Rec counter. Defective.

[Nightwatch]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

When you turn the knob to 20v DC does the display start displaying. If not then the battery in the meter probably needs changing.

If it does display you MIGHT have a broken probe wire or a loose connection into the meter.

On 20v DC the meter should show some sort of display even with no cables in it.

There is something on the display. All zeros. Your suggestion that I may have a faulty probe cable makes sense. I may need a new meter. I bought this one from not Aldi/lidl but Maplins. Hardly used it and it's been turned off. 

41 minutes ago, philjw said:

Check the size. A lot are the 9v volt ones which you see in smoke detectors. I still think of these as PP3 but they're not called that anymore.

It's got 3 x AAA batteries.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Nightwatch

[Tony Brooks]

12 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

There is something on the display. All zeros. Your suggestion that I may have a faulty probe cable makes sense. I may need a new meter. I bought this one from not Aldi/lidl but Maplins. Hardly used it and it's been turned off. 

 

Turn the knob so it points at the 200 (ohms) at the bottom of the screen.

The display should show a I on the right (that’s I for infinity).

Hold the metal probe tips tightly together

The meter should read zero but will probably read 0.2 or 0.3.

If it does then the meter wires and probes are OK.

If not take one cable out and use the remaining one to make good contact with the metal in the hole the other probe came out of.

The meter should read as above, if not the cable you are using is faulty

Repeat with other probe.

Make sure the cables are a firm fit in the sockets.

If all that checks out then I fear the voltage side is faulty so take the back off to see if there is a blown fuse but I doubt you will find one for the voltage scale.

Late thought - you did not by any chance have the red l4ead in the top hole - the one marked 10 A? If so the voltmeter will not work. The red lead should go in the other one marked V

Edited January 25, 2018 by Tony Brooks

[Nightwatch]

 Anyone know where I can get, immediately in south of England, devizes area, an start alternator 55 amp Presto Light type, I am informed. 

[ditchcrawler]

35 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

 Anyone know where I can get, immediately in south of England, devizes area, an start alternator 55 amp Presto Light type, I am informed. 

This is all I could find https://www.misterwhat.co.uk/directions/map?daddr=51.3417004,-1.9790624&cid=2313793

[bizzard]

I've always found that with the cheap probes the wires easily break away from the probes inside the plastic handle. I solder em back on and then either jamb a matchstick hard up between the wires and the plastic handle or Araldite them in to stop movement which busts the wires off,  no more trouble then.

[Nightwatch]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

This is all I could find https://www.misterwhat.co.uk/directions/map?daddr=51.3417004,-1.9790624&cid=2313793

Thank you for that. I had a chap here with me at the time and he was searching everywhere for a replacement. Nobody seemed to want to giveaway a compatable part number. Barras Shires are okay until you need bits.  Anyway, we think we have sourced a replacement. The number we eventually got wac LRA1950. Oncewe had that number we sourced one from a place in Westbury just down the road! Arrives this afternoon. Fingers crossed and all that, that the brackets are in the correct places. We are told they are!!!

Recieved good advice from Tony Brooke's. Thank you Tony.

35 minutes ago, bizzard said:

I've always found that with the cheap probes the wires easily break away from the probes inside the plastic handle. I solder em back on and then either jamb a matchstick hard up between the wires and the plastic handle or Araldite them in to stop movement which busts the wires off,  no more trouble then.

Thank Mr Bizzard. My man who was at the boat this morning has ascertained the the unit is deceased. It was only a few pounds so not worth investigating further. 

[mrsmelly]

6 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Thank you for that. I had a chap here with me at the time and he was searching everywhere for a replacement. Nobody seemed to want to giveaway a compatable part number. Barras Shires are okay until you need bits.  Anyway, we think we have sourced a replacement. The number we eventually got wac LRA1950. Oncewe had that number we sourced one from a place in Westbury just down the road! Arrives this afternoon. Fingers crossed and all that, that the brackets are in the correct places. We are told they are!!!

Recieved good advice from Tony Brooke's. Thank you Tony.

If it doesn't fit remember you can join easily the starter battery to the domestic bank with one cable just remember you have done it and disconnect after you have charged up so you need not be stuck.

[Nightwatch]

Just now, mrsmelly said:

If it doesn't fit remember you can join easily the starter battery to the domestic bank with one cable just remember you have done it and disconnect after you have charged up so you need not be stuck.

Thank you. All I seem to be doing is thanking everyone for their valued advice and sharing knowledge.

i have at this very moment got a jump lead doing the business. 

[WotEver]

9 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Thank Mr Bizzard. My man who was at the boat this morning has ascertained the the unit is deceased. It was only a few pounds so not worth investigating further. 

Coincidentally I was in one of those ‘everything cheap and you never know what we might have’ shops earlier today and saw your multimeter in a blister pack. £6.99. 

[bizzard]

13 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

Thank you for that. I had a chap here with me at the time and he was searching everywhere for a replacement. Nobody seemed to want to giveaway a compatable part number. Barras Shires are okay until you need bits.  Anyway, we think we have sourced a replacement. The number we eventually got wac LRA1950. Oncewe had that number we sourced one from a place in Westbury just down the road! Arrives this afternoon. Fingers crossed and all that, that the brackets are in the correct places. We are told they are!!!

Recieved good advice from Tony Brooke's. Thank you Tony.

Thank Mr Bizzard. My man who was at the boat this morning has ascertained the the unit is deceased. It was only a few pounds so not worth investigating further. 

Is he sure a wire has not broken off on the probe inside the handle. Hold the plastic handles still with one and tug the wires gently with the other hand. If they've busted off they'll just pull out of the plastic handle. I'm surprised that the meter is deceased if you've never used it much.  I've used a cheap one for about  15 years and apart from the wires breaking off the probes its still going strong. the wire probe sets on ebay for a couple of quid.   And are the battery contacts inside the unit nicely clean and bright?

Edited January 25, 2018 by bizzard

[Nightwatch]

He did of fiddling around with his multimeter and my multimeter, swapping probes etc and came to the decision that another 'investment' is required. 24 hours ago I could afford one. Now not so sure.

[Nightwatch]

The new alternator s a Straight bolt on. The tachometer is still not working though. It has the connector which is connected. Supplier being contacted in the morning. Possible defective alternator.!

The new alternator is an exact replica. Should be gold plated!

[mrsmelly]

12 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

The new alternator s a Straight bolt on. The tachometer is still not working though. It has the connector which is connected. Supplier being contacted in the morning. Possible defective alternator.!

The new alternator is an exact replica. Should be gold plated!

Not cheap then?

[ditchcrawler]

9 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

The new alternator s a Straight bolt on. The tachometer is still not working though. It has the connector which is connected. Supplier being contacted in the morning. Possible defective alternator.!

The new alternator is an exact replica. Should be gold plated!

Are you getting a voltage on the W terminal?

 

[Nightwatch]

My man did all that. My multimeter is duff. He thinks the alternator is duff also. It's charging okay, so okay apart from the rev counter.

Another issue? The main alternator is kicking out 15.6 (ish) volts. Too much I know. Why is also, a, I don't know. Now I'm paying someone to do all this I feel a bit more confident that all will be sorted, eventually.

to add, there's power going to the rev counter as the hour gauge is working when it wasn't before. Perhaps the Rev counter is broken. Lots of perhaps and maybes.

 

Edited January 25, 2018 by Nightwatch

[Dr Bob]

Your boat didnt take a lightening strike did it?

[Nightwatch]

44 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Your boat didnt take a lightening strike did it?

Not that I'm aware of. 

[Tony Brooks]

14 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

My man did all that. My multimeter is duff. He thinks the alternator is duff also. It's charging okay, so okay apart from the rev counter.

Another issue? The main alternator is kicking out 15.6 (ish) volts. Too much I know. Why is also, a, I don't know. Now I'm paying someone to do all this I feel a bit more confident that all will be sorted, eventually.

to add, there's power going to the rev counter as the hour gauge is working when it wasn't before. Perhaps the Rev counter is broken. Lots of perhaps and maybes.

 

Do you have any fancy alternator controller fitted, if so it may be temperate compensated although for the yesterday's temperature it seems a bit high. Ditto solar, especially if the controller has decided to do an equalisation charge when that voltage was measured.

If its a battery sensed alternator or there is a controller in use you may well have dirty/loose connections or undersized cables on the main charging pos & neg, especially if that voltage was at the alternator.  On a machine sensed one, as most are, then you could have a blown field diode. Check the voltage between the small D+ and B+ with the engine revving. If its more than a few tenths of a volt then its probably a field diode.

Not going to comment on the revcounter unless I had a set of frequency readings from the W terminal. I think someone else in another topic said he W should give about 6 or 7 volts when revving.

[WotEver]

9 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I think someone else in another topic said he W should give about 6 or 7 volts when revving.

‘’Twas me. Somewhere in that region. 6-8V depending on alternator speed and how the multimeter reacts to fast pulses.

Of course, if you have a posh Fluke or similar that can read frequency then you could use that too. 

[Nightwatch]

As far as I can gather there isn't a W terminal but a short lead with a push type connector coming out the side of the unit.

I now have a brand spanking new multimeter. It's massive in comparison to the old one. So MUST be a better one!!!

Brendon will return at some point so I'm not going to fuss about and take the wind out of his sails. Plus m finding it is difficult to get to grips with diodes etc.

Martyn

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Nightwatch

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, Nightwatch said:

As far as I can gather there isn't a W terminal but a short lead with a push type connector coming out the side of the unit.

I now have a brand spanking new multimeter. It's massive in comparison to the old one. So MUST be a better one!!!

Brendon will return at some point so I'm not going to fuss about and take the wind out of his sails. Plus m finding it is difficult to get to grips with diodes etc.

Martyn

 

Stick with what you know Martyn, You know ..........The BIG hammer!!

[Nightwatch]

I have a selection of hammers, differing weights, depends on the severity of the problem. This is of course after a good fiddle about.

 

[Tony Brooks]

3 hours ago, Nightwatch said:

As far as I can gather there isn't a W terminal but a short lead with a push type connector coming out the side of the unit.

I now have a brand spanking new multimeter. It's massive in comparison to the old one. So MUST be a better one!!!

Brendon will return at some point so I'm not going to fuss about and take the wind out of his sails. Plus m finding it is difficult to get to grips with diodes etc.

Martyn

 

That type of alternator usually has a small blade terminal in a square hole at the back, its usually unmarked. Its for a radio suppressor and some alternators have a suppressor already fitted and some not. If your short lead with a push on terminal is connected to this the revcounter will not work.

However it sounds more like a fly lead but it would not come from the side of the unit, It would come from a slot in the back, possibly to one side of the back. This could well have been added by your supplier to drive the revcounter, but what's their soldering like? Also did they solde rit to a pos or neg diode. I have a feeling soldering it to a negative one may not drove the revcounter, can't be 100% sure on that though.

It is also possible its been connected to a brush holder in case you have an external controller and if so, again, it will not drive a revcounter. They tend to come out of the side of the regulator in many cases. (the odd semi-curved 4 sided box bolted to the back).

Edited January 26, 2018 by Tony Brooks

[Nightwatch]

Right, firstly I have to thank all for the good sound advice on the issues I have been experiencing.

we are now all up and running. Both alternators running as they should, 14.30 ish. Amps reducing nicely. Rev counter working. Very slight Rev increase to kick the alts into action. Beforehand used to Rev quite a bit. Been suggested the idle needs speeding up ever so slightly. Can I do that? 

Didnt cost as much as I thought, which is a bonus. Money well spent. Did find a disconnected wire which was another issue. Bilge pump!

To say I'm a happy chappie is an understatement. I really dislike things not working, but I'm not alone with that. 

[Tony Brooks]

Great you got it sorted.

You can increase the idle revs but if the boat is fine in all other respect apart from the need to rev slightly to energise the alternator I would not bother. If it too slow at idle or if idle produces vibrations and the engine jumps about at idle in gear then bu all means tweak it up a bit. If you look at the injector pump while you/someone opens and closes the throttle you will see what screw stops the throttle lever on the pump closing any further. It will have a locknut on it. loosen the locknut, screw the screw in a little & re lock.