Overfilled the leisure batteries.

[Jak]

I'm thinking much the same. No shore power. Cheapo sealed batteries taken care of as well as I can (thanks for the wealth of info on here) binned every couple of years. Not a big cost vs. All the othe boat stuff!

[Guest]

I'm thinking much the same. No shore power. Cheapo sealed batteries taken care of as well as I can (thanks for the wealth of info on here) binned every couple of years. Not a big cost vs. All the othe boat stuff!

I may have to rethink my strategy when we live on full time, but as semi-livaboards we have followed a similar regime. Usually get up to 3 years out of cheapos.

[mrsmelly]

I may have to rethink my strategy when we live on full time, but as semi-livaboards we have followed a similar regime. Usually get up to 3 years out of cheapos.

Hi Stan

 

As you know we are full time and have been for many years. We are off grid and get 2/3 years out of a set of cheapos which we charge daily and try not to go below 12.2. but hey ho if occasionaly we do go below its not a big deal. If you get 3 years without hassle then you are doing ok as thats a cheap way of doing it. A couple of small solars do help a little in the summer and are I believe worth the few bob they cost.

[RD1]

Well I was going to start correcting misconceptions on this thread, but I thought better of it so I might as well join in with the spirtit of the Thread.

 

 

Try this...not all electrons are the same, some orbit atoms of hydrogen and oxygen, the basic components of water that is broken down during the charging process. Now we all know, for electricity to flow, you need a voltage and a current, then electrons flow in the circuit, unfortunately the electrons leaving the battery flow through copper, and we all know copper is very conductive, and these copper derived electrons go back to the battery, being copper based they conduct electricity, and discharge the battery from within, not at all good, this is why the battery eventually discharges.

 

What you need is insulating conductors connected to the battery, say made totally of plastic, this way, any return electrons that get back to the battery will not be conductive, as they have not been in contact with copper, so the battery should not be discharged, and if you use the same plastic conductors to charge the battery, this will prevent gassing, and you will have no water loss.

 

Quite simple really.

[Guest]

Hi Stan

 

As you know we are full time and have been for many years. We are off grid and get 2/3 years out of a set of cheapos which we charge daily and try not to go below 12.2. but hey ho if occasionaly we do go below its not a big deal. If you get 3 years without hassle then you are doing ok as thats a cheap way of doing it. A couple of small solars do help a little in the summer and are I believe worth the few bob they cost.

Cheers Tim, we aren't doing too bad with batteries then . We added solar last spring with a 200W folding kit with a basic controller. Probably not the most cost effective way of doing the job, but fitted in nicely with our needs. We will increase this in spring. We have been amazed at the difference that just 200W of solar has made, meaning that we can stay places longer without running the genny for hours.

[Murflynn]

most 'sealed' batteries aren't.

 

they have a label or sticker, which when removed allows you to insert a screwdriver in the gap between a cover panel and the body of the battery, so you can lever off the cover panel, then the cells can be topped up.

[system 4-50]

Most battery problems can be sorted out by applying simple homeopathic principles:

Obtain some bad electrons from a dead battery.

Dilute them down by a factor of 100. This is awkward as you have to do the dilution with standard strength battery acid, not water.

Repeat this dilution process 10 times.

Top up your battery with this mix.

The concentration of badness due to the bad electrons will be so low as not to harm your battery, but their presence will be sufficient to trigger good behaviour in the rest of the electrons.

Simples.

PS It also helps if the wind is in the west when you do this.

[Arthur Brown]

All electrical things run on smoke, when the smoke escapes they stop working.

[Alan de Enfield]

What appears not to have been mentioned, is the need for extreme care when replacing the electrons - you need to ensure that you put the 'right ones' in the 'right holes'.

 

A standard 12v battery has 6 cells - the three nearest the + terminal (the positive / red one) must only be filled by 'positrons' whilst the three closest to the - (negative / black) terminal must only be filled by 'negitrons'.

 

Failure to adhere to this can have a severe debilitating effect of the life expectancy of the battery.

 

If you have one of the batteries that have both + & - terminals at the 'same end' then you may as well just give up - unless you are prepared to invest in a positron / negitron detector. These are very difficult to come by and extremely expensive, however once purchased you will wonder how you ever managed without one.

[mrsmelly]

I reckon most of you lot have had too much sauce this christmas

[MtB]

Reading my recently purchased copy of "Exchange and Mart", I noticed an intriguing advert.

 

Apparently I can save the cost of replacing my 'dead batteries' and return them to brand new condition by purchasing these 'revolutionary battery recovery pills' and dropping one into each cell.

 

This is very encouraging news so I thought the board would benefit from knowing about this wonderful new product.

 

They cost 2/9d for a pack of 24.

 

Apparently if they don't work at first, all one needs to do is purchase more and keep dropping them in....

[mrsmelly]

Reading my recently purchased copy of "Exchange and Mart", I noticed an intriguing advert.

 

Apparently I can save the cost of replacing my 'dead batteries' and return them to brand new condition by purchasing these 'revolutionary battery recovery pills' and dropping one into each cell.

 

This is very encouraging news so I thought the board would benefit from knowing about this wonderful new product.

 

They cost 2/9d for a pack of 24.

 

Apparently if they don't work at first, all one needs to do is purchase more and keep dropping them in....

 

Now u r showing your age I too remember buying those for the battery on my HB viva knowing they wouldnt work but buying some ( just in case )

[MtB]

On a more serious note, I once bought four of the second hand Delphi "Freedom Marine Stationary" batteries that Vince here used to sell.

 

They were excellent, surviving several years of abuse from me (about five, I'd guess). Their resistance to abuse was highlighted when I replaced them with a new set of el cheapos and wrecked them in about four months by treating the new batts in exactly the same way.

 

So I purchased a second set of cheapos which I took more care of, but still not not enough care and they were dead in about a year.

 

I still have two of Freedom batteries serving perfectly well as my engine starter batteries.

 

Two points arise.

 

1) Received wisdom on here about how to look after batteries is obviously not the whole story

 

2) I think there is a lot of confusion between AGM batteries (which I suspect the Freedoms are) and sealed for life batteries.

 

 

 

.

Edited December 27, 2016 by Mike the Boilerman

[Neil Smith]

I have auto fill caps connected to a hose lock garden sprayer so should never run batteries low of water unless the bottle runs out.

 

Neil

[RD1]

Take care with anything bought with a "lifetime guarantee" a friend of mine bought a watch, it said it came with a lifetime guarantee, which means it will last your lifetime. The last watch you will ever buy.

 

It ran for 10 years with no problem, then one day it broke down, and slashed his wrist.

 

 

I think these lithium batteries manufactured for use in laptops, mobile phones etc, must have a lifetime guarantee too, as they are non replaceable, and when they eventually fail, they catch fire

 

On a serious note, and there have been some good information on this thread, but I find it difficult to find it lol...,

Some basic advice to get the most from your batteries, well from my experience anyway...

Never regularly take the battery below 80% of it's capacity, just to clarify, only take out a maximum of 20%

Charge as soon as possible to maximum capacity.

Standard Car alternators, if used on boats are not designed to fully charge a battery, they are designed to get bulk charge into a battery as soon as possible.

When charging never regularly exceed a battery voltage of 14.5 volts, this is generally the start of serious gassing, and you will loose water from the batteries and produce large amounts of explosive gas from the batteries. So make sure the battery compartment is well ventilated.

If you smell hydrogen sulphide ie bad eggs around your batteries, then the batteries are well goosed, I refrained from giving the electronic descriptive term for goosed lol you may also find a black deposit on the filler plugs, a small amount is normal on older batteries, but if more on one cell than the other means a faulty cell within the battery.

Personally I don't like leaving batteries connected in parallel for long periods of time, if there is just one bad cell in a battery, then the other healthy batteries will discharge through the faulty battery, thus discharging the good batteries below 80% and shortening their lives, or in fact rendering them scrap too.

If I had to parallel batteries up, then I would replace them all at the same time with identical batteries from the same batch if possible.

 

These multi stage mains chargers are very good, I have 2 numax 10 amp chargers one for each of my 90Ah batteries. However, they get confused if both batteries are connected up to ship power at the same time, so when these are charging, I only have one battery isolator connected to give supply to the boat. I have a panel mounted digital voltmeter monitoring each battery too.

Far better to know what's going on.

 

Hope it helps.

I just added two charts, the first is for starter batteries, the second for leisure batteries. I printed a copy of the leisure battery one and covered it in clear waterproof tape and is on display in several places, one near the helm.

Note ambient temperature affects how a battery is charged and it's terminal voltage.

When monitoring battery voltage, they should be off line, and not been charged or discharged for at least an hour to get best results.

Edited December 28, 2016 by RD1

[Afloat]

 

A standard 12v battery has 6 cells - the three nearest the + terminal (the positive / red one) must only be filled by 'positrons' whilst the three closest to the - (negative / black) terminal must only be filled by 'negitrons'.

 

 

 

Now I know you lot are messing around, as Negitron is one of those Transformer robot thingies!!

[Murflynn]

 

 

Never regularly take the battery below 80% of it's capacity, just to clarify, only take out a maximum of 20%

not practical for most of us.

 

maybe applicable to engine starter batteries, but leisure batteries should be good for 50%.

[Alan de Enfield]

......... but leisure batteries should be good for 50%.

 

Which is why I would suggest that the 'chart' posted is background coloured 'green' (for OK) down to 50%, then 'amber', then 'Red' as the SoC decreases

[WotEver]

Way too many wild generalisations in that post such as the 'never charge at above 14.5V' advice.

not practical for most of us.

 

maybe applicable to engine starter batteries, but leisure batteries should be good for 50%.

And semi-tractions to 20% and tractions even lower...

 

More poor advice.

[MtB]

A lot of that post is half right.

 

Figuring out which half is the hard bit....

[mrsmelly]

A lot of that post is half right.

 

Figuring out which half is the hard bit....

 

Its probably true that not taking them below 80 percent is good for the batteries but for cripes sake thats alright for hobby boaters but not full timers and anyway plenty of places sell batteries so easy enough to replace.

[RD1]

There are some folks who say there is no such thing as a " Leisure battery" they are basically all starter batteries so 80% is fine.

 

I suggested 80% so that you can get as much life out of the battery as possible certainly discharge them regularly to 50%, they will work fine, but don't expect as long a life as if discharging them to 80%

You risk sulphation if you leave batteries in a 50% discharged state.

Well sulphation will be worse the less charge that is in the battery when left for long periods.

 

It's a balance, discharge state, vs no. of cycles, discharge more... less cycles, shorter life.

I used 80% as the batteries are at less risk of sulphation.

 

It's your choice... replace them every 2-3 years, or with care could last 7-10 all depends on the application, battery quality, but most of all, the charging regime. Always leave them as fully charged as possible.

 

Have a look here.

http://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/articles/view.asp?id=722

Edited December 28, 2016 by RD1

[MtB]

There are some folks who say there is no such thing as a " Leisure battery" they are basically all starter batteries so 80% is fine.

 

I suggested 80% so that you can get as much life out of the battery as possible certainly discharge them regularly to 50%, they will work fine, but don't expect as long a life as if discharging them to 80%

You risk sulphation if you leave batteries in a 50% discharged state.

Well sulphation will be worse the less charge that is in the battery when left for long periods.

 

It's a balance, discharge state, vs no. of cycles, discharge more... less cycles, shorter life.

I used 80% as the batteries are at less risk of sulphation.

 

It's your choice... replace them every 2-3 years, or with care could last 7-10 all depends on the application, battery quality, but most of all, the charging regime. Always leave them as fully charged as possible.

 

Have a look here.

http://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/articles/view.asp?id=722

 

 

A lot of either bad or incomplete advice on that site.

[mrsmelly]

There are some folks who say there is no such thing as a " Leisure battery" they are basically all starter batteries so 80% is fine.

 

I suggested 80% so that you can get as much life out of the battery as possible certainly discharge them regularly to 50%, they will work fine, but don't expect as long a life as if discharging them to 80%

You risk sulphation if you leave batteries in a 50% discharged state.

Well sulphation will be worse the less charge that is in the battery when left for long periods.

 

It's a balance, discharge state, vs no. of cycles, discharge more... less cycles, shorter life.

I used 80% as the batteries are at less risk of sulphation.

 

It's your choice... replace them every 2-3 years, or with care could last 7-10 all depends on the application, battery quality, but most of all, the charging regime. Always leave them as fully charged as possible.

 

Have a look here.

http://www.ukcampsite.co.uk/articles/view.asp?id=722

 

But surely they MUST be Trojans nothing else will do surely not?

[Neil Smith]

Mine are full traction 2 volt cells and I was told by the dealer you wont harm them if you always take them to 50% and on occasions much lower.

 

Neil