Nightwatch Posted February 12, 2019 Report Share Posted February 12, 2019 A friend of mine has just purchased Seneca, a 1973 Janel Cruisers Narrowboat. It has the above engine. Sounds a good engine but smokes. I realise a lot of Listers smoke. Anything he ought to be aware of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 A smoky one could easily be sump oil contaminated with fuel oil due to cracked internal oil pipes, its a common problem. The copper gets brittle and cracks, they should be taken out and annealed regularly to prevent this. Ignoring it will destroy bearings and bores. What colour is the smoke? and when does it smoke? Blue all the time is worn pistons and rings/bores or fuel in the oil thinning it down. Black is overloaded engine or injectors out of adjustment. White is unburnt fuel due to misfires or retarded timing. Smoke on tick over in locks is common but should not be excessive, black smoke on full chat is normal until the engine reached full speed or the load is reduced. Heavy blue smoke after a long idling period when the throttle is cracked open is valve guides worn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 It's probably due some top end work, a decoke and injector service Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwatch Posted February 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 Thanks both. I'll pass this on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilllearning Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 Their boats were well maintained, docked every winter, engines redone regularly. Ask me how I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwatch Posted February 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 And, how do you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Stilllearning said: Their boats were well maintained, docked every winter, engines redone regularly. Ask me how I know. Who's boats are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilllearning Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 Just now, ditchcrawler said: Who's boats are? Jannel’s were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Stilllearning said: Jannel’s were. But did he buy it from them or has someone else owned it for 10 years and if he did buy it off them and its well maintained why is it smoking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilllearning Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 You need to ask the OP, but it seems very unlikely that he bought it from them as they sold it years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Stilllearning said: You need to ask the OP, but it seems very unlikely that he bought it from them as they sold it years ago. Thats what I thought, so it could well have been badly maintained for several years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwatch Posted February 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 The OP hasn't bought it. His friend has bought it from someone who had neglected it in their ownership. It a fibre glass top but looks okay. Houdini hatch has a leak but it's on the list of things to do item number 1327. The engine is ticking over as I type berthed next to us. Wisps of blackish smoke coming out of the exhaust but not loads. Sounds nice. Says to decoke it all you need is a bit of vim into the air inlet. I'm not convinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Brooks Posted February 14, 2019 Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 Just now, Nightwatch said: The OP hasn't bought it. His friend has bought it from someone who had neglected it in their ownership. It a fibre glass top but looks okay. Houdini hatch has a leak but it's on the list of things to do item number 1327. The engine is ticking over as I type berthed next to us. Wisps of blackish smoke coming out of the exhaust but not loads. Sounds nice. Says to decoke it all you need is a bit of vim into the air inlet. I'm not convinced. That old one - I thought that was supposed to de-glaze the bores and I am also not convinced. Sounds like bodgery of the first order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwatch Posted February 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 I agree. The previous owner ran the engine and the gearbox with no or very little oil. Mate says he'll put some stuff, forgot what it's called, in and that re-coats everything with metal-ish deposits. I asked if it's like redex and he said no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted February 14, 2019 Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said: That old one - I thought that was supposed to de-glaze the bores and I am also not convinced. Sounds like bodgery of the first order. A classic for getting new rings to bed in No effect on shot valve guides, dimpled rockers, blocked injector jets, carbon build up... Richard 1 minute ago, Nightwatch said: I agree. The previous owner ran the engine and the gearbox with no or very little oil. Mate says he'll put some stuff, forgot what it's called, in and that re-coats everything with metal-ish deposits. I asked if it's like redex and he said no. Snake oil 8 minutes ago, Nightwatch said: Wisps of blackish smoke coming out of the exhaust but not loads. In or out of gear? If it is gear and running hard, it might be the stop on the side where the stop lever is If it is idling out of gear, that's a poorly engine Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilllearning Posted February 14, 2019 Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 11 minutes ago, Nightwatch said: The OP hasn't bought it. His friend has bought it from someone who had neglected it in their ownership. It a fibre glass top but looks okay. Houdini hatch has a leak but it's on the list of things to do item number 1327. The engine is ticking over as I type berthed next to us. Wisps of blackish smoke coming out of the exhaust but not loads. Sounds nice. Says to decoke it all you need is a bit of vim into the air inlet. I'm not convinced. Is it one of the boats with the sliding centre roof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwatch Posted February 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Stilllearning said: Is it one of the boats with the sliding centre roof? Yes it is. 1973 I've been told. 2 hours ago, RLWP said: A classic for getting new rings to bed in No effect on shot valve guides, dimpled rockers, blocked injector jets, carbon build up... Richard Snake oil In or out of gear? If it is gear and running hard, it might be the stop on the side where the stop lever is If it is idling out of gear, that's a poorly engine Richard Thanks Richard. I'm not an engineer by any stretch of the imagination but thought snake oil might have been involved. The engine, was, idling out of gear. Turned off now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted February 15, 2019 Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, Nightwatch said: I agree. The previous owner ran the engine and the gearbox with no or very little oil. Mate says he'll put some stuff, forgot what it's called, in and that re-coats everything with metal-ish deposits. I asked if it's like redex and he said no. If these products are so good, how come the manufacturers of engines don't use them? We had a customer with a perfectly sound Mercedes engine in a Les Allen boat. Dosed it with "Molybdenum Disulphide" super snake oil additive and it was destroyed a month later. The only way to re-coat with metal is metal spraying, welding and re-machining. Metal-ish is a good non description ! Redex is just upper cylinder lubricant, er, oil. Useless in a diesel engine, it mucks up the cetane rating. Edited February 15, 2019 by Boater Sam added more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted February 15, 2019 Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 Diesel fuel system cleaner does work to a quite an extent. It will clean the injector pump and injector nozzles. I've made many engines miss firing with fouled, leaking injector nozzles run clean and missfire free again. The tip is to use it half neat 50/50. Remove engine fuel filter, tip out half of the fuel and pour in fuel cleaner, whack it back on sharpish, quick bleed and start up, run until running smooth and clean exhaust. It works in most cases. I've got many dirty diesel vehicles through the MOT with this treatment. Of course the odd one has been too bad for it to work and needing extra engine work or, timing or injector servicing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightwatch Posted February 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 The engine in question is running. There is no evidence of smoke, of any colour, exiting the exhaust. It does sound good. It may not be in idle, perhaps a fewrevs on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted February 15, 2019 Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Nightwatch said: The engine in question is running. There is no evidence of smoke, of any colour, exiting the exhaust. It does sound good. It may not be in idle, perhaps a fewrevs on. They like to be under load. Starting from cold or after left idling for sometime and hot it will smoke for a bit when put under load and should then clear with perhaps a very feint running blue haze. Black smoke will probably be emitted if the prop gets fouled or the throttle's whacked wide open suddenly. Edited February 15, 2019 by bizzard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain_S Posted February 15, 2019 Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 On 14/02/2019 at 13:19, Nightwatch said: (snip) The engine is ticking over as I type berthed next to us. Wisps of blackish smoke coming out of the exhaust but not loads. Sounds nice. Says to decoke it all you need is a bit of vim into the air inlet. I'm not convinced. Nah, for a de-coke you need brake fluid .... (NOT recommending this, BTW ! ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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