Athy Posted September 5, 2018 Report Share Posted September 5, 2018 1 minute ago, juragirl said: I understand thank you. Just think it would be odd for it to have been 5 all over and now be 3.1/3.2 all over - surely some bits would still be 5!!!!! Yes, that would be logical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juragirl Posted September 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2018 I also understand it can be hard to get insurance on less than 4mm hulls is that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted September 5, 2018 Report Share Posted September 5, 2018 30 minutes ago, juragirl said: I also understand it can be hard to get insurance on less than 4mm hulls is that right? See post number 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUMPY Posted September 5, 2018 Report Share Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) My old springer which is of that age was built from 3/16"steel which in new money is 4.8mm it was 43ft. Not sure if the shorter ones were 1/8" which is 3.2mm. Edited September 5, 2018 by Loddon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juragirl Posted September 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2018 18 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: See post number 3 have gone back and read that again thank you - as you say obviously someone insures them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted September 5, 2018 Report Share Posted September 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Athy said: Lest we forget, Sam Springer had Del-Boy tendencies, and if he spotted a deal, such as good steel going cheap, he'd probably go for it. I'm sure he would but that is not the way the scrap metal industry works. Scrap steel is processed and recycled in bulk, people don't go batching up random bits of gasometer and punting it around boat builders. If Sam had used it, here would have had to go out of his way to anticipate demolition of a gasometer and get in at the ground floor with an offer on the steel, and he'd probably have had to to the demolising too. Not very likely when he was rushed off his feet building new boats. I just don't buy this 'gasometer steel' thing. It doesn't make sense an this is not the first time I've asked on here if anyone can verify it. No-one has ever responded to my requests with any solid information (only vague speculation like yours), and we have some VERY knowledgable posters so if it was true I'd have expected a few people to have said so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUMPY Posted September 5, 2018 Report Share Posted September 5, 2018 Apparently it was only some of the very early ones not all of them http://canalrivertrustwaterfront.org.uk/heritage/a-thrifty-beginning/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Adams Posted September 5, 2018 Report Share Posted September 5, 2018 I would not pay anybody to do a hull thickess survey unless it had to be done for insurance purposes. You can buy an accurate Chinese thickness tester(0.1mm) for about £50 on ebay which also works from the inside if the boat is in the water. Add a battery operated angle grinder and a big hammer , tape measure and chalk and you are in business. Not exactly rocket science! Unless you can get to the whole of the inside to see potential problem areas bits can be missed by anybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian F B Posted September 5, 2018 Report Share Posted September 5, 2018 Unfortunately the minefield of hull thickness,springers,surveyors could rumble on for years!I saw a recent ad for a Liverpool boat 2002 that had had been replated to some extent so it appears age is not always a factor. As for surveyors,my first survey I was told the boat was good for another 20 years,but on a second survey a couple of months later,after developing a leak,the surveyor showed me the bodge repairs and pittiing the first survey had missed! All is now o.k., The answer is its a bit of a lottery get a good surveyor and hope for the best!!??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted September 5, 2018 Report Share Posted September 5, 2018 5 hours ago, juragirl said: New to boating and would appreciate some views please! Looking getting our first boat and have seen a Springer. Have you seen it "in the flesh". You don't, I think, say where you are, but this is apparently on the Lancaster ccanal. Hav you factored in getting it to wherever you would want it to end up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juragirl Posted September 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2018 Yes I have seen it in the flesh and it will cost nothing (only fuel) to get it onto the Lancaster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.i Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 16 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said: One of the problems for people operating at the 40 year old 'Springer end of the market' that continually having surveys done at £500-£1000 a time soon eats away at their already meagre budget - at some time you will either have to accept a boat for what it is and negotiate as hard as possible, or, spend all your budget on surveyors costs and end up with no boat and no money. Repeat this in BOLD CAPITAL LETTERS Personally I wouldn't waste my money on a survey my last 18 boats have been bought sans-survey, however I do accept that newbies do get a false sense of security and belief that they can blame the surveyor if it all goes wrong so sleep better at night. There was recently a thread about the 'lack of security' buying from a broker gives you- surveyors are just as good at 'wriggling' This hasn't repeated my quotes that you quoted but it doesn't matter. We only look at boats that we can see and that we can take out for a spin, with the owners of course. we wouldn't entertain any boats not on the water. If we are satisfied with the interiors and the engine and stern gland especially then we pay for a haul out and hull survey. We wouldn't expect the surveyor to be responsible if we bought the boat and something went wrong. the surveyance is purely to give us an idea of how things are below the water. So far, on the two we have turned down, the haul out and survey has cost £500 per boat. If this next boat is rubbish we will turn that one down and wait until next year. The problem with re-negotiating prices is that we are looking at small, not Springers, cheapish boats. If a boat is found to be badly pitted in a couple of places by the surveyor then the whole hull will have to be cleaned or sandblasted to get rid of all the blacking so that the rest of the hull can be inspected then all serious pits spot welded although I would want all pits welded. At the price ranges we are looking at this would seriously affect the vendors asking prices. Yes we could go for more expensive boats but that does not mean they will be any better. Our price range is up to £25000 for a 30 to 40 footer and I don't think a small boat like that is worth any more. If we cannot find one before our allotted survey money runs out we will remain land lubbers for now. we, most certainly, are not looking to live on a boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hurley Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 16 hours ago, juragirl said: Thank you everyone! Here is the link to the boat I looked at - obviously I would not be offering the price asked https://www.apolloduck.com/boat/springer-34-cruiser-stern/531319 Could be worth a cheeky offer, that boat has been for sale for months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 At that price it could stay for sale for ever for me! Its more than it was new even if you include all the recent bits, supposedly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hurley Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 Thats the problem with today's market, anything that floats seems to be 20k, the duck is full of 80s boats at 30k and more. Rugby boats had a new Pat Buckle boat that was reduced to 60k, just sold, that to me looked like a bargain. They also have a 1983 50 foot tug, Eliza, for sale at 45k, nice boat but really,45k???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Mike Hurley said: They also have a 1983 50 foot tug, Eliza, for sale at 45k, nice boat but really,45k???? Well, part of it does date from 2000! I wonder if the price has been influenced by its Lister JP2 engine: now that it's impossible, or at least pretty darned difficult, to install vintage engines in new craft, existing boats which have one command a premium. Actually I wouldn't really describe it as a "tug", just a trad. Edited September 6, 2018 by Athy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juragirl Posted September 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Mike Hurley said: Could be worth a cheeky offer, that boat has been for sale for months. Thanks - I thought I had seen it on sites for a very long time. Any idea what it is worth in reality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hurley Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 I really like it, if it was a semi trad and cheaper i might be tempted to fly over. I love those vintage engines, but 1983 and only a 6mm baseplate, hmm. 1 minute ago, juragirl said: Thanks - I thought I had seen it on sites for a very long time. Any idea what it is worth in reality? I would have thought 15k would be tops, if it was worth 20k it would have sold by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 Well Athy, with the polished Gardner Trojan just went up £20K ! Must think about my Garry Gorton 50ft 1990 and its insurance value: after all is said and done the 1.8 BMC is a vintage engine now by that reckoning. Who will give me £50K? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 1 minute ago, Boater Sam said: Well Athy, with the polished Gardner Trojan just went up £20K ! I really don't know, but I am pleased that we had the boat built at a time (2006) when there was no problem with installing an older engine, and when Walsh's were still turning out rebuilt 2LWs. I do suspect that she's now worth more than her insured value (which was last set in 2016). How do you know that the engine received applications of Brasso? You been peeping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 7 minutes ago, Mike Hurley said: I really like it, if it was a semi trad and cheaper i might be tempted to fly over. I love those vintage engines, but 1983 and only a 6mm baseplate, hmm. I would have thought 15k would be tops, if it was worth 20k it would have sold by now. If its too pitted, £400 a ton scrap tops, say £ 3000 and maybe another £1000 for all the bits second hand. We recently had a old Harborough 58ft condemned as thin and split pulling out, went for £4K to be carted off and tarted up as a Thames flat. Suppose it will never move again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 1 minute ago, Athy said: I really don't know, but I am pleased that we had the boat built at a time (2006) when there was no problem with installing an older engine, and when Walsh's were still turning out rebuilt 2LWs. I do suspect that she's now worth more than her insured value (which was last set in 2016). How do you know that the engine received applications of Brasso? You been peeping? I thought all Gardner owners spent a lot of time polishing their plumbing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 56 minutes ago, Mike Hurley said: They also have a 1983 50 foot tug, Eliza, for sale at 45k, nice boat but really,45k???? Slightly intriguing that a 2013 survey showed the hull to be in good condition, but that another just 3 yeras later revealed the need for some remedial work. It would be interesting to lay both surveys alongside each other! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boater Sam Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 1 minute ago, Athy said: I really don't know, but I am pleased that we had the boat built at a time (2006) when there was no problem with installing an older engine, and when Walsh's were still turning out rebuilt 2LWs. I do suspect that she's now worth more than her insured value (which was last set in 2016). How do you know that the engine received applications of Brasso? You been peeping? We see it every year at Cropredy, the purple (mauve?) is unmissable. You never know who is watching! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted September 6, 2018 Report Share Posted September 6, 2018 Just now, Mike the Boilerman said: I thought all Gardner owners spent a lot of time polishing their plumbing... As long as that's not a euphemism.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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