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mark99

ID Boat London 1958

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Small Woolwich with original timber back cabin, but flat-topped BW style pigeon box.  Plain painted without any visible identification, so perhaps part way through a repaint. Plain black parallel stove pipe and what looks like a watering can in place of a 'Buckby' can. No engine funnel visible, so can't tell whether it is in the original position.

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Rivetted hull , looks like a small Woolwich to me.

2 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Small Woolwich with original timber back cabin, but flat-topped BW style pigeon box.  Plain painted without any visible identification, so perhaps part way through a repaint. Plain black parallel stove pipe and what looks like a watering can in place of a 'Buckby' can. No engine funnel visible, so can't tell whether it is in the original position.

Beat me to it !

 

 

Edited by David Schweizer

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What do we know about the picture, and, specifically, how do we know it is 1958.

To me it doesn't have the feel of a working boat family, and it feels like it is a boat disposed from the fleet about to start life as another purpose.

However I don't think that things like Hillingdon Narrowboat Project date back to 1958, and I'm not sure camping boats were a thing then, and anyway this can't be Pisces, as it's a Woolwich not a Northwich boat.

 

Someone will know, but I don't!

The first picture does show a typical tying up arrangement for a modern London live-aboard!

Edited by alan_fincher

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22 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Small Woolwich with original timber back cabin, but flat-topped BW style pigeon box.  Plain painted without any visible identification, so perhaps part way through a repaint. Plain black parallel stove pipe and what looks like a watering can in place of a 'Buckby' can. No engine funnel visible, so can't tell whether it is in the original position.

Is it a watering can, or is it perhaps a large can of paint with a brush handle stuck upwards out of it.

I can almost imagine that the person at the lead end of the engine room has a paintbrush in their hand, but perhaps not?

I think the boat might be getting an amateur repaint, in which case it is presumably no longer in BW ownership?

No idea about any candidate boat disposed of as early as 1958 though.

If it is that early, and sold off, I doubt it is one that has received a new Petter to replace an old National or RN, as that work was surely going on about that time, and BW would be unlikey to be disposing of one that had been thus upgraded?

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51 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Is it a watering can, or is it perhaps a large can of paint with a brush handle stuck upwards out of it.

I can almost imagine that the person at the lead end of the engine room has a paintbrush in their hand, but perhaps not?

 

Good call!

I've just magnified the second picture as far as my computer will allow. The can does appear to have some sort of markings on it, but they don't look like roses and castes etc., so perhaps the brand name of a paint company?

In addition, the postures of all the people in that second picture suggest work: rubbing down and painting?

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London towpath ‘restoration ‘  50 years early..... Boat looks very original but then only 23 years young or so.

Early fleet disposal of composite small boat?

Bow suggests had worked pretty hard

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4 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

What do we know about the picture, and, specifically, how do we know it is 1958.

To me it doesn't have the feel of a working boat family, and it feels like it is a boat disposed from the fleet about to start life as another purpose.

However I don't think that things like Hillingdon Narrowboat Project date back to 1958, and I'm not sure camping boats were a thing then, and anyway this can't be Pisces, as it's a Woolwich not a Northwich boat.

 

Someone will know, but I don't!

The first picture does show a typical tying up arrangement for a modern London live-aboard!

You are correct Alan. The fore runner to the present Hillingdon Narrowboat Project started in 1996, but they only had one boat, Pisces which was a Small Northwich, and was previously a BW trip boat , working under the name Water Sprite.

 

Below is a rather blurred photo of Pisces on it's Uxbridge mooring in 1966.

 

533568383_Uxbridge1966(2).png.bdd68cf32067eb0fc99e532d4000c02d.png

 

 

Edited by David Schweizer

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With its original funnel! I didn't know that those existed until I saw a couple at Alvecote a few years back. The owner of one of the funnelled boats told me that they were rare because boatmen didn't like them and kept "accidentally" dropping them overboard.

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38 minutes ago, Athy said:

With its original funnel! I didn't know that those existed until I saw a couple at Alvecote a few years back. The owner of one of the funnelled boats told me that they were rare because boatmen didn't like them and kept "accidentally" dropping them overboard.

I think you are confusing the funnels that the GUCCCo fitted to the boats from new, (and through which the exhaust did actually pass), with the fake funnels fitted to the London trip boats, (which were actually I believe the container for the Calor Gas cylinder).

You will have seen the former at Alvecote, (on Darley,possibly?), but I very much doubt you will have seen the latter.

A modified version of the trip boat "funnel" did survive on Corolla, (which was one of the London trip boats), in Keith Ball's Industry Narrowboats yard until relatively recently.  However Corolla has now been fully restored to working trim, without such a monstrosity.

 

DSCF3920.JPG

 

P1010986.JPG

Edited by alan_fincher
  • Greenie 1

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Yes Alan, I probably am, as I had not heard of these Calor-gas "funnels" before, so thanks for the information. 'Darley' sounds likely, yes.

The one which you illustrate looks like a derelict air-conditioning system!

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10 minutes ago, Athy said:

Yes Alan, I probably am, as I had not heard of these Calor-gas "funnels" before, so thanks for the information. 'Darley' sounds likely, yes.

The one which you illustrate looks like a derelict air-conditioning system!

Yes, I don't know the history of why it has acquired that mesh front.  Not how they wee originally. 

Here's an example on a Water Bus

 

0ca8e8daa744d69ec5e70def0687dddd.jpg

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43 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

I think you are confusing the funnels that the GUCCCo fitted to the boats from new, (and through which the exhaust did actually pass), with the fake funnels fitted to the London trip boats, (which were actually I believe the container for the Calor Gas cylinder).

You will have seen the former at Alvecote, (on Darley,possibly?), but I very much doubt you will have seen the latter.

A modified version of the trip boat "funnel" did survive on Corolla, (which was one of the London trip boats), in Keith Ball's Industry Narrowboats yard until relatively recently.  However Corolla has now been fully restored to working trim, without such a monstrosity.
 

I am pretty sure that the Fake Funnels were fitted to all the Water Buses, not just the London ones, Pisces was located in the Midlands and had one.. You are correct that they were installed to accomodate a Calor Gas bottle, apparently outside because the person in charge of the trip boat fleet did not like the idea of gas cyliders inside a boat full of people. But like the original GUCC exhaust funnels, the one on Pisces was also an object of ridicule amongst workng boatmen, and was  a significant impairment under low bridges . It was removed as soon as we were able to provide a gas cabinet inside the boat.

 

Me steering Pisces in 1968 , under the Motorway bridge at Gravelly Hill :-

 

1352783063_GravelleyHillbridgeAug1968.jpg.fae94ee892a98ae125373bf8cf3efd28.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by David Schweizer

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To give some idea of timeframe, the originally quoted date for this photo of 1958, is surely about the time that these Water Bus boats were being created out of ex working boats.  Also I think about the time that BW were trashing lots of redundant boats in Harefield Flash.

Well before dates I have much knowledge of, but if it is 1958, and I'm right that the boat is no longer BW owned, I can't imagine there are many candidate "Small Woolwich" boats to have been disposed of that early.

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22 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

 

 

To give some idea of timeframe, the originally quoted date for this photo of 1958, is surely about the time that these Water Bus boats were being created out of ex working boats.  Also I think about the time that BW were trashing lots of redundant boats in Harefield Flash.

Well before dates I have much knowledge of, but if it is 1958, and I'm right that the boat is no longer BW owned, I can't imagine there are many candidate "Small Woolwich" boats to have been disposed of that early.

 

Yes. Following a period of storage at Tardebigge after being de-comissioned as a London Fire boat, Pisces was converted into a Water Bus at Ocker Hill during the first half of 1957 and re named Water Sprite in 1958.

 

 

Edited by David Schweizer

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1 hour ago, ChimneyChain said:

Are these photographs or stills from a film Mark ? 

 

Darren 

 

I don't know about the photo posted by Mark, but the 1968 photo of Pisces has been "borrowed" from a short film.

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6 hours ago, mark99 said:

Tough one....?

 

 

 

Capture.JPG

 

Looking closely at the photo, the man standing in front of the engine room bears a striking resemblence to a young Trevor Maggs, and Corona is a Small Woolwich. However, I believe Trevor bought it in 1968, so unless the date has been transcribed incorrectly, it cannot be Corona.

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4 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

 

Looking closely at the photo, the man standing in front of the engine room bears a striking resemblence to a young Trevor Maggs, and Corona is a Small Woolwich. However, I believe Trevor bought it in 1968, so unless the date has been transcribed incorrectly, it cannot be Corona.

I think that 'Corona' and 'Corolla' are different boats.

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40 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

 

 

To give some idea of timeframe, the originally quoted date for this photo of 1958, is surely about the time that these Water Bus boats were being created out of ex working boats.  Also I think about the time that BW were trashing lots of redundant boats in Harefield Flash.

Well before dates I have much knowledge of, but if it is 1958, and I'm right that the boat is no longer BW owned, I can't imagine there are many candidate "Small Woolwich" boats to have been disposed of that early.

I'm sure Pete can tell us when eg Arthur Goddard had the Callisto…….

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1 hour ago, Athy said:

I think that 'Corona' and 'Corolla' are different boats.

Well, yes I am aware of that, but am not sure what point you are trying to make. The boat owned by Trevor Maggs was Corona, not Corolla, which was also a small Woolwich built at the same time as Corona with fleet numbers 31 and 32 respectively. it was converted into a Water bus in 1958 named Water Wagtail, and has since been owned by several people.  Corona was transferred into the maintenance fleet after the war, and was later owned by a school in Rugby. Trevor Maggs bought it in 1968 and owned it from then until his sad departure last year.

 

 

Edited by David Schweizer

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The images look like a film of children with a working boat. Was there such a 'Famous Five' style film made in the fifties or early sixties?

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Deffo a paint-brush.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Capture.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

 

Capture2.JPG

Edited by mark99

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If it helps, the rear counter looks like wood inlay and the engine room looks closed/sealed from the back cabin with a riveted bulkhead, there is a little pressure gauge on the roof, the stove works in back cabin and there is a huge speedwheel/gearwheel on the right hand side of the hatch. There is a crossbed.

 

 

 

 

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