat is not out of the water then its difficult to do any sort of painting on the bsaeplate in the winter. Its a hefty lump of cold steel sitting on cold water. The heatgun might warm the surface of any paint (or Fertan) but the stuff below touching the steel will be cold.  Try again in a couple of months.

 

Even in summer expect a longer drying time than wot it says on the tin.

 

.............Dave

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53 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

The site says leave for 48 hours in cold conditions, then rinse off as it will have done its stuff. How you do that in a bilge I'm not sure. I gave up on Fertan and use Vactan, which just converts the rust and primes.

I wonder if it remains wet on the surface, and it’s the wet bit that gets rinsed off?

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7 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

I wonder if it remains wet on the surface, and it’s the wet bit that gets rinsed off?

 

I've a vague idea too there is something odd about Fertan along these lines, which is why I asked the OP if he had read the instructions.

 

 

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Read the instructions and followed them but like it has been suggested maybe it's just too cold for it to work properly.

I will leave it for another 24hrs and then gingerly rinse it off with a wet sponge and hope i don't muck it up 🤔

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I hate Fertan, such a faff to rinse it off afterwards. Vactan every time for me.

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It is too cold, the humidity in the boat along with the base plate temperature means it will take weeks to go off.....if it does.

Hopefully soon we will see some breezy, sunny dry days, get some windows hatches open and air movement down there.

Then rinse off.

Or wait

Or buy Vactan

 

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I am sure Fertan give a minimum application temperature, may be 10 plus degrees. It won't go off even after two weeks if the temperature is low and even if the Fretan is looks dry as soon as you damp it it goes all wet and gooey again. Best plan is wash off using plenty of old rags and water, let the result dry and see how it looks. I gave up using it on horizontal surfaces  because of the difficulty in washing it all off.

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Contact Fertan UK, and ask for their advice.

 

Bod

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7 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Ive a vague idea too there is something odd about Fertan along these lines, which is why I asked the OP if he had read the instructions.

 

Actually the instructions sy it can be used down to 1 degree C!

 

That really surprised me, but they do.

 

I hate the stuff., having once prepped some gunwales, followed the instructions, but then come back a few days later to find a new covering of rust.

 

After that I scrapped it, and only ever used Fertan or Kurust, which actually seem t work.  I  would not use either of these on a baseplate at this time of year, though - almost doomed to failure I would have thought.

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You will do well to even dry your washing in the UK at present.

Your baseplate will get condensation on it if you even breath near it.

Another vote for Vactan but even that will struggle at low temperatures, it is as with Fertan a chemical reaction with the ferrous oxide which needs a warmer dryer environment.

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On 10/03/2020 at 22:40, Welby1965 said:

I de -rusted the base plate in in the next compartment on from the engine bilge and have treated it with fertan.

But the fertan is not drying and is still wet 36hrs after application.

I wondered if anyone could advise me what to do.

 

 

My advice is don't use Fertan, Vactan or any other rust converter. Get rid of the rust properly and it won't need a rust converter.

On 11/03/2020 at 10:47, Murflynn said:

 

but my choice is always Vactan, 'cos as others have pointed out, it forms an acrylic primer protecting the treated steel. 

 

That's what I used to think too, but after using Vactan a few times I decided it was rubbish. That acrylic primer doesn't seem to last very long at all and gets lifted by condensation & moisture. I might be wrong but I don't think many professional painters use Vactan?

 

Get rid of all the rust mechanically and use several coats of a good surface tolerant two-pack epoxy. It will outlast any rust converted/painted steel surface by many years.

 

 

Edited by blackrose

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44 minutes ago, blackrose said:

My advice is don't use Fertan, Vactan or any other rust converter. Get rid of the rust properly and it won't need a rust converter.

So, if like me, you had a 1930s boat that still had 1930s bits on that are now deeply pitted with rust, forming irregular pits, what technique would you use on all areas to "get rid of rust properly"?

 

I have never found any kind of wire brush, manual or mechanical, can ever do it to the point that you can realistically call it "rust free".

I also don't buy the argument, (not that you are making it, I accept), that provided you fully cover such areas with good layers of primer and paint that the rust will be contained and not reappear because moisture can't get to it.  In my experience such areas always fail quickly again, which is why I resort to Vactan, Kurust or similar, (but never any more Fertan, which I consider worse than useless).

For clarity the areas involved are too small to shot blast (!), and I don't have easy access to needle guns or similar.

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2 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

So, if like me, you had a 1930s boat that still had 1930s bits on that are now deeply pitted with rust, forming irregular pits, what technique would you use on all areas to "get rid of rust properly"?

 

I have never found any kind of wire brush, manual or mechanical, can ever do it to the point that you can realistically call it "rust free".

I also don't buy the argument, (not that you are making it, I accept), that provided you fully cover such areas with good layers of primer and paint that the rust will be contained and not reappear because moisture can't get to it.  In my experience such areas always fail quickly again, which is why I resort to Vactan, Kurust or similar, (but never any more Fertan, which I consider worse than useless).

For clarity the areas involved are too small to shot blast (!), and I don't have easy access to needle guns or similar.

As you have two old boats then a needle gun would be a really good thing to get. The gun itself is cheap, obtaining, moving and storing a suitable air compressor is the challenge. Could you share one with a group of fellow moorers? A compressor in a shed and a long air line is an option. 

 

The yard where we get our blacking done lets me use their needle gun but this only happens once every three years or so so is not ideal. A couple of years ago I rented their wet dock for a week, partly to get access to the needle gun.

 

................Dave

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Vactan also does not like the cold, minimum temperature for it to work is 5 deg C.

It even has a new message in each box to let you know how to use it at this time of year.

20200311_104939.jpg

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I think you will be ok with the Fertan but it does need to be washed off with water. It will have reacted ok in 48 hrs.

The problem then is that you will really struggle to get the wet surface dry enough to paint, and if you do then the temp is too low to paint properly as you are always likely to be below the dew point uless the temp warms up a bit.

I doubt if Vactan will work any better as it is too cold for coating below 5°C.

I actually like fertan as it is lower viscosity to Vactan so I think it wets the rust better. You then coat with a primer that is designed as a primer rather than a compromise rust treatment/primer. The only snag is the need to wash and dry which means Fertan takes an extra day and you do need reasonable access. I've had good success with Fertan over the last 3 years but it takes time.

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10 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

So, if like me, you had a 1930s boat that still had 1930s bits on that are now deeply pitted with rust, forming irregular pits, what technique would you use on all areas to "get rid of rust properly"?

 

I have never found any kind of wire brush, manual or mechanical, can ever do it to the point that you can realistically call it "rust free".

I also don't buy the argument, (not that you are making it, I accept), that provided you fully cover such areas with good layers of primer and paint that the rust will be contained and not reappear because moisture can't get to it.  In my experience such areas always fail quickly again, which is why I resort to Vactan, Kurust or similar, (but never any more Fertan, which I consider worse than useless).

For clarity the areas involved are too small to shot blast (!), and I don't have easy access to needle guns or similar.

I have used wire wheels on angle grinders while working at a yard to remove the rust from the bilges of two different 1890s rivetted steel Thames steam boats. We would have used needle guns but the steel was a bit thin for that. Nothing will ever be completely rust free at a microscopic level but it only needs to be prepped to a standard for a surface tolerant paint system.

 

I suspect you've never done any proper steel preparation Alan and given what you've said never used two pack epoxy paints either. If you're happy with the way you're doing it that's fine but you'll have to take it from me it's not the best method and I did it for a living for two years.

 

It's not a 1930s boat but this is the base of a badly pitted locker that had standing water in it for about 12 years in my boat, prepped with an angle grinder and wire wheel. Corners done with welder's chipping hammer and wire brushes. It's all down to how much elbow grease you put in, and how much dirt and dust you are prepared to tolerate.

 

IMG_20180724_220905_965.jpg

Edited by blackrose
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2 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I have used wire wheels on an angle grinder while working at a yard to remove the rust from two different 1890s rivetted steel Thames steam boats. We would have used needle guns but the steel was a bit thin for that. Nothing will ever be completely rust free but it only needs to be prepped to a standard for a surface tolerant paint system. I suspect you've never done any proper steel preparation Alan and given what you've said never used two pack epoxy paints either. If you're happy with the way you're doing it that's fine but you'll have to take it from me it's not the best method and I did it for a living for two years.

 

It's not a 1930s boat but this is the base of a badly pitted locker that had standing water in it for about 12 years in my boat, prepped with an angle grinder and wire wheel. Corners done with welders chipping hammer and wire brushes. It's all down to how much elbow grease you put in, and how much dirt and dust you are prepared to tolerate.

 

IMG_20180724_220905_965.jpg

But it’s rusty in the corners..........

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7 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

But it’s rusty in the corners..........

Corners are always difficult, but it's not rusty enough to stop the paint working or for the rust to come back a year later with half a cm of standing water in the bottom of the locker.

 

The clue is in the words "surface tolerant" . Prep should be good but it doesn't have to be perfect and what I've done is 10 times better than using vactan. I made the mistake of using that crap in my engine room and with the moisture the rust was back a year later.

Edited by blackrose

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