GRP heating options

[Thomas C King]

6 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

   You do know that the bulkheads are not the cabin sides don't you?  They are the "walls" inside the boat, but bulkhead heaters can also go on locker/cupboard sides (with appropriate heatproofing).

I do now, thanks!

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, Thomas C King said:

We've not bought it yet, but most seem to be outboard petrol (although we would prefer inboard diesel). It's also hard to imagine where to mount a heater on the inside to the bulkhead, most of the walls are just windows. Perhaps an outboard diesel heater is best, but that seems very expensive (1500 installation + 1500 for the actual heater).

I know its easy for me to say, but, if you can only find a petrol-outboard powered version then wait a bit longer, get a bit more cash saved up and buy a boat with a diesel inboard.

 

1) The BSS restrictions / regulations on petrol are much more severe

2) Petrol is very difficult to source on the canals - you will need to walk to the nearest 'road service station' to find petrol.

3) By law you can only carry 30 litres of petrol in cans (diesel is unlimited)

4) You will be stopping most days to try and find petrol.

5) Outboard engines do not generally have big enough alternators to keep a 'domestic battery bank' charged up (they are typically 7 amps, a diesel engine alternator would typically be 70 amps) the outboard alternator is only designed to keep a starter battery topped up.

 

Without knowing your budget its difficult, but at up to £10k you will find a very good GRP diesel engined cruiser of 30 foot length.

[TheBiscuits]

6 minutes ago, Thomas C King said:

I do now, thanks!

We all have to learn somewhere!

 

Do you intend to have a permanent mooring with electric hookup?  Small electric heaters are probably the most common option if you do.

 

If not, you will struggle with anything other than solid fuel or dripfed diesel - you won't be able to make enough electric to run any of the others with an outboard.

[rusty69]

12 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

We all have to learn somewhere

Tis a good place to come C. King advice. The forum even has an ex helicopter pilot! 

Edited July 28, 2018 by rusty69

[Thomas C King]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I know its easy for me to say, but, if you can only find a petrol-outboard powered version then wait a bit longer, get a bit more cash saved up and buy a boat with a diesel inboard.

 

1) The BSS restrictions / regulations on petrol are much more severe

2) Petrol is very difficult to source on the canals - you will need to walk to the nearest 'road service station' to find petrol.

3) By law you can only carry 30 litres of petrol in cans (diesel is unlimited)

4) You will be stopping most days to try and find petrol.

5) Outboard engines do not generally have big enough alternators to keep a 'domestic battery bank' charged up (they are typically 7 amps, a diesel engine alternator would typically be 70 amps) the outboard alternator is only designed to keep a starter battery topped up.

 

Without knowing your budget its difficult, but at up to £10k you will find a very good GRP diesel engined cruiser of 30 foot length.

Thanks that is very helpful. Our budget is actually 15k, so from what you are saying I will look harder. All of the Viking 26s seem to have an outboard petrol on apolloduck.

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, Thomas C King said:

Thanks that is very helpful. Our budget is actually 15k, so from what you are saying I will look harder. All of the Viking 26s seem to have an outboard petrol on apolloduck.

Its only 23 foot but its £5k with a Diesel Engine (but it is 9 foot beam) A well laid out 23 foot boat can have more space than a 27 poorly laid out boat.

http://www.newark-marina.co.uk/used-boats/seamaster-23-2/

 

Nauticus 27 with a Diesel engine £8000

https://bwml.co.uk/brokerage/sm-9526-pax/?_sfm_price=0+20000&_sfm_year=0+2017&_sfm_berths=0+10&_sfm_length=0+95&_sfm_beam=0+18&_sfm_draft=0+6&sf_paged=2

 

Leaves you plenty of cash to have a complete modernisation / re-fit interior if you wanted.

 

There are plenty of boats not listed on ApolloDuck

Edited July 28, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[rasputin]

Ronnie tucker sp with his boat on the Scottish canals did a post on installing a Woodburner on a yoghurt pot, better folk than me may be able to find the link 

[Thomas C King]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Its only 23 foot but its £5k with a Diesel Engine (but it is 9 foot beam) A well laid out 23 foot boat can have more space than a 27 poorly laid out boat.

http://www.newark-marina.co.uk/used-boats/seamaster-23-2/

 

Nauticus 27 with a Diesel engine £8000

https://bwml.co.uk/brokerage/sm-9526-pax/?_sfm_price=0+20000&_sfm_year=0+2017&_sfm_berths=0+10&_sfm_length=0+95&_sfm_beam=0+18&_sfm_draft=0+6&sf_paged=2

 

There are plenty of boats not listed on ApolloDuck

Fantastic thank you. The Nauticus looks perfect, I'll scour sites/brokers more closely now.

[rusty69]

7 minutes ago, rasputin said:

Ronnie tucker sp with his boat on the Scottish canals did a post on installing a Woodburner on a yoghurt pot, better folk than me may be able to find the link 

Yep. Me the bullying stalker 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2018 by rusty69

[rasputin]

31 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I know its easy for me to say, but, if you can only find a petrol-outboard powered version then wait a bit longer, get a bit more cash saved up and buy a boat with a diesel inboard.

 

1) The BSS restrictions / regulations on petrol are much more severe

2) Petrol is very difficult to source on the canals - you will need to walk to the nearest 'road service station' to find petrol.

3) By law you can only carry 30 litres of petrol in cans (diesel is unlimited)

4) You will be stopping most days to try and find petrol.

5) Outboard engines do not generally have big enough alternators to keep a 'domestic battery bank' charged up (they are typically 7 amps, a diesel engine alternator would typically be 70 amps) the outboard alternator is only designed to keep a starter battery topped up.

 

Without knowing your budget its difficult, but at up to £10k you will find a very good GRP diesel engined cruiser of 30 foot length.

I live on my boat for 3 separate months a year during the summer months and only once had a problem finding petrol for my boat, and that was only because I neglected to use all the resources I had available to me 

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, rasputin said:

I live on my boat for 3 separate months a year during the summer months and only once had a problem finding petrol for my boat, and that was only because I neglected to use all the resources I had available to me 

That's nice for you.

Do you disagree that petrol is almost impossible to source on the network ?

Or that you need to walk to a 'land based petrol station' to obtain fuel ?

Or that the law states you can only carry 30 litres of petrol ?

Or that Outboard engines are not designed to be able to charge 'domestic battery banks' ?

Or that the BSS requirements for boats with petrol on board are more stringent than for diesel boats ?

[rasputin]

13 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That's nice for you.

Do you disagree that petrol is almost impossible to source on the network ?

Or that you need to walk to a 'land based petrol station' to obtain fuel ?

Or that the law states you can only carry 30 litres of petrol ?

Or that Outboard engines are not designed to be able to charge 'domestic battery banks' ?

Or that the BSS requirements for boats with petrol on board are more stringent than for diesel boats ?

No 

 

Just pointing out that I and many other people manage to live for some time on the canal on a petrol powered boats dispite all the obsticals that you point out, without too much trouble. 

 

Solar and my meager outboard electrical output is quite adequate, for my fridge, lights, radio and phone charging needs. 

 

Petrol is not difficult to find find a v short walk from the canal in a lot of places 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2018 by rasputin

[Alan de Enfield]

26 minutes ago, rasputin said:

Just pointing out that I and many other people manage to live for some time on the canal on a petrol powered boats dispite all the obsticals that you point out, without too much trouble.

I fully accept that, (and have had petrol powered boats myself) but why put yourself to so much 'trouble' when you have a budget that allows you to buy a boat which does not have those limitations and constraints

[rasputin]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I fully accept that, (and have had petrol powered boats myself) but why put yourself to so much 'trouble' when you have a budget that allows you to buy a boat which does not have those limitations and constraints

I don't see them as any bigger limitations or constraints as those given to me by an inboard diesel engine. 

[Paul HD]

1 hour ago, Thomas C King said:

Fantastic thank you. The Nauticus looks perfect, I'll scour sites/brokers more closely now.

The Nauticus is an amazing boat. I viewed 5 of them, 4 diesel and one petrol, all in board. The diesel versions were far too noisy plus a couple of them had terrible vibes. The petrol was a little quiter but still too much for me.

 

I ended up with a petrol outboard and it is whisper quite. It is just unfortunate that I could not find a Nauticus with outboard, but I am very happy with my Ensign 27 foot.

 

Good luck with your search.

[TheBiscuits]

9 minutes ago, Paul HD said:

The Nauticus is an amazing boat. I viewed 5 of them, 4 diesel and one petrol, all in board. The diesel versions were far too noisy plus a couple of them had terrible vibes. The petrol was a little quiter but still too much for me.

Ahh, she wasn't that noisy, just you have sharper hearing than most 

 

She sold anyway, so all's well that ends well, and I do like your boat from your ... educational ... mooring video.

 

I do notice that they were all advertised at about £6k until I sold mine for £8k, but I still insist she was special.

[Phil Ambrose]

12 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

We have a Propex in our Horse Trailer - its quite thirsty on gas.

I would think that getting the exhaust connected up in a boat would be more complex - in the trailer it just goes out thru' the floor.

I fitted one in our previous boat and it came with a SS skin fitting which took the exhaust and the combustion air intake .

It is beneficial to take the (seperate)heated air intake from within the cabin space so you are only heating already warm air rather than having to heat outside air which may be around freezing .

Phil 

[Tony Brooks]

5 hours ago, Phil Ambrose said:

I fitted one in our previous boat and it came with a SS skin fitting which took the exhaust and the combustion air intake .

It is beneficial to take the (seperate)heated air intake from within the cabin space so you are only heating already warm air rather than having to heat outside air which may be around freezing .

Phil 

That's true for the warm air versions of the Webasto type as well.

[Robbo]

6 hours ago, Phil Ambrose said:

I fitted one in our previous boat and it came with a SS skin fitting which took the exhaust and the combustion air intake .

It is beneficial to take the (seperate)heated air intake from within the cabin space so you are only heating already warm air rather than having to heat outside air which may be around freezing .

Phil 

Although It will be better if you take air from the outside as you’ll reduce the amount of water in the air, and on a small boat with living on it you are likely to have a condensation issue if you don’t.   Some of the models I’ve seen have two intakes, one for the cabin and one for outside so you can mix and get both worlds.

[Momac]

19 hours ago, Thomas C King said:

Thanks everyone! Regarding wood burners, my only problem is that on a GRP is it really okay to drill through the roof for the chimney?

No

[ronnietucker]

19 hours ago, rasputin said:

Ronnie tucker sp with his boat on the Scottish canals did a post on installing a Woodburner on a yoghurt pot, better folk than me may be able to find the link 

Guilty as charged m'Lud!   o/

 

The little woodburner works a treat on my boat, and passed as part of my recent BSS.

 

Another option (for a quick heat) is an Aladdin oil lamp. Good for heating a small space and blows out immediately. Unlike a woodburner, which you need to let burn out. I have one that I use with 'lamp oil' (no bad smell from it) that I buy on Amazon. When I have it lit I put it on the floor of the boat as quite a lot of heat comes out the top of the glass chimney, and I don't want to melt my low roof!

20 hours ago, Thomas C King said:

Thanks everyone! Regarding wood burners, my only problem is that on a GRP is it really okay to drill through the roof for the chimney?

I removed one of my twisty up mushroom vents to get a hole for my woodburner flue.

[Phil Ambrose]

46 minutes ago, ronnietucker said:

Guilty as charged m'Lud!   o/

 

The little woodburner works a treat on my boat, and passed as part of my recent BSS.

 

Another option (for a quick heat) is an Aladdin oil lamp. Good for heating a small space and blows out immediately. Unlike a woodburner, which you need to let burn out. I have one that I use with 'lamp oil' (no bad smell from it) that I buy on Amazon. When I have it lit I put it on the floor of the boat as quite a lot of heat comes out the top of the glass chimney, and I don't want to melt my low roof!

I removed one of my twisty up mushroom vents to get a hole for my woodburner flue.

It's fine to pass a flue through the GRP roof, just do it correctly. Our previous boat which I fitted the Propex to also had a 8kw Glembring diesel heater, drip feed, and I fitted that myself with no problems from BSS. Oh and condensation was never a problem in all the 10 years that we lived in her she was 40ft x 12ft and was a warm comfortable home for us both. 

Phil 

Interesting the categorical "No", I often wonder what experience makes someone make such a negative post.

Phil 

Edited July 29, 2018 by Phil Ambrose

[Momac]

55 minutes ago, Phil Ambrose said:

 

Interesting the categorical "No", I often wonder what experience makes someone make such a negative post.

Phil 

I may have wrongly assumed a log burner on a GRP boat is a non starter.

It seems to me a potentially suicidal idea.

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I may have wrongly assumed a log burner on a GRP boat is a non starter.

It seems to me a potentially suicidal idea.

Why ?

 

An old thread on the subject ;

 

 

Edited July 29, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[Momac]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

Why ?

GRP being combustible material sometimes with the roof deck possibly having a core of wood  and heat from the chimney  being  potentially very high . Not only that sufficient air supply required to avoid carbon monoxide poisoning.

A diesel heater on the other hand being made specifically for the purpose with the exhaust designed to operate at  a tolerable temperature.