Ex working Boat Insurance

[Darrenroberts]

Hi there i was wondering if any one could help me. Iam trying to find an insurance company for my ex working narrow boat. She was made in 1898 and so far iam not having much luck finding a company due to her age. Can any one recommend a company that cover historic boats? cheers. Darren

[koukouvagia]

I've stayed with Towergate ever since the days when Michael Stimpson ran his company which was then swallowed up by larger enterprises.  

I never get the feeling that the people at Towergate really understand historic boats.  However, a few years ago I had a query over the sudden and out-of-the blue imposition of a full hull survey where I was given only a very short time to arrange it.  I managed to speak to Michael Stimpson who still had (has?) an interest in the company and he was able to sort the problem and give me a couple of years' grace.

I know many historic boat owners opt for a basic third party only insurance, but I've never really had the courage to adopt this approach.

 

 

[rusty69]

Does the age of the boat necessarily matter if a surveyor has given it a clean bill of health that the insurance co is prepared to accept. Or am i missing the point (i usually do) 

[frangar]

I was told GJW have a good idea with historical craft. I agree Towergate have gone quickly downhill. Shame as I too was with them from when it was stimpsons. I'm now with GJW after several personal recommendations 

[alan_fincher]

15 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

I managed to speak to Michael Stimpson who still had (has?) an interest in the company and he was able to sort the problem and give me a couple of years' grace.

Michael Stimpson's association with Towergate was broken about a year back when they stop usinf RSA as their underwriter.

Michael now provides something through an alternative provider, but the arrangements seem rather different. Confusingly this outfit seems to use at least 3 names (Worcester Marine, Look Marine Insurance Services and A-Plan Insurance all in the same email!).

Michael said his offering will be cheaper, but it wasn't for Flamingo, and I was unable to nail a price for Sickle down before renewal.

I have variously been told that both providers, (Towergate and Michael's) will in future need full surveys and valuations of the vessel, rather than the hull surveys that have sufficed up until now, but neither would give me a confirmation or denial of this.

I have currently stuck with Towergate.  From memory it is now underwritten by Zurich, although I may be wrong on that, without checking.

 

[zenataomm]

12 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Does the age of the boat necessarily matter if a surveyor has given it a clean bill of health that the insurance co is prepared to accept. Or am i missing the point (i usually do) 

Generally speaking, if you own a boat over 20 (?) years then an insurance company will demand an out of water survey every ten minutes (I might have exaggerated a tad there) in order to obtain comprehensive cover.

Third party cover and you pays the premium and takes your risk.

When I bought Rigal in the early 80s she had so much work done that BWB classified her as a new build.  Mr Stimpson didn't so she was being full surveyed every time I docked for blacking.  I soon got fed up with that.

[alan_fincher]

17 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Does the age of the boat necessarily matter if a surveyor has given it a clean bill of health that the insurance co is prepared to accept. Or am i missing the point (i usually do) 

I don't think many will touch am 80 or 100 year old boat.

With Towergate it is a different, (and more expensive) policy from what you could buy for a modern boat.

Just now, zenataomm said:

Generally speaking, if you own a boat over 20 (?) years then an insurance company will demand an out of water survey every ten minutes (I might have exaggerated a tad there) in order to obtain comprehensive cover.

Third party cover and you pays the premium and takes your risk.

When I bought Rigal in the early 80s she had so much work done that BWB classified her as a new build.  Mr Stimpson didn't so she was being full surveyed every time I docked for blacking.  I soon got fed up with that.

To be fair the usual requirement is a survey every 6 years if you want to be comprehensively insured.  Both the providers I have just quoted use that interval for "historics".

4 minutes ago, frangar said:

I was told GJW have a good idea with historical craft. I agree Towergate have gone quickly downhill. Shame as I too was with them from when it was stimpsons. I'm now with GJW after several personal recommendations 

I have never heard of GJW offering cover on "historics".  Interesting - one to ask at next renewal maybe?

1 hour ago, Darrenroberts said:

Hi there i was wondering if any one could help me. Iam trying to find an insurance company for my ex working narrow boat. She was made in 1898 and so far iam not having much luck finding a company due to her age. Can any one recommend a company that cover historic boats? cheers. Darren

Are you looking for comprehensive cover, or just the basic 3rd party cover required to licence it?

[zenataomm]

3 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

I don't think many will touch am 80 or 100 year old boat.

With Towergate it is a different, (and more expensive) policy from what you could buy for a modern boat.

To be fair the usual requirement is a survey every 6 years if you want to be comprehensively insured.  Both the providers I have just quoted use that interval for "historics".

I'm glad for you guys that there is now some common sense in the industry, there certainly wasn't thirty years ago.  However if they could come up with nonsense then they could still do it today.   Monopoly leads to uncertainty and anticipated horrors around renewal time.

[alan_fincher]

1 minute ago, zenataomm said:

Monopoly leads to uncertainty and anticipated horrors around renewal time.

The threat that a full survey and valuation may be required in future is not one to take lightly, and it could well be worth paying a higher annual cost to an insurer still prepared to accept just a hull survey.  I'm keeping my eye on this, but despite statements by certain surveyors, both companies I spoke to would still accept just a hull survey, but neither would be drawn on whether this was about to change.

(I hate dealing with insurance companies!)

[zenataomm]

1 minute ago, alan_fincher said:

(I hate dealing with insurance companies!)

Me too, and my opinion was only strengthened after working for The Prudential for a couple of years.

[koukouvagia]

3 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

The threat that a full survey and valuation may be required in future is not one to take lightly.

I'm not quite sure what is meant by a full survey.  Whenever I've had a hull survey the surveyor has also valued our boats, with the phrase "the likely sale price with willing buyer, willing seller, vacant possession and no mooring."  

Towergate has always accepted this, together with the BSS certificate.  Are you suggesting something more detailed may be required?

 

I did look around a couple of years ago to see if there were any better deals.  I tried three or four possibilities and all came up with higher - two with ridiculously higher prices.  Also, even though I had a one year old hull survey, all wanted the boat re-surveying.  

No firm was prepared to take into consideration that I'd never had a claim in over thirty years' boating.

Better the devil you know.  So I've stuck with Towergate.

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Darrenroberts said:

Hi there i was wondering if any one could help me. Iam trying to find an insurance company for my ex working narrow boat. She was made in 1898 and so far iam not having much luck finding a company due to her age. Can any one recommend a company that cover historic boats? cheers. Darren

I have spoken with the insurance brokers who handle my boats and one of them has confirmed they would insure a "1898 historic ex-working narrowboat" 'fully comp' if it has had a survey 'recently' (within the last 3 years), or you were prepared to have one done if it is not 'recent'.

 They would be looking for a 'new survey' then every 6 years.

 

Contact Porthcawl Insurance on 01656 784 866

I said I had no more details and that you would call if interested.

 

Hope that helps.

[Darrenroberts]

Thanks for all the responses guys, I've finally got hold of collidge and partners they where very friendly, and seam to have a good relationship with braunston marina (where my boat is) and the engineer i used. all in all for third party insurance £160 which i thought seamed good. I haven't gone for any extras as shes very much a project boat and me and my parnter don't have any of the modern gizzmos worth steeling. My only concern is my tools as iam a cabinet maker and collidge and partners wont cover trade tools only ones for personal use. i guess ill have to look at separate cover for that. 

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I have spoken with the insurance brokers who handle my boats and one of them has confirmed they would insure a "1898 historic ex-working narrowboat" 'fully comp' if it has had a survey 'recently' (within the last 3 years), or you were prepared to have one done if it is not 'recent'.

 They would be looking for a 'new survey' then every 6 years.

 

Contact Porthcawl Insurance on 01656 784 866

I said I had no more details and that you would call if interested.

 

Hope that helps.

thanks for your research Alan i really appreciate that but I've just got it sorted. ill make a note of Porthcawl for the future. 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Darrenroberts said:

all in all for third party insurance £160

If you had said you only wanted 3rd party there are dozens of companies who would insure you as age is immaterial.

[Darrenroberts]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If you had said you only wanted 3rd party there are dozens of companies who would insure you as age is immaterial.

i rang a few but over the phone as soon as i mentioned the age they said they wernt interested even though i have a recent survey, strange???

[Alan de Enfield]

I have just spoken with another insurer and for 3rd party only it would be £48

Based on a marina mooring, 58 year old owner, 119 year old boat, £125 excess in the event of a claim.

 

Shame you didn't explain you only wanted 3rd party

Too late now tho'.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Alan de Enfield

[pete harrison]

1 hour ago, Darrenroberts said:

Hi there i was wondering if any one could help me. Iam trying to find an insurance company for my ex working narrow boat. She was made in 1898 and so far iam not having much luck finding a company due to her age. Can any one recommend a company that cover historic boats? cheers. Darren

Out of interest which boat do you own ?

[zenataomm]

12 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

I'm not quite sure what is meant by a full survey.  Whenever I've had a hull survey the surveyor has also valued our boats, with the phrase "the likely sale price with willing buyer, willing seller, vacant possession and no mooring."  

 Are you suggesting something more detailed may be required?

 

I'm not suggesting anything, I was merely describing what it was happening in the 80s when there was really no where else to go for ex working boats.

I might suggest though that a survey for valuation or selling/buying might concentrate on different areas, perhaps not ..... I don't know.

The full survey I was being told I needed included all the things that the current BSS tend to look at as well as the peculiarities of elm bottoms, wooden kelsons and ancient installations such as balance pipes on fuel tanks which may or may not have soldered joints.  Every time they seemed to delight in coming up with ever ridiculous scenarios. 

Near the end of my time with ex working boats, they suggested that following the Zeebrugge disaster (Herald of Free Enterprise) they would require evidence of a hard wired alarm system to warn the steerer that the bow doors weren't closed securely!!!!!  They blamed the EEC (as it was then I believe ) introducing new rules for that one. And then shortly afterwards, because I had commercial licenses on my motor and butty they wanted to know how well equipped my forward lookout was in order to prevent a repeat of The Bow Bell running over the passenger boat Marchioness catastrophe.

It was around about then I shifted insurers in order to pay more but extract myself from The Alice in Blunderland World I seemed to have allowed myself to enter.