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Leaking skylight

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14 hours ago, Mike Jordan said:

The design shown in the photos is taken from my book "Narrow Boat & Dutch Barge Joinery Designs" and very unlikely to leak if properly made with flush glazing.

I followed your design slavishly ;)

 

And it doesn’t leak. 
 

There was a suggestion that the adhesive on the window spacers might not be UV stable and it would therefore be advisable to apply a vinyl surround to the glass. Do you have any opinion on that Mike?

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I'm not sure I undersand that, is the claim that the spacers or adhesive will be affected by sunlight? I've certainly not heard of any problems, and bearing in mind that even in a rebate they are subjected to uv regularly I don't expect problems. Some of the deck lights have now been in use for more than ten years without anyone making comment.

Mike.

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That was me who made the suggestion about the UV. On conservatory rooves sealed units are sometimes made as a stepped unit where the top pane overhangs the bottom edge to form the drip. In these cases the spacer bar will be a few inches up from the bottom and not covered by an end closure as it would be with a standard unit or polycarbonate. The suppliers I've used have covered the spacer bar and sealing compound with sign-writer's vinyl to protect from UV. I understand that some high end companies have the glass painted prior to making the units, similar to the black edging around a car windscreen (which may perform the same purpose). 

 

The problem is apparently with the sealing compound but it might be that technology has moved on and the UV protection is no longer required. 

Edited by stegra
Missing apostrophe

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These things can be awkward. The hinged joint will leak unless you either cover it or try to collect the water and drain it away. I use a 3" wide rubber strip over the hinged joints then fix a capping piece over the rubber to hide it. The glazed leaves will leak unless they overhang all edges  and have a small groove routed into the underside to form a 'drip' to prevent water creeping underneath. Don't sit them straight on the roof, they will rot. I make them with nicely detailed glazed frames and then double glaze them by fixing a piece of Perspex over the whole frame with double sided foam tape. Mine have started to give problems after 12 years which I think is OK and are simple to build and repair. Sorry, can't make any for anyone, too busy!

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The sealant used on the units I have used in the past fifteen years have been the hot melt type. No failures have been reported to date. I don't consider Perspex to be a suitable material for use in double glazing in any circumstances.

I have seen a lot of different ways of making dog boxes and deck lights, some rely on plastic and rubber seals and even plastic piipes to drain the water. The design I have published in the photo gallery is, I believe, the most suitable, it relies on quality joinery. That means dovetails at at the corners of the box together with mortise and tenon joints on the frames and drips and drainage channels to remove the water.

The box has an internal rebate at the base so that it can sit on top of the metal coaming with a 10mm gap between the box and boat roof avoid trapping water in the joint

 

 

Edited by Mike Jordan

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Perspex has one advantage over glass for roof lights that I can think of and that is that if you trip or slip on the roof you can't put your hand through it, apart from that I would agree that it is horrid stuff and I would only use it in special cases where safety is an issue.

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18 hours ago, Bee said:

These things can be awkward. The hinged joint will leak unless you either cover it or try to collect the water and drain it away. I use a 3" wide rubber strip over the hinged joints then fix a capping piece over the rubber to hide it. The glazed leaves will leak unless they overhang all edges  and have a small groove routed into the underside to form a 'drip' to prevent water creeping underneath. Don't sit them straight on the roof, they will rot. I make them with nicely detailed glazed frames and then double glaze them by fixing a piece of Perspex over the whole frame with double sided foam tape. Mine have started to give problems after 12 years which I think is OK and are simple to build and repair. Sorry, can't make any for anyone, too busy!

Which is why I used these, my skill level is not that of Mike's. I also have a gap between the metal upstand of the roof and the wooden box

Capture.JPG

Edited by ditchcrawler

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21 hours ago, Mike Jordan said:

 

I have seen a lot of different ways of making dog boxes and deck lights, some rely on plastic and rubber seals and even plastic piipes to drain the water. The design I have published in the photo gallery is, I believe, the most suitable, it relies on quality joinery. That means dovetails at at the corners of the box together with mortise and tenon joints on the frames and drips and drainage channels to remove the water.

 

 

It looks as if you use a wooden drainage channel under the hinge line. Since this will be almost horizontal on most boats, I would have though that water finding its way into the drainage channel will tend to stay there, which can't be good for the wood or or for whatever oil/varnish finish you have used.

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As you say in a few instances the gutter may be nearly level, but the boat is constantly moving, the gutter is nice and wide with open ends which promotes air movement to dry it. It only takes a few millimetres to make the gutter drain so I don't think the timber is any more at risk than any other external joinery. My favoured hardwood for the job is Iroko, its second only to teak for durability and has a life expectancy of about thirty years in this type of use. The flush glazing means that there are no beads to suffer from water ingress. I am always surprised to see doors and cratch boards with external beading without even the 9 degree weather slope expected in soundly made joinery.

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On 27/09/2019 at 19:59, WotEver said:

Sure, but the price you quoted would be pretty close, depending on size and fittings (brass v stainless). 

For three and a half grand I'd want one that shuts - I have seen that picture a few times and it never seems to close weathertight!  :P :icecream:

 

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1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

For three and a half grand I'd want one that shuts - I have seen that picture a few times and it never seems to close weathertight!  :P :icecream:

:P

D7B8D939-D0AF-4DBD-9B82-BAE64C08AFE3.jpeg.57556795f3264f2c279f6eae36c911c9.jpeg

 

Edited by WotEver
Removed an image of a pretty engine that shouldn’t have been there...

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1 minute ago, stegra said:

Pretty engine still seems to be there. 

You should have seen the rest of that Mini. Absolutely stunning throughout. 

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On 16/09/2019 at 22:31, Phil Ambrose said:

I double glazed mine by simply fitting secondary glazing a piece of clear acrylic with a strip of draught proofing around the edge.  The panel is held in place with swivel clips

So I borrowed with pride (AKA nicked) this design idea, and did the same to mine today.  Let’s hope the autumn morning drips now stop!

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On 16/09/2019 at 22:31, Phil Ambrose said:

Yup Houdini hatches rain on you during colder months. I double glazed mine by simply fitting secondary glazing a piece of clear acrylic with a strip of draught proofing around the edge.  The panel is held in place with swivel clips . I take them down and put them behind the sofa when they are not needed.

Phil

I have seen you mention your cure elsewhere and wondered if you might be able to share a photo of how they fit? I think we would struggle to do this with ours

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Lmimage.jpeg.837dac5c085a32a713d3396503357f0a.jpegimage.jpeg.c875573a55d4673eb456256a7804aa06.jpeg.

I was about to post an easier method of dovetailing the corners of the deck lights but I was interrupted and failed to complete the post. I couldn't remember exactly how it went so I made a model with two bits of scrap timber.

The missing bit of the top edge is where I tested a cutter shape. In the event of me making another deck light I intend to try this out. It's simple enough and easy to do, but hard to get my head round without the model to hand.

Mike.

 

Edited by Mike Jordan
Earlier failure

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59 minutes ago, Mike Jordan said:

Lmimage.jpeg.837dac5c085a32a713d3396503357f0a.jpegimage.jpeg.c875573a55d4673eb456256a7804aa06.jpeg.

I was about to post an easier method of dovetailing the corners of the deck lights but I was interrupted and failed to complete the post. I couldn't remember exactly how it went so I made a model with two bits of scrap timber.

The missing bit of the top edge is where I tested a cutter shape. In the event of me making another deck light I intend to try this out. It's simple enough and easy to do, but hard to get my head round without the model to hand.

Mike.

 

Interesting :)

 

I’m trying to decide what you’d call that. A lapped dovetail?

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That's the name used for the type used on a drawer front so that the ends of the tails are covered and not visible from the front.

The advantage is that it avoids the problems caused by dovetailing a rebated timber section. I've seen similar joints used for the same type of job but I have no idea of its proper name. I'm sure I've seen some with an angled shoulder which I think is for water checking the joint, again I can't remember where! 

Mike.

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54 minutes ago, Mike Jordan said:

That's the name used for the type used on a drawer front so that the ends of the tails are covered and not visible from the front.

I thought that was a half blind dovetail. 

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