private mooring fees?

[Stilllearning]

As entertaining as ever, but with added rudeness. Do have a lovely day.

[Victor Vectis]

On 13/03/2020 at 18:38, Higgs said:

I'm sorry to be blunt but, is that clear?

 

 

Well if you'll be Blunt, I'll be Philby and he can be Maclean.

 

?

[WotEver]

3 hours ago, Victor Vectis said:

Well if you'll be Blunt, I'll be Philby and he can be Maclean.

 

?

Can I be Christine?

[Victor Vectis]

Unashamedly lifted from 'The High Life' a wonderful 1990s TV comedy.

Gag at 0:21 in this trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP6WkkU26iA

[WotEver]

22 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Hook, Line and sinker

Tee hee

[tree monkey]

13 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Can I be Christine?

In this day and age you can be anything you want, I do think you're brave for sharing your deepest fantasies on the forum

 

[Arthur Marshall]

10 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

What, moral, ethical and philosophical point of view can condone forcing people to have something they don't need? Aren't required to have, even by law.

None, but they still do. When I started work, i got paid in cash. Then was forced to open a bank account as employers were instructed by government to stop such payment. Plenty of other examples. In order for the Revenue to pay my rebate into my account instantly I have to have a passport, as I haven't, it takes 3 months to get a cheque. Morality and ethics have absolutely nothing to do with contract law, or what one person or business can do to another, which is probably lucky, really, as no two people have the same code. Contract law, interestingly (or at least I think it's interesting) is the last remnant of the feudal system which it is based on, so it's simply what the person higher up the food chain CAN do, nowt to do with should or ought.

[Higgs]

10 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

None, but they still do. When I started work, i got paid in cash. Then was forced to open a bank account as employers were instructed by government to stop such payment. Plenty of other examples. In order for the Revenue to pay my rebate into my account instantly I have to have a passport, as I haven't, it takes 3 months to get a cheque. Morality and ethics have absolutely nothing to do with contract law, or what one person or business can do to another, which is probably lucky, really, as no two people have the same code. Contract law, interestingly (or at least I think it's interesting) is the last remnant of the feudal system which it is based on, so it's simply what the person higher up the food chain CAN do, nowt to do with should or ought.

 

I'm going to compile all the types of objections and my responses. I have a fair bit of free time now, and I've not done. Here has been important, in so far as it has demonstrated the attitudes and the lengths people will go to in support of the cavalier treatment of boaters. 

 

Enough said.

 

 

[David Mack]

6 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

 

I think I've alluded to the conditions laid down in contract. The marina can write its terms and conditions. It can't, however, make up the law requiring a boat licence, and neither can CRT. That's also a reality.

 

Law defines where the licence is a legal necessity. The laws governing the use of a licence are not defined in the contract the marina has with CRT. The conditions of the contract are laid down in the contract. A marina can determine what its requirements are. Nothing I've said suggests they can't. All I'm saying is - boaters are not actually committing an offence against CRT, by not having a licence in a marina. Boaters are only legally obliged to have a licence that's use is specific to a particular waterway, and only when on that waterway.

 

Marinas write into their' T&Cs the requirement of a licence. They could also quite accurately write that - "they have no statutory powers of enforcement, and even though we know this and CRT know this, we have to satisfy the terms of our contract with CRT."  The law pertaining to the use of a licence has become almost academic.

 

Except, it isn't academic. It isn't, for those who are forced to comply with a condition of a marina, and not a condition of the law that requires a boat licence., for which a licence is intended - as evidence to the compliance of a law.  

 

Yes, as has been said countless times in this and other threads, what you have written above is indeed the case. As far as any moorer in a marina subject to a Network Access Agreement is concerned, the requirement to have a CRT licence is indeed a condition of the marina, and not dependent on statute law. This arrangement suits most marina moorers (who need the licence for statutory reasons anyway if they are to venture out of the marina), for the marina operator and for CRT (since it removes an obvious source of unlicenced boaters venturing out onto CRT's waterways).

If it offends you, you can always moor in a non NAA marina on a CRT canal, or on a river where CRT is the navigation authority, but not owner of the river bed (and the NAA is not applicable) or on a non-CRT waterway, or indeed keep your boat out of the water when not in use. But you will still need a CRT licence when boating on CRT canals and rivers.

[Higgs]

10 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

Yes, as has been said countless times in this and other threads, what you have written above is indeed the case. As far as any moorer in a marina subject to a Network Access Agreement is concerned, the requirement to have a CRT licence is indeed a condition of the marina, and not dependent on statute law. This arrangement suits most marina moorers (who need the licence for statutory reasons anyway if they are to venture out of the marina), for the marina operator and for CRT (since it removes an obvious source of unlicenced boaters venturing out onto CRT's waterways).

If it offends you, you can always moor in a non NAA marina on a CRT canal, or on a river where CRT is the navigation authority, but not owner of the river bed (and the NAA is not applicable) or on a non-CRT waterway, or indeed keep your boat out of the water when not in use. But you will still need a CRT licence when boating on CRT canals and rivers.

 

When I first put forward my opinions on the subject, some years ago, I had great difficulty then, even to get points accepted that are now accepted. In what you have written, it is obvious that principles have been accepted, but the principles are not important to you and some others. In fact, the principle of law is being disregarded by you, as far as where a licence is legally required.

 

I don't think you can support your view that the arrangement suits most marina moorers. Most marina moorers probably think, as I used to, that having a licence in a marina is their' compliance with the statutory law requiring a licence. In a marina, it is not required as a legal necessity of statutory requirement.

 

Your point then that the NAA's contract clause,  which requires the marina to act as a third party agent, a device to remove the likelihood of unlicensed boats is, therefore, a non-point. Boat licences are not required on private property. It is neither my fault that CRT do not employ the lenghtsmen/women that would adequately perform the task of checking for licences out on the cut, where a boat licence is needed.

 

If this discussion continues, assume I don't have a boat. It makes no difference to the bearing of the requirement of a licence where no licence is necessary.

 

Do you prefer to choose the laws that suit you?

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Higgs

[Jim Riley]

10 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

 

 

Enough said.

 

 

Ah, a point we can all agree on. Time to close the thread on a high note? perhaps when you compile all our replies you will understand.

[Higgs]

4 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

Ah, a point we can all agree on. Time to close the thread on a high note? perhaps when you compile all our replies you will understand.

 

Is it the organ grinder's day off?

 

 

[Jim Riley]

37 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

Is it the organ grinder's day off?

 

 

Haha, well tried. ? I'm not a monkey but a Fool, whose job is to poke fun at those who wish to be King. Your robes, while you perceive them as shiny and sparkling, are somewhat transparent. I see it's a bit frosty out today. ????

[Higgs]

8 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

Haha, well tried. ? I'm not a monkey but a Fool, whose job is to poke fun at those who wish to be King. Your robes, while you perceive them as shiny and sparkling, are somewhat transparent. I see it's a bit frosty out today. ????

 

I see , by your new avatar, that you are losing it.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Higgs

[Jim Riley]

8 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

I see , by your new avatar, that you are losing it.

 

 

Avatars of our great leader Boris are popular, didn't  you know. I'm just following the fashion. Anyway, what's the problem with this licence in marina thing? I'm still don't see one, can you clarify? 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Jim Riley

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

Avatars of our great leader Boris are popular, didn't  you know. I'm just following the fashion. Anyway, what's the problem with this licence in marina thing? I'm still don't see one, can you clarify? 

 

Same here. 

 

Far more heat than light. I really don't understand why all the conflict, given we all seem to agree about the technical details and facts.

 

 

[Higgs]

4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Same here. 

 

Far more heat than light. I really don't understand why all the conflict, given we all seem to agree about the technical details and facts.

 

 

 

You just can't decide which legal position to follow. I understand that laws are created in parliament, not the marina.

 

 

 

 

[Jim Riley]

6 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

You just can't decide which legal position to follow. I understand that laws are created in parliament, not the marina.

 

 

 

 

 

You just can't decide which legal position to follow. I understand that contracts are created in marinas, not the parliament. 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Jim Riley

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

You just can't decide which legal position to follow. I understand that laws are created in parliament, not the marina.

 

 

 

 

 

Can you precis your case then, so I can perhaps get to understand it please?

 

Saying things like above doesn't really enlighten me. 

 

 

[Higgs]

 

1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Can you precis your case then, so I can perhaps get to understand it please?

 

Saying things like above doesn't really enlighten me. 

 

 

 

The principles have been discussed.

 

 

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

 

The principles have been discussed.

 

 

 

I didn't think you'd be able to.

 

Never mind. Your reply tells me your case doesn't make sense, as you can't explain it succinctly.

 

 

 

 

[Higgs]

11 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I didn't think you'd be able to.

 

Never mind. Your reply tells me your case doesn't make sense, as you can't explain it succinctly.

 

 

You're right. You've tried, but have never got your head around the fact that a licence isn't required in certain places. And that, a contract can somehow undermine what the law requires to serve its purpose.

 

The principle you forward is - a business contract has primacy over actual law governing the requirement of a licence.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Higgs

[Jim Riley]

11 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

You're right. You've tried, but have never got your head around the fact that a licence isn't required in certain places. And that, a contract can somehow undermine what the law requires to serve its purpose.

 

The principle you forward is - a business contract has primacy over actual law governing the requirement of a licence.

 

 

 

 

No, it doesn't. You are conflating 2 different issues. The act and the contract. Without the act the contract couldn't demand that the act is fulfilled. 

I do hope you don't get varroa. It's such good sport. Bee Baiting. 

[Higgs]

8 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

No, it doesn't. You are conflating 2 different issues. The act and the contract. Without the act the contract couldn't demand that the act is fulfilled. 

I do hope you don't get varroa. It's such good sport. Bee Baiting. 

 

You'll have to decide whether what the contract calls for is in variance with what the major law has the power to enforce. The 'major' law, the statutory powers, have no power to effect enforcement in the marina. If it hasn't got the power, the marina certainly has none, save its T&Cs, which could amount to anything, but not statutory law requiring a licence.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Higgs

[Jim Riley]

4 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

You'll have to decide whether what the contract calls for is in variance to what the major law has the power to enforce. The 'major' law, the statutory powers, have no power to effect enforcement in the marina. If it hasn't got the power, the marina certainly has none, save its T&Cs, which could amount to anything, but not statutory law requiring a licence.

 

 

 

 

I have and it doesn't conflict. 

Perhaps you should set up a poll, democratically bring the issue to a close?