Not got a boat, yet

[LadyG]

30 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I wouldn't bet on that. 

If you are going to quote me please don't edit so it changes the essence, if you take the cost of fish and chips in Morissons as a financial indicator, they cost about 10% more in Scotland than in Sheffield, and fruit and veg in season are a lot cheaper in Evesham than in Edinburgh.

[rusty69]

All boats are Ggggggggrrrrrrreeeeeaaaaat

 

 

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

If you are going to quote me please don't edit so it changes the essence, if you take the cost of fish and chips in Morissons as a financial indicator, they cost about 10% more in Scotland than in Sheffield, and fruit and veg in season are a lot cheaper in Evesham than in Edinburgh.

Ok

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

Some of these are not boat costs but living costs. 300 quid for internet? Maintenance seems high, diesel seems low

Yes, well I think my actual budget for is for fuel, and a lot depends on heating type, I thought £345 for travel diesel,  thats about ten hours per week for six months of the year, and 5 hours per week for six months, I am open to negotiation on that one

Blacking and haul out is every two years, its going to be £600, and that alone is £300 per annum.

Professional paint job is about £6K, needs done every 15 years, that s £400 pa.

Upgrades, I have just upgraded my kitchen at home, it was about 5K, and I did a fair bit of work myself.

Edited May 21, 2017 by LadyG

[LadyG]

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

You are rather missing my point. You won't actually get to know what is a suitable boat and what is unsuitable until you have lived on one for a year at least. Your first boat WILL be a mistake no matter how much 'research' you do in advance. But getting out there and looking at a dozen or so boats will develop your thinking and perception of what you want no end.

I can pretty much guarantee your specification for the perfect liveaboard will change/develop a little with every boat you view. Viewing ANY boat is never a  waste of time. The boat I now own and love is miles away from the specification I'd previously prepared and I only viewed it out of idle curiosity because I was in the area looking at the perfect boat, which simply wasn't. Get off your PC and go and LOOK at lots of boats. Whilton is a good place to start. 100 boats for sale and to look at, all in the same place. It's a wonderful boat-buying university. 

 

Getting my porridge spurtle out here MrB, the tactic you used led to a failure to find the right boat

Edited May 21, 2017 by LadyG

[LadyG]

2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Air cooled engine so will be noisy and no engine derived hot water. No mention or signs of an instant gas water heater (like a Morco) so must use the Eberspacher for hot water - no wonder its new, none of that type of heater will take kindly to just heating the hot water unless turned off as soon as it starts to cycle.

Depends upon which air cooled Lister it is but 30 hp under a cruiser deck?

Again no hull spec so could have a 6mm bottom plate, doubt its 10mm. No mention of a recent survey I could see so very much "let the buyer beware". I suspect it 10 grand over priced for what it is.

What adds do not say is as important as what they do.

UPDATE

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192168545519?euid=ad92915308b34bd086d1b5c80514bfa3&bu=43105217050&cp=1&sojTags=bu=bu

I agree with the pricing and apreciate comments on the engine,  however it was surveyed, and some mods made, but the hull was stated to be better than most modern boats. The survey is available.

You have to remember that older boats used British Steel, modern boats use Chinese, so they need to be thicker.

The owners state they removed the SF stove due to dirt, the whole boat has obviously been re fitted out in the last few years.

I am not sure what you mean about 30hp under a cruiser deck?

I am not keen on a cruiser type, but that is something I can only decide after viewing a few.

Edited May 21, 2017 by LadyG

[LadyG]

I ll need to cut out the editing, I thought it was easier than more and more posts, and I can't find out how to do multi quotes.

[WotEver]

45 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I am not sure what you mean about 30hp under a cruiser deck?

It's a 30hp noisy air cooled engine not in an engine room but under your feet in a hot engine compartment. 

[WotEver]

48 minutes ago, LadyG said:

The survey is available.

You're more trusting than me if you'll put any faith in a seller's survey. Pay for one yourself or don't, it's your choice, but take any survey supplied by the seller with a hefty portion of salt.  

[LadyG]

6 minutes ago, WotEver said:

It's a 30hp noisy air cooled engine not in an engine room but under your feet in a hot engine compartment. 

Yes, but i can insulate the engine compartment, I assume the engine will be OK, its not ideal of course, they would run better if kept cool.

1 minute ago, WotEver said:

You're more trusting than me if you'll put any faith in a seller's survey. Pay for one yourself or don't, it's your choice, but take any survey supplied by the seller with a hefty portion of salt.  

I can 't win, if I don't ask for a survey and other details/paperwork, I am castigated, if I  do I am called a bit of a sucker

I did not say I would not have it surveyed.

Edited May 21, 2017 by LadyG

[WotEver]

Just now, LadyG said:

Yes, but i can insulate the engine compartment, I assume the engine will be OK, its not ideal of course, they would run better if kept cool.

So already you're (considering) buying a boat which has an obvious problem. More than one of course: no engine-derived hot water or instantaneous heater either. For around £10k more than it's worth. 

[LadyG]

4 minutes ago, WotEver said:

So already you're (considering) buying a boat which has an obvious problem. More than one of course: no engine-derived hot water or instantaneous heater either. For around £10k more than it's worth. 

No.

I am researching.

It is your opinion it is overpriced by £10K, fair enough, but if it were in original condition, ie never upgraded, it would have to be worth a lot less.

Half the people on here, most of whom are not liveaboards, and another lot who change boats with the seasons, tell me to view, when I consider viewing I am told it is a bad idea.

Edited May 21, 2017 by LadyG

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

No.

I am researching.

So why are you considering insulating under the deck? What has that to do with research?

6 minutes ago, LadyG said:

if I don't ask for a survey and other details/paperwork, I am castigated

Ask for as much info as they have, sure. Just don't place too much faith in a seller's survey. 

[LadyG]

5 minutes ago, WotEver said:

So why are you considering insulating under the deck? What has that to do with research?

If there is a problem with the engine, and lets face it, it is probably the original engine, and the problem is noise / vibration, then I am essentially asking, why not just insulate. 

the answer could be:

1] no need as it has not been done by all previous owners [or perhaps it has]

2] insulating might stop vibration but would overheat the engine compartment, to the detriment of the engine.

There will be answers which may relate to other boats .............. so that is  "research"

Edited May 21, 2017 by LadyG

[The Grumpy Triker]

9 minutes ago, LadyG said:

No.

I am researching.

It is your opinion it is overpriced by £10K, fair enough, but if it were in original condition, ie never upgraded, it would have to be worth a lot less.

Half the people on here, most of whom are not liveaboards, and another lot who change boats with the seasons, tell me to view, when I consider viewing I am told it is a bad idea.

I was asking a similar thing only 5-6 weeks back as I had an unusual wait for a survey due to recommended surveyor availability.

40% said go for it without if you think it looks ok and particularly if there is a semi-recent survey available...but sort your own out soon, the others said don't - I thought, if I was buying a car and the seller gave me an RAC survey of the car from 1-2yrs prior, would I trust it to be still valid?

i have 2 weeks of my wait for a survey left 

...and it will be my live-aboard......do what YOU think is right but take a few pauses away from the chat to think about what experienced boaters are telling you as a rule....no a must, but keep it all in mind.

it is YOUR money, but I have had a huge amount of help, despite getting varied opinions 

[Neil2]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

UPDATE

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192168545519?euid=ad92915308b34bd086d1b5c80514bfa3&bu=43105217050&cp=1&sojTags=bu=bu

I agree with the pricing and apreciate comments on the engine,  however it was surveyed, and some mods made, but the hull was stated to be better than most modern boats. The survey is available.

You have to remember that older boats used British Steel, modern boats use Chinese, so they need to be thicker.

The owners state they removed the SF stove due to dirt, the whole boat has obviously been re fitted out in the last few years.

I am not sure what you mean about 30hp under a cruiser deck?

I am not keen on a cruiser type, but that is something I can only decide after viewing a few.

If you are even considering that boat, at that price, with respect you have learned nothing at all from this thread.

Who gave you that nonsense about modern/old steel by the way?

 

[WotEver]

34 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

Who gave you that nonsense about modern/old steel by the way?

It was in the details of one of the boats that OP linked to. 

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

Half the people on here, most of whom are not liveaboards, and another lot who change boats with the seasons, tell me to view, when I consider viewing I am told it is a bad idea.

I see that you've edited your post and added some more.

I think you will find that everyone is telling you to view. What everyone is also telling you is to view loads, which a trip to a marina with 100+ boats for sale would enable you to do. Not to view just a small handful that you've looked at online. 

[LadyG]

38 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

 

Who gave you that nonsense about modern/old steel by the way?

 

I have seen this on several threads, quotes from different surveyors, something about Cu content. Of course we know British Steel was the best, and the most expensive, obviously.

[WotEver]

Lipstick and blusher might make a boat look pretty but what's the hull like? How does the layout flow? Do you have more than one system for heating and hot water? What are the battery charging systems? What battery monitoring does it have?

A boat that's spent its life in a marina might not be very well fitted out for CC, however pretty the fitout might appear. It might also have developed serious hull problems that only a current survey could highlight. 

[system 4-50]

"You have to remember that older boats used British Steel, modern boats use Chinese, so they need to be thicker."

I don't believe this. With the benefit of no technical knowledge whatsoever. 

[LadyG]

13 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I see that you've edited your post and added some more.

I think you will find that everyone is telling you to view. What everyone is also telling you is to view loads, which a trip to a marina with 100+ boats for sale would enable you to do. Not to view just a small handful that you've looked at online. 

But there may be 100 boats, most are not liveaboards and in good condition, I can't view 100, I have to get it down to about seven [a magic memory number], and I cannot trust the salesperson not to tell me to view something he wants shot of. As a female, I am well used to the rather old fashioned idea that all females are technophobic and suckers. If I protest, I am told I am told I am oversensitive! 

So, viewing experts, how long does it take to view a boat.

In my own experience I take about 2 mins to reject one, and an hour or more if I am interested.

7 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Lipstick and blusher might make a boat look pretty but what's the hull like? How does the layout flow? Do you have more than one system for heating and hot water? What are the battery charging systems? What battery monitoring does it have?

A boat that's spent its life in a marina might not be very well fitted out for CC, however pretty the fitout might appear. It might also have developed serious hull problems that only a current survey could highlight. 

I know, ty.

PS I am not trying  to multi-post, but it seems to do something weird if I post quickly.

Edited May 21, 2017 by LadyG

[rusty69]

4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

But there may be 100 boats, most are not liveaboards and in good condition, I can't view 100, I have to get it down to about seven [a magic memory number], and I cannot trust the salesperson not to tell me to view something he wants shot of. As a female, I am well used to the rather old fashioned idea that all females are technophobic and suckers. If I protest, I am told I am told I am oversensitive! 

So, viewing experts, how long does it take to view a boat.

In my own experience I take about 2 mins to reject one, and an hour or more if I am interested.

I know, ty.

PS I am not trying  to multi-post, but it seems to do something weird if I post quickly.

Sounds about right. 

[LadyG]

16 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Lipstick and blusher might make a boat look pretty but what's the hull like? How does the layout flow? Do you have more than one system for heating and hot water? What are the battery charging systems? What battery monitoring does it have?

A boat that's spent its life in a marina might not be very well fitted out for CC, however pretty the fitout might appear. It might also have developed serious hull problems that only a current survey could highlight. 

I would prefer to have these  questions asked and answered before viewing, and thus have it in writing, not wasting my time looking at things which are not suitable, that is the whole theme of my posts.

No point in viewing a boat that is in poor condition, ie has not been well looked after, as I do NOT want a project, I want something that has had tlc by a knowedgeable owner. No nasty surprises.

The best way to find out about the hull is to have a hull survey, its not possible to tell too much by viewing, but I don't bother with derelicts, ie obviously rusty buckets from photographs. I also ask for paperwork to show evidence of ownership before I view.

Edited May 21, 2017 by LadyG

[LadyG]

I have just done a search at Whilton, they have only ONE  boat that meets my criteria [trad, 30-50feet],for sale. They have about eight on the books, and all pretty unispiring, most under offer, apparently.

Edited May 21, 2017 by LadyG

[Captain Pegg]

I am with Neil2 and system 4-50 on the steel issue.

There is a lot of rubbish spouted on this subject on the forum so from now on I shall always challenge it as LadyG seems to have taken some of it as read. I suspect it was the poster who stated 'post-2000 boats are made with Chinese steel' or something to that effect.

Steel is steel as far as 99% of narrowboats are concerned. Age and provenance make little to no difference in the composition and the quality issues over time are of very little consequence to narrowboats which in terms of structural capabilities are massively over engineered.

I don't consider myself an expert but I do have some very relevant professional experience and work with some genuine metallurgical experts. There are a few others on the forum who clearly know some stuff as well.

I suspect no-one knows where the steel from which their boat was fabricated was manufactured and I doubt you need to. It's how it has been maintained and protected that matters. I have heard credible people claim modern boats look worse when stripped back to metal but if that is the case it is the environment and the protective coatings that have changed.

In the world of heavy engineering modern steel is better than old steel (because of better manufacturing methods) and I think it may still be possible there is not a single narrowboat on the water made of Chinese steel (certainly for those made in the UK and probably for the EU). But I don't know that and I suspect no-one ever will.

JP

 

 

Edited May 21, 2017 by Captain Pegg