bigcol Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 Hi I’m wondering what qualifys re CRT licensing purposes for a houseboat. for a boat without propulsion, compared to a normal boat with propulsion and how much this would cost for a 56 ft boat ive been on the site and can’t see anything o do with the rules on this col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) This is on the license application form: Quote *A houseboat is boat whose predominant use is for a purpose other than navigation. Houseboat licences are only issued for boats with a long term mooring on a Canal & River Trust site which has planning consent for residential use. And this in the License terms and conditions: Quote Houseboat Certificate Houseboat means a boat predominantly used for a purpose other than navigation and which, if required for the purpose, has planning permission, for the site where it is moored. A houseboat may be moved provided that navigation does not become its predominant use. These are only issued for boats covered by a Canal & River Trust mooring agreement and the houseboat certificate and Trust mooring agreement must run concurrently with the same expiry date Edited December 12, 2017 by RLWP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philjw Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 A bit more here: https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/6465.pdf?v=26be72 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, philjw said: A bit more here: https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/6465.pdf?v=26be72 Just beat me to it. I found that by searching for 'Houseboat Certificate' There is this too, I haven't read it: https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/3139.pdf?v=e3bfb9 Richard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philjw Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 minute ago, RLWP said: I found that by searching for 'Houseboat Certificate' I just typed "houseboat" so took less time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 8 minutes ago, philjw said: I just typed "houseboat" so took less time. That second document seems to have more in it, check page 9 I'm not clear if it is current practice though Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcol Posted December 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) Lol Thankyou all so if you have a new boat with no engine or gearbox or any helm etc and you are in a private residential marina and of course your not going anywhere for a year until a engine and running gear is installed do you get a reduction in your licence? because I have read the info from CRT and still don’t know how do they discount or charge for a house boat isnt their a price list Edited December 12, 2017 by bigcol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 First off, there is nothing about having an engine (or not) in the guidance. It all seems to be about having a boat you don't intend to use for navigation Secondly, if you go onto the CRT website, it keeps popping up a window saying "Hello, thank you for visiting. Can I help you in any way?". Why not ask them Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcol Posted December 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 Hi Richard im on the CRT site, and there’s no box popping up for me? ta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacka Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 Have you blocked ads or pop-up's in your browser?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 You could try these: https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/contact-us/ways-to-contact-us Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcol Posted December 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 Hi. I’ve now emailed them so at least I know thankyou for pointing me in the right direction i will try your link anyway col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 Just now, bigcol said: Hi. I’ve now emailed them so at least I know thankyou for pointing me in the right direction i will try your link anyway col No problem. Interesting question, and I suspect one that they get asked all the time. On the face of it, you get a cheaper license Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLWP Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 (edited) I'm wondering what happens when one year you switch your vessel from being a navigable boat to a houseboat, and the next you switch back again Richard Edited December 12, 2017 by RLWP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_P Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 minute ago, RLWP said: No problem. Interesting question, and I suspect one that they get asked all the time. On the face of it, you get a cheaper license Richard I'd assumed the prices were the same. My understanding was that you can transfer a houseboat licence to a new owner for however many months there are until the anniversary date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelMoore Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 36 minutes ago, bigcol said: . . . and you are in a private residential marina . . . You mention being in a private residential marina, yet the ‘curious’ aspect of CaRT’s published criteria as quoted in #2 is the refusal to issue houseboat certificates for vessels on private residential moorings. That this is contrary to statute is illustrated by the “General terms of houseboat certificates” in Schedule 1 of the 1995 Act; some terms are set out as applicable to all mooring sites [Part III], and a separate section [Part II] applies “Terms applicable to sites controlled by Board”. The legislation thus recognises that qualifying vessels can be issued houseboat certificates whether they are on Board controlled sites or privately controlled sites. “Application 2(1) Part II of this Schedule applies where— ( a ) the Board own an interest in, or rights over, the site; and ( b ) the site is managed by the Board or their agent. (2) Part III of this Schedule applies to all certificates.” The fact that the Board have no control over, for example, continued permission by either the private site owner or the LPA, is allowed for in stating that the validity of the certificate determines on the retraction by the site owner of consent for the use. Hence: - “6(1) The certificate shall remain in force for the period or until the date specified thereon unless – ( c ) the holder’s interest in or other right to moor at the site (otherwise than by virtue of the certificate) ends . . .” You may have to face up to a CaRT refusal to issue you with a houseboat certificate nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mack Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 39 minutes ago, bigcol said: for a year until a engine and running gear is installed do you get a reduction in your licence But that indicates an intention to make the boat mobile in future. Doesn't that invalidate your claim it is a non-moving houseboat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelMoore Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, David Mack said: But that indicates an intention to make the boat mobile in future. Doesn't that invalidate your claim it is a non-moving houseboat? No - though arguably it should qualify as a pleasure boat, but see - http://liveaboard-forum.blogspot.co.uk/p/why-ive-spent-20-years-defending-bw.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_P Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 8 minutes ago, David Mack said: But that indicates an intention to make the boat mobile in future. Doesn't that invalidate your claim it is a non-moving houseboat? But a houseboat doesn't have to be non-moving. it's just that moving can't be its primary purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 1 hour ago, bigcol said: do you get a reduction in your licence? Not according to statements like this...... Quote At the moment, the cost of a HBC is the same as a Standard Licence but the CRT have suggested this could be reviewed in future to make the cost of the HBC more expensive. I can't see why it should be cheaper. unless I'm missing something obvious. Obviously there is a major CRT licence review going on at the moment, and I'm not sure any of us could predict at this stage what effect this will have on any type of CRT licence, (including houseboat ones). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcol Posted December 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 Hi Alan im curious, why wouldn’t you think that a house boat which hasn’t got any ability to move or navigate, use the services of the canal network wouldn’t or shouldn’t qualify.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_fincher Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, bigcol said: Hi Alan im curious, why wouldn’t you think that a house boat which hasn’t got any ability to move or navigate, use the services of the canal network wouldn’t or shouldn’t qualify.? But as has been pointed out their definition of a houseboat specifically does not rule out the ability to move or navigate...... (my bold) Quote A Houseboat may be used for navigation from time to time provided it does not become its predominant use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelMoore Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 18 minutes ago, alan_fincher said: I can't see why it should be cheaper. unless I'm missing something obvious. They used to be more expensive if I recall correctly; in recent years they have been the same. CaRT have leeway to reduce the fees of course, and in rare circumstances actually have offered to do so [better lower fees than none at all]. If you have a mobile vessel that could be used for pleasure cruising, the only benefit offered by a houseboat certificate would be the limited security of tenure offered, with the ability to transfer the added value of that. Even then, CaRT rely on the lack of relevant knowledge amongst most boaters to whittle down those advantages, with statements being issued that such benefits will no longer apply. The benefits even if you successfully fought for them under the legislation – as you would be entitled to do – still apply only to CaRT owned/managed sites; private moorings owner/operators could still give you the boot, and/or demand that they receive the added value of the mooring in the event of any sale. What is more, T&C's attached to the certificate are - as distinct from the PBL or PBC - integral to the consent and enforceable, and they can make those up as they please; at some point there may well be a court dispute over CaRT's claims that PBC's and PBL's are subject to the unilaterally drafted T&C's, but there would be no such case to answer in respect of houseboat certificates. Why anybody would seek to bind themselves to such stringent and arbitrary control is beyond me, even if there was a saving in charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Marshall Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 The answer to the original question, as to how this compares, would seem to be that financially there's no difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcol Posted December 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 This is the email I got back from CRT Dear Colin,Thank you for contacting us.Please see the following as this states the definition of a houseboat. You will need to purchase a licence for the boat if it is on the water.https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/6465.pdf?v=26be72Kind Regards,Charlotte Roberts Arthur. That’s all I need to know, Thankyou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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