larryjc Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 Anyone else had an email asking for a 'Snap survey' of opinions of CRT?? Got mine this morning and spent some time over it - got to be helpful. My final comment to the last question was: 'Strongly believe that if canal managers actually and regularly travel their own sections of waterway rather than sitting behind a desk trying to make sense of this sort of survey - many of the questions you have asked would become irrelevant.' 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koukouvagia Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 I got half way through until I came to a question which asked for multiple answers, but would only allow me to add one. Sigh. I then wanted to go back to revise an answer and lost the whole lot. Can't be bothered to do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 It took over an hour to answer (apart from Q33 which is technically impossible to complete). Usual answers e.g. poor maintenance too long to fix problems inexperienced contractors lack of dredging overhanging vegetation poor management inconsistent enforcement failed funding policies CYCLING!!! Did I find anything good to say hmmm well I did say I thought they were doing a half decent job of enforcement in London given the lack of real powers, and that the NBTA are a threat to good enforcement and leisure boaters alike. I suspect the majority will add similar adverse comments to say basically the same, but will they act on the results? Will it do any good? Can't do any harm - can it? Or will we hear that 90% of boaters are satisfied with the current state of affairs and boasted by the endorsement of their management style CaRT directors award themselves 17% pay rise (more likely). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryjc Posted March 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 Funny old thing - that was just about my list as well but still worth saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ruth Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 3 hours ago, Midnight said: the NBTA are a threat to good enforcement and leisure boaters alike. What makes you say this out of interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, Red Ruth said: What makes you say this out of interest? 'cos they are - are you a member? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ruth Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 Just now, Midnight said: 'cos they are - are you a member? No - not a member. Just that I thought they were doing loads of campaigning for better facilities and services and things - more water points, mooring rings, dredging, bins, etc etc.. Why would they be a threat to good enforcement and leisure boaters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Red Ruth said: No - not a member. Just that I thought they were doing loads of campaigning for better facilities and services and things - more water points, mooring rings, dredging, bins, etc etc.. Why would they be a threat to good enforcement and leisure boaters? Misrepresentation would be a good place to start. The T allegedly stands for 'Traveller' but their primary role seems to be in the support of non-moving boaters, so water points, bins and mooring rings, (and if you could add septic tank emptying points) every 100 foot or so along the canal that would be very convenient - thank you very much. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Midnight Posted March 15, 2018 Popular Post Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Red Ruth said: No - not a member. Just that I thought they were doing loads of campaigning for better facilities and services and things - more water points, mooring rings, dredging, bins, etc etc.. Why would they be a threat to good enforcement and leisure boaters? They are campaigning on behalf of members who mostly don't want to 'travel', who wish to stay in one place without paying for a home mooring. They are not representing boaters they are representing people who want cheap and convenient accommodation on the waterways without following the rules and without cost. If that's not a threat to enforcement, bona fide continuous cruisers and leisure boaters I don't know what is. Edited March 15, 2018 by Midnight 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ruth Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Midnight said: They are campaigning on behalf of members who mostly don't want to 'travel', Oh right. I thought their issues around travelling were to do with the distance and 'movement pattern' requirements on the cc licence - not not wanting to travel at all. I've not been in London on the boat so can't really comment on that with any insight. I'm not sure 'boaters' and 'people who want [affordable] accommodation need necessarily to be mutually exclusive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, Red Ruth said: I thought their issues around travelling were to do with the distance and 'movement pattern' requirements on the cc licence - not not wanting to travel at all It amounts to the same thing. If you are a boater travelling the system then both minimum distances and movement patterns are irrelevant. Because you’re travelling. They don’t wish to travel. They wish to remain in the same locale not because they like boating but because it’s cheaper than a flat. Of course it’s cheaper, they’re not paying for their moorings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ruth Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, WotEver said: If you are a boater travelling the system Pretty hard to hold down a job travelling all round the system though! What should people do if they can't afford housing (there isn't any) and they need to keep a job? It seems like by this analysis only retired people should be able to live on boats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Red Ruth said: Pretty hard to hold down a job travelling all round the system though! What should people do if they can't afford housing (there isn't any) and they need to keep a job? Simple. Pay for a mooring. The canals aren’t there for freeloaders to hog the visitor moorings without paying for them. 3 minutes ago, Red Ruth said: It seems like by this analysis only retired people should be able to live on boats. Or those who have a ‘virtual’ business which doesn’t require a fixed location. Or traders. Or those with extended holidays. All the rest of us pay for a mooring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ruth Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 Just now, WotEver said: Simple. Pay for a mooring. doesn't seem that simple to me - there is a massive shortage of residential moorings all over the system as far as I understand - not nearly enough to cater for everyone who lives on boats. should CRT be doing more about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WotEver Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Red Ruth said: doesn't seem that simple to me - there is a massive shortage of residential moorings all over the system as far as I understand - not nearly enough to cater for everyone who lives on boats. should CRT be doing more about this? Nope. And until they do then freeloading isn’t the answer. Lots of folk can’t afford to buy a house but by your argument they should just move into an empty property and live in it for free for as long as they wish. There should be a name for that... oh wait, there is. Besides, the only reason there are all these people who ‘want to live on a boat’ is because they see it as cheap accommodation. Is it CaRT’s remit to sort out the UK’s affordable housing shortage? I don’t believe so, no. Edited March 15, 2018 by WotEver 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ruth Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, WotEver said: But until they do then freeloading isn’t the answer. People aren't freeloading if they're paying for their licence - everyone gets the same amount of time on visitor moorings. If there are no residential moorings and no housing, I don't know what you think people should do? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Red Ruth said: Pretty hard to hold down a job travelling all round the system though! What should people do if they can't afford housing (there isn't any) and they need to keep a job? It seems like by this analysis only retired people should be able to live on boats. Caravan in one of the parks 24 minutes ago, Red Ruth said: doesn't seem that simple to me - there is a massive shortage of residential moorings all over the system as far as I understand - not nearly enough to cater for everyone who lives on boats. should CRT be doing more about this? No. CRT should not be installing long term moorings for anyone, tat should be for private marinas or housing associations help with homes if that is what's required. Edited March 15, 2018 by ditchcrawler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Red Ruth said: doesn't seem that simple to me - there is a massive shortage of residential moorings all over the system as far as I understand - not nearly enough to cater for everyone who lives on boats. should CRT be doing more about this? I suspect even if there were enough residential moorings for all, many NBTA members would expect them to be free or would simply refuse to moor there. After 14 long days travelling, I visited Oxford last year and found nearly a mile of near empty visitor moorings with just 2 days stay allowed. This I was told as a consequence of CaRT responding to continuous moorers on that stretch. Sooner or later CaRT will bring in more stringent anti-overstayer measures and then we all suffer through the actions of those who wish to bend the rules to their own end. So do you agree that no matter what side you bat for the NBTA is a threat to enforcement (given CaRT have weak powers) and leisure boaters (including bona fide continuous cruisers)? Edited March 15, 2018 by Midnight 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dog Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 6 hours ago, koukouvagia said: I got half way through until I came to a question which asked for multiple answers, but would only allow me to add one. Sigh. I then wanted to go back to revise an answer and lost the whole lot. Can't be bothered to do it again. This happened to me after spending about 40 minutes on quite a complex CRT survey a couple of months ago. I also thought life was too short to try again. Perhaps it's how they filter out views they don't want to hear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea Dog Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said: No. CRT should not be installing long term moorings for anyone, tat should be for private marinas or housing associations help with homes if that is what's required. Absolutely. The canals are part of a network of navigable inland waterways, not a solution to the housing crisis. What's next, permanently static caravans taking up all the hard shoulder on motorways? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerbeerbeerbeerbeer Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Midnight said: I suspect even if there were enough residential moorings for all, many NBTA members would expect them to be free or would simply refuse to moor there. After 14 long days travelling, I visited Oxford last year and found nearly a mile of near empty visitor moorings with just 2 days stay allowed. This I was told as a consequence of CaRT responding to continuous moorers on that stretch. Sooner or later CaRT will bring in more stringent anti-overstayer measures and then we all suffer through the actions of those who wish to bend the rules to their own end. So do you agree that no matter what side you bat for the NBTA is a threat to enforcement (given CaRT have weak powers) and leisure boaters (including bona fide continuous cruisers)? Are you stating the situation in Oxford is a result of NBTA membership? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Sea Dog said: This happened to me after spending about 40 minutes on quite a complex CRT survey a couple of months ago. I also thought life was too short to try again. Perhaps it's how they filter out views they don't want to hear? I thought the survey was quite amateurish, naive and technically flawed in places. I doubt CaRT spent much money on consultants for this one. Maybe produced by students or even in house. Despite that any opportunity to give feedback is good. Even if the results are massaged to make Parry & Co look good they know full well they're not good at managing the waterways being a navigation authority. Edited March 15, 2018 by Midnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Goliath said: Are you stating the situation in Oxford is a result of NBTA membership? No, as a result of 'continuous moorers i.e. the types of boater they are most likely to represent. I'm not knocking the NBTA as an organisation. I think they're doing a good job for their members exploiting loopholes and encouraging sympathetic media coverage. It's just that their campaigns are not good for me and IMO not good the waterways as a navigable resource. Therefore I see them as a threat in the same way Manchester United FC might see Manchester City FC as a threat. All depends which side you bat for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerbeerbeerbeerbeer Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 Ok, whilst I don’t generally ‘bat’ for anyone, I do support the NBTA. I’m not a continuous moorer. Why are their campaigns not good for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Posted March 15, 2018 Report Share Posted March 15, 2018 11 minutes ago, Goliath said: Why are their campaigns not good for you? I shouldn't really need to answer that. You should really have worked it out by now, but assuming you're not just baiting a trap. Because they are likely to affect my ability to find a mooring in places like London and on the Kennet & Avon. I prefer the canals not to become linear housing estates. If I was living on a boat and working in London I would become a member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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